Another reluctant ‘groom’

[Unlovedandinsecure]

Unlovedandinsecure

Hi all,

Been with my partner for a long time, have children, he owns the house but I work full time. For a long time I didn’t think about marriage as was busy working and raising my children, so I was otherwise occupied! Then a few years ago I started thinking about our future and how we are not related so cannot make decisions for each other etc. I brought this up to DP and he said something along the lines of ‘I’ll do things at my own pace’.

We had a pretty rocky patch after that as I felt he had had enough time to know what he wanted but things improved and he made noises about marriage being a possibility. Today things have come to a head and I have told him our relationship is over as he had been deceitful - he has no intention of proposing but hasn’t had the decency to let me know!

I completely understand that some people don’t want marriage and that’s fine. What isn’t fine is not being honest and upfront about it.

I’m heartbroken and angry in equal measure as if I’d been told the truth from the outset I could have made a decision as to whether to stay or go. It baffles me how you can claim to love a person but intentionally hurt them.

I know these threads are ten a penny but just wanted some advice, even if it’s to tell me how stupid I have been!

Why would you think that being on the deeds doesn't protect your children? They still inherit from you, if you outlive him.

There are so many pretzel logics to stop women from protecting themselves...

Fgs, if he's offered to put you on the deeds, take him up on it. Stop being so ridiculous.

If you think it's for your children, then you being on the deeds helps secure it for them.

If he’s willing to put you on the deed, then he’s not worried about you imminently leaving him and, by extension, isn’t looking at this in an adversarial way.

So the change in status, or some baggage about the institution of marriage, or possibly not being comfortable with a change that doesn’t really change anything?

I'd get on the deeds as soon as possible - it clearly not all you want but would give you some more protection than you currently have.

Then I'd see a solicitor together about wills and get them to spell out the implications of not being married.

So he has offered to put the house in joint names?

At which point did he say this? And it's taken you 12 pages of comments to reveal this?

It seems very odd that you don't understand the benefits of that and how it gives you some protection (ie he can't sell it unless you agree or he buys you out, should you split up.)

You need Wills to put care in place for your children if they are under 18.

How old are they?

I don't think it's a patriarchal society in the way you have described.

You made a choice to have children outside of marriage. It's far better to be married before having children especially if you aren't a high earner and rely on a man for income, or by working p/t and doing all the childcare, so you have some legal protection if the marriage fails.

[quote JinglingHellsBells]@burntoutbabe Where are you getting the info from?[/quote]
From the law degree I just finished. We did a whole year on equity and trusts and I did my exam on trusts of the family home.

The main takeaway is that people seem to spend far more in legal costs than the share of the house is ever worth.

How is refusing to be on the deeds and not writing wills, looking after your own needs? Don't cut off your nose to spite your face. Maybe you can't have what you want - marriage - but that doesn't mean you should refuse to have any financial or legal protection at all. If you have already compromised your income and savings by working part time to care for the children then you have a moral right to a share of the house whether you marry or not. If you are on the deeds and have a will (etc) you can protect that share if you don't marry, and none of it prevents you from getting married if that is what you both want.

He did ask me if I want him to add my name to the house deeds and that is something for me to consider but to be honest I see the house as my children’s inheritance and not a cash asset for us.

So where do you want to live if he dies young? He hasn't written a will and you aren't on the deeds. Whatever you assume your children will decide to do about the house, you shouldn't put them in that position of being responsible for you and potentially making you homeless.

Get on the deeds ASAP!!! 1. It gives you and your kids protection. 2. When that bit is done, he may relax and become more open to marriage. If he's a nice chap, it may be a mental block holding him back rather than just pure avarice.

Get on the deeds ASAP!!! 1. It gives you and your kids protection. 2. When that bit is done, he may relax and become more open to marriage. If he's a nice chap, it may be a mental block holding him back rather than just pure avarice.
This! ^

FGS, if he doesn’t believe in marriage he is at least not a dick, and is offering you security.

Your previous posts are a bit disingenuous.

One of my work colleagues walked away from a 30-year relationship in her mid-50s because her husband refused to marry. I can remember her saying that if money mattered more to him than their relationship then that didn't say much for the value he put on her.

He wouldn't pay her £x to preserve the relationship, she wouldn't stay in the relationship unless he paid her £x. Sounds like they both had the same opinion of the value of the relationship relative to £x. He's probably on higher moral ground though, in the sense that he's merely keeping what was his, rather than trying to take what was someone else's.

It's a tricky situation when you've been together so long - the time to get married is when you are desperately in love with that person and want to be their spouse. The intensity of love fades with time (but hopefully gets deeper), and if not being married has been the status quo I can kind of see why he has no motivation to change it. If you say you weren't bothered about marriage until a few years ago, then it's kind of you that's changed the goalposts as you chose to have children and have a life together without getting married and it seems like you were both happy with that for a long time, unless I have misunderstood.

