Friend and I not speaking - who should apologise?

[AudacityBaby]

I’ve NC for this but a regular user.

I’m infertile and my friend has a toddler and a baby.

I was complaining to her about a work policy that was introduced in March 2020 that allowed those with caring responsibilities to halve their hours on full pay, whilst expecting those without caring responsibilities to pick up the normal workload and additional work created by COVID for no extra pay. A great policy but a pretty unbalanced impact.

The trade off we were told was that everyone working half hours would have to use their annual leave so that those working overtime could be prioritised for longer periods of rest. The problem is that this wasn’t enforced by the employer and now those who are back are insisting on using their annual leave for large stretches of the summer to cover childcare. Which is fair enough, but once again those without are being told that they’ll need to cover and that their break can be September onwards.

Anyway… I was saying to my friend that I’m knackered now and don’t know whether it’s time to look for another job. She said that in her view people with kids are doing something useful for society and therefore the role of those without is to assist them in doing that. I was surprised and said that I didn’t consider my role in life was to help parents, particularly - I’ll help others of course, that’s part of being in a society, but that’s not my purpose! I have my own things too.

She said that childless people aren’t contributing to society long-term and therefore they should be expected to help out like this in times of crisis and not try and attack parents who are doing the best they can and providing for everyone’s future. She also said it’s anti-feminist to refuse to help out as the COVID burden fell mostly on women with children.

I told her how hurt I was at how she apparently viewed my life and we’re not currently speaking. AIBU to be so upset? Is this just something I should chalk up to everyone having had a horrible year and perhaps saying insensitive things? Or is this a sign that we’ve outgrown each other? We’re not as close as we used to be and maybe we just don’t see things the same way.

And no, this isn’t a reverse - I hate the bloody things!

YABU - friend has a point / you’re being petty and need to just let it g
YANBU - friend was insensitive and should be the first to reach out

@Babyboomtastic I wouldn’t say argument, more an emotional discussion. I said what I outlined in the original post. The way I phrased the complaint to her was that I was fed up of my well-being being prioritised last at work and that I was disappointed at not being able to take a chunk of leave over the summer as planned to recuperate. I did say that while it was necessary to take one for the team early on, that the unequal treatment had been going on for over a year was too much IMHO.

Thank you for commenting though - especially interested in those who have a different view!

Your friend is a dick and I'd rethink if I actually wanted that person in my life, if I were you.

I have more kids than most. Your friend is wrong.

I am childless and for most of my working life this has proven quite handy when it comes to taking annual leave. I don’t typically want the same time as other people and am pretty happy to hold the fort over school holidays and I have not taken summertime leave in three decades, so I wouldn’t have a problem with that in your scenario.

But the policy your employer's had was not good, in fact I cannot see any reason why it could not be said that it was discriminatory. I think the people left to shoulder the burden should have spoken up before now.

As for your friend, she is talking nonsense. Having children is not a contribution to society, we contribute to society as individuals not by having children, those children will go onto make their own contribution in due course.

To be honest, if somebody suggested that I was a parasite on society because I didn’t have children, I could no longer be around that person.

My friend doesn’t know about the infertility and is pretty blunt as a person. I’ve suspected we’ve outgrown each other and this may be the final nail as it were.

Even so, you don't have children and clearly she doesn't know why you don't unless you're telling people you just don't want any, so she should be more mindful about what she says on that subject really

Reading just the title I was prepared to think YABU, as I always think if you value a friendship, it's not worth holding on to who was right or wrong.. however, having g read the OP, your friend sounds horrible and not someone I would want to be friends with. Yes you can have friends with different opinions to your own...but your friend holds horrible and hurtful views that clearly indicate how she values you and childless people.
I would just calmly break it off tbh. I don't think theres much she can say to backtrack/come back from that
Leave her to her generous "contribution " of yet another, probably average, human to society.

I don’t know how to vote really.

Your friend was obviously unreasonable about the insensitive comments regarding childless people, especially if she knows you’re infertile. But her saying that people with children are ‘being attacked’ makes me think there was more to this for her - has she had a really tough time? A lot of shitty comments about parents being a burden on society? It seems random to say out of the blue, maybe there is more to this? Being locked down with a toddler and baby has been really hard especially trying to juggle work etc. If it was a close friend I wouldn’t just ditch her as others say. I’d try and work out if she was really struggling and be there.

Also when people without kids moan at me about being tired I do struggle sometimes to relate when I’ve been up multiple times in the night and still have to be up and Adam at 6am with the kids. It’s another level of tired. Maybe you said that when she was feeling absolutely on her knees with exhaustion.

Or maybe you two just have too many differences between you now to stay close as friends. She is in the absolute throes right now of parenting when there is so little room or energy for anything else. In a couple of years when she’s out of the fog and they are at school maybe you can be close again.

Your friend is talking absolute rubbish and I would be hurt in your position. And the work policy is short-sighted and stupid. What on earth are they planning to do when all of the childless folk have left due to their ridiculous policy.

