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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Another reluctant ‘groom’

337 replies

Unlovedandinsecure · 01/06/2021 23:33

Unlovedandinsecure

Hi all,

Been with my partner for a long time, have children, he owns the house but I work full time. For a long time I didn’t think about marriage as was busy working and raising my children, so I was otherwise occupied! Then a few years ago I started thinking about our future and how we are not related so cannot make decisions for each other etc. I brought this up to DP and he said something along the lines of ‘I’ll do things at my own pace’.

We had a pretty rocky patch after that as I felt he had had enough time to know what he wanted but things improved and he made noises about marriage being a possibility. Today things have come to a head and I have told him our relationship is over as he had been deceitful - he has no intention of proposing but hasn’t had the decency to let me know!

I completely understand that some people don’t want marriage and that’s fine. What isn’t fine is not being honest and upfront about it.

I’m heartbroken and angry in equal measure as if I’d been told the truth from the outset I could have made a decision as to whether to stay or go. It baffles me how you can claim to love a person but intentionally hurt them.

I know these threads are ten a penny but just wanted some advice, even if it’s to tell me how stupid I have been!

OP posts:
redastherose · 02/06/2021 13:50

I think that now you have to do what you have said, no more doing any wife things for him, no cooking, cleaning, separate beds the whole lot. Make your plans to move out and do it. If he doesn't want a wife he doesn't get the benefits of a wife who does things for him. Its sad but he has taken advantage of you and you are fortunate in that you have a job and your own pension but you have spent years contributing towards his house and paying his mortgage. If you have jointly contributed you might be able to claim an equitable interest in the property so it would be worth speaking to a solicitor about that. He has put his financial interests ahead of your desire for security and that shows his priority lies with him so you now have to make you your priority.

Dixiechickonhols · 02/06/2021 14:02

If you are intent on separating then you’ll need all evidence you can re financials and see a specialist solicitor to see if you have any prospects of establishing an interest in house. This is a complex area and legal advice won’t be cheap.
If you’ve fallen in trap of paying for the donkey work - childcare, child activities, uniform and him paying for assets eg house you may well have to accept you are starting from scratch re housing.

Unlovedandinsecure · 02/06/2021 14:04

@Blossomtoes

If he told me he didn’t want to grow old alone, I’d tell him it was the registry office or Tinder!
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
OP posts:
DogInATent · 02/06/2021 14:04

I’ve told him I want to be married, yes. That to me is a proposal, though I get for some people it’s the getting on one knee and presenting a ring. That’s not something I would either do or like him to do for me.

We are a bit long in the tooth for Disney-style romantic gestures, that horse bolted a very long time ago 😂

You don't need to get on one knee, but FFS at least try the words "Will you marry me?"

QueeniesCroft · 02/06/2021 14:05

It doesn't matter about who should have done what, or is to blame for what. What matters is that you want to get married, and he clearly doesn't. That means you will probably have to move out and start again.

Lots of people have to start again from nothing, for many reasons. You can do that, you just need to work out a plan. Later, when you are settled and have a bit of time, you can worry about how this all happened and why it ended like this, but now really isn't the time.

He can wail about blackmail all he likes, you have every right to say that the relationship cannot continue without marriage, just as he has the right to say that he doesn't want to get married (although I appreciate that he hasn't actually said this!). It doesn't matter why it is important to you, just that it is.

It seems unlikely that he will marry you, so now you need to start separating yourself from him financially, looking for a place to live, and set about the process of building a new life for yourself. I wish you well, and I hope that you are able to do this with the minimum of stress and animosity.

AmaryllisNightAndDay · 02/06/2021 14:06

I know we can sort out wills etc. but they would entail me accepting never being married and it is something I want. For myriad reasons I’ve always neglected my own needs and don’t wish to do so any longer.

Sorting out wills doesn't have to mean accepting never being married, you can write new wills when/if you marry. For years before we married DH and I had a legal arrangement about co-owning our home. As soon as we married that arrangement was void.