Bottom line is though he doesn't want to marry you sadly and if that really is a deal breaker now then you are doing the right thing by telling him it's over as it sounds like you will resent this more and more as time goes by and that's no way to live. Sending you lots of positive vibes for your new life and I hope you find someone who wants the same as you.

I completely accept that it is not lovely for him to refuse to marry, after so many years and having DC together. That is however no reason to refuse to have your name put on the deeds as joint owners. And to write wills in each other's favour and POA each.

Just do that meanwhile.

We need to teach our daughters to be old fashioned and not entertain the idea of having children without marriage. Or teach them to be financially independent? Or to always ensure they could manage the house and bills alone if needed? Or to always ensure they have enough of their own money to leave if needed?

I'm sure you can take him to court for half the equity on the house for the time you have lived in it! Regardless of who's name is on it. My friend had to sell her house to do this unfortunately.

@WaterOffADucksCrack

We need to teach our daughters to be old fashioned and not entertain the idea of having children without marriage. Or teach them to be financially independent? Or to always ensure they could manage the house and bills alone if needed? Or to always ensure they have enough of their own money to leave if needed?

Except that 9 times out of 10 it's the mother who loses out on salary and career progression when there are children involved. And that if, perish the thought, the couple would prefer not to put their children in childcare before school age, then 9 times out of 10 it's the mother that does this because, guess what, they have the lower salary and the slower career progression.

@WaterOffADucksCrack

We need to teach our daughters to be old fashioned and not entertain the idea of having children without marriage. Or teach them to be financially independent? Or to always ensure they could manage the house and bills alone if needed? Or to always ensure they have enough of their own money to leave if needed?

The economy is now set up for two working parents but also a SAHM for school things and caring responsibilities.

Plus women have worse pensions and there is a pay gap. Blaming women for this seems unfair since the people that make the laws and manage the economy are mostly male.

Stop doing his washing, cooking, sex and whatnot. Off topic but why do so many posters equate sex with chores? Surely it should be a mutually enjoyable part of a relationship rather than something women do for men?

His offer to put you on the deeds changes everything. Take him up on it.

Blaming women for this seems unfair since the people that make the laws and manage the economy are mostly male. Erm I wasn't blaming women at all I was just expressing my views about what I believe parents should teach their children.

I also believe children should be taught how to treat their partner, how to respect them, equal effort put into relationships etc.

MiddlesexGirl something I found interesting (purely anecdotal) was that I was the only one out of all my friends to split things like parental leave, taking time off for when the children are ill, paying childcare costs etc. Also, many women have to be the sahp due to salaried but many still choose to even if it means years out of a good career. Many of my male friends have wanted to take parental leave and have both partners reduce working hours but have been shot down.

Marriage was always important to me, as was having children. When I started a relationship with my now husband I told him that these things were important to me, were deal breakers, and that if this wasn’t something that that he knew he wanted, then not to bother wasting my time. Very blunt but we both knew from the beginning exactly where we both wanted the relationship to go.

I just never wanted to compromise on my values. Fortunately he held the same values and we’ve been married 25 years and have two adult children. Don’t sell yourself short if that’s what matters to you.

@Muchmorethan

Would he put you on the house deeds?

Because she’s been his partner for decades, is the mother of his children and they’re supposed to be a team. Why wouldn’t he?

@WaterOffADucksCrack

We need to teach our daughters to be old fashioned and not entertain the idea of having children without marriage. Or teach them to be financially independent? Or to always ensure they could manage the house and bills alone if needed? Or to always ensure they have enough of their own money to leave if needed?

And put all the financial onus on them as well. That’s about as far from equality as you can get and it’s that misguided feminism that leaves women in the position OP’s in.

It's not always possible for a woman to continue working full time after having a child. It depends on the child, and you don't know how that will go until the child is born. For example, some babies are born with significantly more burdensome health needs than others. One of the functions of marriage is to give mothers legal rights to share in the resources of the children's father, so that the sacrifices of bearing a child don't fall only on her back. For any woman who has managed to maintain her brilliant career progression after having children, more power to you. But for lots of women, that is not how it turns out, and life is harder for those women if they do not have the legal rights of marriage.

@WaterOffADucksCrack

Stop doing his washing, cooking, sex and whatnot. Off topic but why do so many posters equate sex with chores? Surely it should be a mutually enjoyable part of a relationship rather than something women do for men?

It’s not that sex is a chore. But more the fact it’s often associated with having a wife vs being single. So having a wife means someone who will step up to do his washing (because it just goes in with the rest anyway), and someone you can ‘easily’ have sex with Vs Being single, having to do your own washing and you’ll need to find someone first if you want to have sex (even with a ONS)

Also men are often likely to notice the no sex more quickly than the lack of washing....