Friend and I not speaking - who should apologise?

[AudacityBaby]

I’ve NC for this but a regular user.

I’m infertile and my friend has a toddler and a baby.

I was complaining to her about a work policy that was introduced in March 2020 that allowed those with caring responsibilities to halve their hours on full pay, whilst expecting those without caring responsibilities to pick up the normal workload and additional work created by COVID for no extra pay. A great policy but a pretty unbalanced impact.

The trade off we were told was that everyone working half hours would have to use their annual leave so that those working overtime could be prioritised for longer periods of rest. The problem is that this wasn’t enforced by the employer and now those who are back are insisting on using their annual leave for large stretches of the summer to cover childcare. Which is fair enough, but once again those without are being told that they’ll need to cover and that their break can be September onwards.

Anyway… I was saying to my friend that I’m knackered now and don’t know whether it’s time to look for another job. She said that in her view people with kids are doing something useful for society and therefore the role of those without is to assist them in doing that. I was surprised and said that I didn’t consider my role in life was to help parents, particularly - I’ll help others of course, that’s part of being in a society, but that’s not my purpose! I have my own things too.

She said that childless people aren’t contributing to society long-term and therefore they should be expected to help out like this in times of crisis and not try and attack parents who are doing the best they can and providing for everyone’s future. She also said it’s anti-feminist to refuse to help out as the COVID burden fell mostly on women with children.

I told her how hurt I was at how she apparently viewed my life and we’re not currently speaking. AIBU to be so upset? Is this just something I should chalk up to everyone having had a horrible year and perhaps saying insensitive things? Or is this a sign that we’ve outgrown each other? We’re not as close as we used to be and maybe we just don’t see things the same way.

And no, this isn’t a reverse - I hate the bloody things!

YABU - friend has a point / you’re being petty and need to just let it g
YANBU - friend was insensitive and should be the first to reach out

She sounds absolutely horrible. I would not apologise or repair the friendship.

@HunterHearstHelmsley Would you mind linking me to your thread? Would be interested in the advice!

Thank you so much for your words. I appreciate it.

She’s a dick head. I wouldn’t be reaching out to her any time soon.

Don't you go apologising OP 🌸

Is she serious?! Some people are unbelievable!

Yanbu and if my friend aaid that to me I would be seriously reevaluating the friendship as well. I think she should be apologising to you and has a bloody cheek.

That's a crap policy and deeply unfair - possibly challenge under discrimination laws

The work policy is crap.

Your friend is batshit.

Really awful work policy. Totally unfair.
Possibly a kind gesture for a few weeks but over a year? And now the school holidays too?
What about next school holidays when the parents have been used to being prioritised? Will you be expected to pick up the slack there too?

This is like the threads where people expect to automatically get Xmas off just because they have kids. As though other people don't want to see family too.
I would be very angry with work. And your friend. But mostly work to be honest.

Your friend sounds like an entitled self righteous ***. Just because you have kids doesn’t mean everyone else has owes you!

I think you might consider that your friend maybe has some issues that made her extra emotional. What she said was insensitive
and absolute rubbish but looking after a baby and toddler (and probably working) is fucking knackering and so when she heard someone who doesn’t have kids saying that they’re tired as they haven’t had holiday, then she might have just got carried away with her emotional reaction and then said some very stupid things. Maybe she looks at her life now, compares it with yours (she may assume you have chosen not to have children) and wonders why she put herself in this position? It has been an utterly shit time to have very young kids without being able to get out, see people, join groups, have family support. etc. She might be at the end of her tether and feeling so resentful that she has no empathy for anyone else right now. If you haven’t told her that you’re infertile, you’re probably not close enough for her to tell you if she has PND for example.
I would be willing to give her the benefit of the doubt and let her have another chance, but only one.

2. It is not the sole job of the childless or the childfree to prop up the lives of those who have kids

This. If you choose to have kids, think about how you're going to look after them before you have them. Don't expect the world to bend over and let you dictate everything.

Your friend is one of those assholes that thinks because they had children they are most important now. This attitude is unlikely to change, ditch her.

I know some woman who think once they have kids they know all the answers. In fact they become smug and think that having a child makes them better. Some woman in this situation look down on single or childless woman. Being honest the whole covid situation has put pressure on everyone in different ways.
When you told your friend about your whole job situation and how the people with children were getting the better part of the deal she could have said something like it hard when you been carrying the load, doing extra overtime ect. Instead she as much as told you that your life was less important than the people with kids and that because she had kids she is contributing more to society.

At this stage I be thinking back to anything else she said or did in the past. You might find that she did/said thing in the past that you let go when you should have pulled her up on. You might not share her views on certain things and keep your mouth shut if these things come up.
Only you know the back story. Maybe you might decide to give her a final chance to improve things between you or decide to just become aquantices rather than friends.
I think your situation I would leave things for a few days and then arrange to meet her. I would tell her that what she said to you was very insulating and why it was. I let her realise that she has to apologise and make an effort to keep your friendship. If she is unwilling or unable to this then end the friendship.

Your “friend” is an entitled arse. Id be very angry if someone told me all that rubbish.

Your workplace is also totally out of order.

I have voted you’re not unreasonable but suspect there is more behind her position

Firstly she thinks you’re childless through choice. Secondly she’s had a hard time of it herself

But, the role of people with no kids is clearly not just to support those who do. It’s a ludicrous thing to say.