Also (from experience!) if you do want to marry your DH (and you're not already so pissed off that it's really over), it may be important to put that to him in a positive way. You don't just want to marry him because you happen to have been together for 20 years. Instead, you have been with him for 20 years because you always wanted to be with him, and you still do, and you want to be with him forever. And you want to marry him so you can stay together and share that mutual company and security and permanence. You have chosen him and even after 20 years you still want to have that permanence with him. Not just anyone! And then it can be up to him to decide if he wants to join you in that commitment or not.

TwoAndAnOnion · 02/06/2021 14:07

@Unlovedandinsecure

I've read all your posts and skimmed all the others, who will broadly say what I too am thinking.

Everyone has wittered on about financial security etc (take that as a given) but the one thing you haven't said is that you want to marry him because you love him.

My husband and I were married a very long time. He died. The first thing EVERYONE said to me was 'are you married?' The registrar, his HR dept, everyone. It would have made things so complicated if we were not.

I have three long-term couples friends - 33 years, 40 years, 45 years, each one of them when making a will was told to go and get married (in their 60s and 70s) simply because of pensions and inheritance taxes. It makes life so much simpler. But you know that.

I don't know what you can do to force the issue. Force is the wrong word. I can only suggest you write a letter telling him why it is important.

Beautiful3 · 02/06/2021 14:09

When I was with my boyfriend, we bought a house together. He did ask for children,.I said, "no way until we were married". He realised I was serious after a few years and still on birth control. Finally he proposed and we married 9 months later. After the wedding we made the children. I think if marriage was that important to you, you should have done it before the kids. He doesn't seem keen, so I don't think it's going to.happen. if you're arguing and falling out now, then he's not going to want to get married and essentially split his house with you.

WilsonMilson · 02/06/2021 14:11

He owns the house, a house to which you've financially contributed but to which you have no rights over.
If you split, and because your kids are older, you’d get nothing from him, despite having done a substantial amount of the childcare over the years and paid money towards the house. Not a bloody penny. You’d walk away with whatever personal money you have. He’d keep his pension, his house and his money. He has zero reason to get married, other than love and respect for you and a desire to make sure you are provided for in the event something happens to him - obviously he doesn’t care enough to do that, so I would question why you would stay, but also you must feel pretty bloody cheated.

That’s a massive problem if you stay, because you know he doesn’t really care what happens to you, and it offers a a real power imbalance in the relationship.
He could pull the plug at any time, and if he dies suddenly it’s a whole world of problems, do you even have wills?

I don’t really have any advice as you’re stuck between a rock and a hard place.
This is why women shouldn’t entertain children before marriage or live in a house only one of you own, especially unmarried. I know life isn’t that simple, but marriage really is a financial contract which protects the person who sacrifices career for children and who has most to lose.

I feel for you. It’s shit and he’s a shit for stringing you along for decades. Shocking really.

workshy44 · 02/06/2021 14:12

I was in a very similar situation so can understand how life can get in the way. In my case though there was a LOT of money involved and everything was in his name even though I had made at least 50% of it for him by working in the business.
I just issued an ultimatum, marry or I am gone. He didn't want to break up and I was still valuable to the business (plus his mother would be horrified if he stiffed me money wise and he worships her) so he went through with it. It was a bitter pill to swallow and I had to bite my tongue so many times but now we are on a equal footing the relationship is a million times better. I will still never truly forgive or forget but life is v good these days and at least I know (and he knows) that I can leave anytime I want with at least half

JinglingHellsBells · 02/06/2021 14:20

[quote Unlovedandinsecure]@JinglingHellsBells I’ve been very honest in my posts. The point I have made to him is that it is important for our relationship to be ‘official’ and legal as at the moment we have all this shared life and children and yet we aren’t related. If anything happened to either of us then it would fall to our adult child to deal with as NOK. His response is it’s not something he had ever thought about and he has been perfectly happy.

That is where we clash as he was told what I wanted years ago and he couldn’t give any answer as to why he has not either set a date or told me it’s never happening. His latest excuse is Covid - he couldn’t answer me when asked about the years before the pandemic. Though as far as I’m aware (which I told him) marriages were still taking place albeit very small.

I know we can sort out wills etc. but they would entail me accepting never being married and it is something I want. For myriad reasons I’ve always neglected my own needs and don’t wish to do so any longer.