I couldn't be friends with someone who held those beliefs. Even if she apologises, those sound like some deep rooted beliefs and I couldn't be friends with someone who believes that our greatest contribution is to have children.
Some of the greatest contributors to society have never had children. Mother Teresa
Mary Magdalene
Florence Nightingale
Rosa Parks
Joan of Arc
Isaac Newton
Plato
Lawrence of Arabia
Arthur C Clarke
The Pope
Dr. Kellogg
Dr. Seuss
Dr. Atkins
The Dalai Lama
Even Jesus Christ himself!!
How your 'friend' can say childless people aren't contributing to society long term is ludicrous and probably reflects her own belief that her children are her only contribution to society.

She wasn’t insensitive so much as a complete bitch. Your ‘friend’ is an absolute moron and I would just cut her off. After all she has made it clear that she thinks of you as a lesser person whose role in life is to act as a support human to parents. Utterly insane

@hazandduck Thank you for offering a different perspective! It may be that what you say is how she’s feeling - I hadn’t considered it from that angle. I’ll give that some more thought, thank you.

@hazandduck

Up and at 'em not Adam.

@LuaDipa I think they’re relying on people being afraid to move jobs right now - our work is stable and secure and most don’t want to rock the boat. I think the goodwill is definitely gone now though!

Your friend is a dick. On many levels. Anybody who thinks they are automatically better than other people because they have children is an idiot.

Even if she doesn’t know about your fertility issues, anybody with an inch of self awareness and perspective knows that some people without children may have fertility issues so be careful what you say.

A couple of years back one of my friends was having a hissy fit about a decision I had made that she didn’t like but had nothing to do with her. She started going on about how tired she was from having a baby, how I had pissed her off with my decision (which as I say, did not impact her), swore at me in the text. She was trying to get me to change my decision and clearly thought I should because she was a new mum. I replied to say that I was sorry she was struggling but so was I as I had just had a miscarriage and needed to make the decision I had made. That shut her up pretty quickly: some people just have zero ability to see anybody else’s perspective, and need to be made to see it. I’m not saying you should tell her about your fertility issues but you definitely shouldn’t apologise.

The work policy is bonkers but I guess it comes from a good place, so I could probably get over it but wouldn’t stand for having my holiday turned down (and in that instance I would raise it with HR).

What an insufferable prig! Insensitive and stupid. Thats a no from me.

People with kids really are not contributing to society any more than people without, this is an utterly bizarre thing for your friend to say.

The way your friend went about wording it was incredibly insensitive, what kind of friend says that to someone who is unable to have kids? She's also unreasonable by saying that childless people are obliged to help out parents.

I do agree with her about having children being a contribution to society - without a healthy and educated new generation, childless people would be screwed when they reach old age with no younger taxpayers, doctors, emergency services, scientists etc.
But that's not a reasonable point to make in the context of your work policy, which seems hugely unfair to me.

Your friend sounds like a bit of an idiot to say that. What kind of arrogance is that?!

I do agree with her about having children being a contribution to society - without a healthy and educated new generation, childless people would be screwed when they reach old age with no younger taxpayers, doctors, emergency services, scientists etc

Yawnnnn

Wow, I’d be looking for a new friend and probably a new job. Your friend is being ridiculous! Having children isn’t the only was to contribute to society. In plenty of cases, the child free may pay more income tax over the course of their adult lives and probably will ‘take less from the pot’ when you consider money spent on schools, hospital stays, child benefit etc. (not always I know - not a criticism of parents)

I think your friend was absolutely cruel in her response to you. Regardless of how she feels as that's her opinion, she should know better than to say this to someone who has battled infertility. There are many situations where my opinion differs - but would I hurt a friend just to be 'right' - absolutely not. You have nothing to apologize for. In fact I would call an end to this friendship.

I don’t think you should have to apologise first, your friend sounds insensitive at best. If you feel the friendship is dying a death anyway, I’d just let it fade away. Unfortunately some parents get so caught up in their feelings about having kids that they can’t see any other point of view. I love my children but in no way would I argue having them is the best way to contribute to society, there’s a million other ways to do that.

As others have said, from an environmental perspective, having kids is one of the worst things you can do. And no parents know how much contribution their child will make. They might do wonderful things , of course, or they might die before adulthood, become the next Ted Bundy, or end up as some seedy business man who puts flammable cladding on huge tower blocks to make a profit.
I think the fact that you already felt you were drifting apart is they key thing. I'm sure we can all be insensitive and say stupid hurtful things in the heat of the moment, but it sounds like the friendship was already on its way out. I'd just let it go.

How rude!

You pay taxes no? As a parent you will be covering her darlings costs...im child free but hear it a lot that our lives are simply assistances to parents... Id be dropping her, I want my friends to value my life as a bear minimum!

Wow, your friend is a twat.

I definitely had my child for purely selfish reasons, not as a contribution to society.

There does need to be some balance, flexibility and understanding for people with caring responsibilities but not at the expense of others. I'd be embarrassed to be continually dumping on my colleagues!

@pigeonpocket

The way your friend went about wording it was incredibly insensitive, what kind of friend says that to someone who is unable to have kids? She's also unreasonable by saying that childless people are obliged to help out parents.

I do agree with her about having children being a contribution to society - without a healthy and educated new generation, childless people would be screwed when they reach old age with no younger taxpayers, doctors, emergency services, scientists etc.
But that's not a reasonable point to make in the context of your work policy, which seems hugely unfair to me.

People without children also contribute to raising other peoples children within society via taxes etc, so it balances out..