I suspect you were both sensitive and it was one of those discussions that went in a way neither intended.

Personally I’d struggle to apologise or reach out though. Because from the way it’s phrased you’re not in the wrong, but the actual words you used may have been different, and what prompted her response.

Firstly she thinks you’re childless through choice. Secondly she’s had a hard time of it herself

Yes I agree - it’s been very difficult for people with children - but she could have just said this. You could have both exchanged experiences about the different ways in which this last 18 months has been tough for EVERYONE. Your friend could have empathised with your burnout @AudacityBaby and you could have listened to her difficulties confined with children.

That’s what friendship is.

But for her to go on about how childless people basically have no purpose or value in the world ...

That is - well, unspeakably awful really.

I’d find it hard to come back from that. I think it would take me some time - six months at least before I could talk to someone who’d said that to me.

As someone who has had a permanent fall out with a 'friend' because they very clearly told me I could never fully enjoy life or love because I'm not a mother, and that it was right that I was expected to work every school holidays / Christmas etc because my life and family were not as important as people with children, I would ditch the friend altogether if I were you.

It doesn't really matter if she's had a tough time recently - she's very clearly told you how she sees things and her view will always mean she looks down on you. There's no coming back from that.

The sad thing is @IsItIorAreTheOthersCrazy a lot of people think what your friend and OP’s friend say.

She said that childless people aren’t contributing to society long-term

You could say they are not contributing to overpopulation though, which is actually helping society… Seriously though OP, I’d be upset at that comment, I feel it’s more then disagreeing. She must know your history and as someone ttc myself I would feel it was extremely insensitive and rude.

I feel like women who are happy with their choices in life would never make this comment. Sounds like someone who is trying to make herself feel better about herself, by dragging someone else down.

I don’t know some women are like this, can’t we just respect other women’s choices (and sometimes things that weren’t their choices) there’s enough out there trying to keep women down, quiet, in their place without us turning on each other too.

Not much help help I know OP but just wanted to say YANBU

Hi all!

Thanks for all your comments. We spoke this morning - she reached out. She clarified her position a bit.

She said that when covid began, the government should have made it possible for all parents to be furloughed, to protect the most vulnerable i.e. children. This didn’t happen and so employers needed to do the next best thing and ensure that parents could work as little as possible, to prioritise the welfare of their children. She said that she realised that that meant other employees would be doing more but that tiredness and burnout etc was not comparable to what parents trying to do two jobs were going through.

She also said that that’s why she thinks parents need priority for annual leave over the summer as they and their kids have borne the brunt of the pandemic and are most in need of recuperation and normality.

I again said that this put other people’s well-being last when they were also in need of a rest and she said that they simply aren’t as tired, and that as harsh as it sounds their well-being isn’t as important as more vulnerable people, children.

I asked if she thought childless people weren’t contributing or were worthless and she said no and that she shouldn’t have said that. She said that her view was that during covid, the role of childless people was to take one for the team so that the most vulnerable (parents and kids) could be prioritised.

I said that I’d found her comments hurtful and she apologised. She said that if I intended to ask work to review their annual leave policy then to not tell her as she felt that was selfish and would just set her off again. She said that her maternity leave had been ruined and what she’s most looking forward to is her partner having a long annual leave in July so if anyone at his work ruined that she’d be absolutely furious.

I said that I wasn’t sure whether we can agree to disagree on this and she said she felt the same. We left it there for now.

I’m trying to describe it as it happened as I know there’s a risk of me trying to make myself look better. I still don’t think I’m being unreasonable but I don’t think she is either.

She said that she realised that that meant other employees would be doing more but that tiredness and burnout etc was not comparable to what parents trying to do two jobs were going through.

She's like a lot of the younger women were where i work. I'm older, i had young children even before some of them came on board but over the years they moaned at me if i took a (very rare) sick kid day, moaned at me that i asked if some team dinners could be team lunches instead so i could actually go to one, moaned when at a hectic month end closing over a weekend i had to bring my 6 & 7 year olds in because my DH always worked weekends (which is why i took a supposedly 9-5 office job) and they moaned if i had to leave on time occasionally (DH usually did pick ups etc)

Roll on when they had children and i fought for them to be able to come back part-time (company was against and i persuaded them) and etc etc.Totally forgetting that I HAD BEEN THERE. No appreciation of any freaking thing that had happened to any parent when they weren't parents, and as soon as they were parents wanted everything geared to them. I soon stopped fighting for them that much and let them get on with it.

Burn out, which i have had, is horrendous. Depression is horrendous. Insomnia is horrendous. With or without children. So the parents might want to have a little think and come up with less self-centered tosh and have some consideration for all employees.

also if childless took one for the team and picked up all the slack - now is the time for those with kids to take their one for the team and let others have priority to take time off.

@Brefugee

also if childless took one for the team and picked up all the slack - now is the time for those with kids to take their one for the team and let others have priority to take time off.

This x 1000. Childless people have taken one for the team, now parents should accept they don’t also get priority for the holidays too.

She's being incredibly unreasonable and should get ahold of herself. She should, as a grown woman, being able to summon enough empathy and insight into the fact that literally EVERYONE has been through a pandemic. Not just her and people like her.

I really thought she'd get a grip and apologise to you, OP. I'm sorry to read that she didn't.

Insensitive, entitled and not worth having as a friend.