As I’ve said, it just requires a simple yes let’s do it or no, move on. I don’t believe for a minute that a grown man with two decades to make his mind up cannot do so.

For what it’s worth, he seems very content and said he doesn’t want to grow old alone but equally I won’t devote the rest of my life to a man who just wants a girlfriend.[/quote]
You don't need to be married to have a will. Everyone ought to make a will, single or not, children or none. You can go out this week to see a solicitor and make a will. You could leave all you have to your kids or to a charity. You don't need to be married to do this. If you do marry, you can change your will.

I can't help but wonder why you are focusing in your posts on the practical side of things as the reason to marry, when it's clear that it's an emotional issue foremost for you.

The issue of your adult children having to deal with things- well, yes, that's what adult children do, eventually because one day both parents will die.

If you make your own will, you can name anyone - including a solicitor - to act as an executor, so your children escape that duty. Or you can choose a friend, or a sibling, or anyone who is happy to do it.
You can also have a Power of Attorney which means the named people ( more than two) can make decisions on your behalf if you are incapable.

You seem to be equating not wanting to be married with not loving you. And saying your are his girlfriend rather than the partner of his children who has lived with him for many years happy to be just that, is really inaccurate.

You say you have neglected your own needs. What are they?
How do they come into of being married or not?

Do you love him? Sorry but it sounds as if you don't. It sounds as if the status of marriage is more what you want.

Pickledpenguin · 02/06/2021 14:25

I am not married and I have a will.

Horehound · 02/06/2021 14:28

I think it's clear he doesn't want to marry you and I agree he is deceitful because he has string you along

I'd find that a turn off in itself. Deffo leave and find a man you deserve to be happy with :)

Unlovedandinsecure · 02/06/2021 14:29

@JinglingHellsBells what are you reading to come to the conclusion I don’t love him? Is it the bit about me being with him for so long, having and raising his children and wanting to be his wife? I’m sorry I didn’t outright say I loved him, I assumed saying I wanted to marry him betrayed that fact!

Girlfriend or partner is just semantics, they boil down to the same thing and I want us to be a married, committed couple who grow old together. Do you think if he died intestate I could say to the coroner ‘but I’m his long-standing partner, let me deal with his estate’? No, because legally we are not a couple or related.

I love him dearly and can’t imagine life with another man but equally don’t want my feelings and needs disregarded.

OP posts:
BruteForce · 02/06/2021 14:32

[quote TwoAndAnOnion]@Unlovedandinsecure

I've read all your posts and skimmed all the others, who will broadly say what I too am thinking.

Everyone has wittered on about financial security etc (take that as a given) but the one thing you haven't said is that you want to marry him because you love him.

My husband and I were married a very long time. He died. The first thing EVERYONE said to me was 'are you married?' The registrar, his HR dept, everyone. It would have made things so complicated if we were not.

I have three long-term couples friends - 33 years, 40 years, 45 years, each one of them when making a will was told to go and get married (in their 60s and 70s) simply because of pensions and inheritance taxes. It makes life so much simpler. But you know that.

I don't know what you can do to force the issue. Force is the wrong word. I can only suggest you write a letter telling him why it is important.[/quote]
So sorry for your loss, Two.

You're also quite right. OP must still love him to want to marry. I think this situation must be really hurtful for her.

I think your suggestion of writing to him and putting her feelings on paper is a great idea. If reading how she feels doesn't move him nothing will.

If she lost him suddenly, the financials and legalities would be a nightmare and if nothing else she should push for a civil partnership for both their sakes should the worst happen.

I'd still be seeing a solicitor first, though. I was bitten badly by a twat of an ex who wanted it all and refused a clean break so have a self-preservation problem. Reading posts like this hits a bit too close to home.

randomlyLostInWales · 02/06/2021 14:51

I wonder if a third party like a solicitor going through the legal implications of not marrying might make a difference.

scrambledcustard · 02/06/2021 14:54

@DogInATent

I’ve told him I want to be married, yes. That to me is a proposal, though I get for some people it’s the getting on one knee and presenting a ring. That’s not something I would either do or like him to do for me.

We are a bit long in the tooth for Disney-style romantic gestures, that horse bolted a very long time ago 😂

You don't need to get on one knee, but FFS at least try the words "Will you marry me?"

Why should she have to? He knows she wants to. This would just humiliate her if he reacted badly
TheVamoosh · 02/06/2021 15:04

Why are there so many women who don't think it's ok to ask for commitment? I don't understand it.

Pretzelcoatl · 02/06/2021 15:05

OP, I’ve read the first couple of pages, but otherwise have skimmed to read only your replies.

I’m male, but I’m also from a country where you would be considered a commonlaw wife as far as assets and POA would be concerned so forgive what I’m about to ask:

You’re currently not entitled to a part of the house, and have been in this relationship for long enough that your kids are in their teens. Suddenly (I mean when this came up a few years ago) marriage became important to you again, and that importance has built to a head relatively recently.

From his point of view, regardless of what you’re actually thinking, could he be feeling that you want to get married specifically because you want to leave but want access to financial assets which you apparently do not have currently?

Sorry in advance for the responses this will generate.

DrSbaitso · 02/06/2021 15:07

@TheVamoosh

Why are there so many women who don't think it's ok to ask for commitment? I don't understand it.
It's an excellent question.
traumatisednoodle · 02/06/2021 15:09

*We are a bit long in the tooth for Disney-style romantic gestures, that horse bolted a very long time ago

You don't need to get on one knee, but FFS at least try the words "Will you marry me?"

Why should she have to? He knows she wants to. This would just humiliate her if he reacted badly*

I "propsed" to DH when DS (unplanned) was 15m, something in the middle. Certainly didn't get down on one knee. We were in bed, I just said we could get married in September if you like and then we did. It sounds as if OP has already tried something similar.

SengaMac · 02/06/2021 15:14

From his point of view, regardless of what you’re actually thinking, could he be feeling that you want to get married specifically because you want to leave but want access to financial assets which you apparently do not have currently?

If he thinks that, the relationship isn't doing very well anyway.
Come to think of it, how well is it really doing if he thinks it's fine to hang on to all the assets and leave OP potentially with nothing if he doesn't make a will in her favour?

Unlovedandinsecure · 02/06/2021 15:17

@Pretzelcoatl hi! No, I don’t believe that he thinks I’m after his assets. For context, we are both from a poor, working class background, our home although mortgaged is a modest house, and we will have little in the way of any inheritance. He has a good job and pension, as do I but nothing even approaching ‘rich’. If it was money I was after I would have sought out a more ‘prosperous’ man when I was younger, slimmer and prettier 😂

It is because we are both at the age when we need to consider our future health and problems that may arise, and because I just want to be his wife! Not girlfriend or partner. That to me almost relegates you in importance.

Again, I respect anyone who for their own reasons doesn’t want to marry but I would expect them to own this.

The sad thing is, we have had a kind of quasi-marriage and been through a lot of ups and awful downs throughout our time together. As he once said, we’ve come out the other side when most people would have quit. So in a sense we’ve been more committed to each other than a lot of married couples we know but I just don’t have that security I crave.

OP posts:
Unlovedandinsecure · 02/06/2021 15:20

@traumatisednoodle

*We are a bit long in the tooth for Disney-style romantic gestures, that horse bolted a very long time ago

You don't need to get on one knee, but FFS at least try the words "Will you marry me?"

Why should she have to? He knows she wants to. This would just humiliate her if he reacted badly*

I "propsed" to DH when DS (unplanned) was 15m, something in the middle. Certainly didn't get down on one knee. We were in bed, I just said we could get married in September if you like and then we did. It sounds as if OP has already tried something similar.

Yes, I have actually said once that I will look at booking the registry office and he said he’d like do it in his own time. Think that may have been about 15 yrs in 😂😂😂

I’m certainly not going to beg, which I think asking him to marry me would be when he is only too aware it’s what I want.

OP posts:
Anonmummyoftwo · 02/06/2021 15:22

If your together for so long and things are fine what’s the big issue with marriage. I personally don’t ever want to get married but that’s just my personal reasons but if the big thing is about medical decisions why not go to a solicitor or something to have it in writing that you can make these choices for each other.

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