Another reluctant ‘groom’

[Unlovedandinsecure]

Unlovedandinsecure

Hi all,

Been with my partner for a long time, have children, he owns the house but I work full time. For a long time I didn’t think about marriage as was busy working and raising my children, so I was otherwise occupied! Then a few years ago I started thinking about our future and how we are not related so cannot make decisions for each other etc. I brought this up to DP and he said something along the lines of ‘I’ll do things at my own pace’.

We had a pretty rocky patch after that as I felt he had had enough time to know what he wanted but things improved and he made noises about marriage being a possibility. Today things have come to a head and I have told him our relationship is over as he had been deceitful - he has no intention of proposing but hasn’t had the decency to let me know!

I completely understand that some people don’t want marriage and that’s fine. What isn’t fine is not being honest and upfront about it.

I’m heartbroken and angry in equal measure as if I’d been told the truth from the outset I could have made a decision as to whether to stay or go. It baffles me how you can claim to love a person but intentionally hurt them.

I know these threads are ten a penny but just wanted some advice, even if it’s to tell me how stupid I have been!

@Anonmummyoftwo I’ve explained in my numerous other posts why

If your together for so long and things are fine what’s the big issue with marriage

Do people honestly not understand how precarious OPs situation is? She has no legal right to live in the house to which she has contributed directly and indirectly for so long.

If she had rented that same house over the same period of time, she would still not have any claim on the capital but would have some security of notice period to being turned out.

Sadly, though, she also had limited, even no leverage with which to bargain with him.

He has all the power in this situation.

I realise that I will sound like a toddler if I wail 'it's sooo unfair'.

[quote Unlovedandinsecure]@JinglingHellsBells what are you reading to come to the conclusion I don’t love him? Is it the bit about me being with him for so long, having and raising his children and wanting to be his wife? I’m sorry I didn’t outright say I loved him, I assumed saying I wanted to marry him betrayed that fact!

Girlfriend or partner is just semantics, they boil down to the same thing and I want us to be a married, committed couple who grow old together. Do you think if he died intestate I could say to the coroner ‘but I’m his long-standing partner, let me deal with his estate’? No, because legally we are not a couple or related.

I love him dearly and can’t imagine life with another man but equally don’t want my feelings and needs disregarded.[/quote]
I'm sorry but all that comes over is your anger with him. I do understand your frustration, but I suppose I don't quite understand why marriage is suddenly ( relatively) important to you. The coroner doesn't get involved with who gets what when someone dies. Legally, either his own parents (are they alive?) or your children are next of kin. But as an adult man, he ought to know the importance of having a will. If his children are under 18, you ought to sort out a guardian appointed (for BOTH of you) in case you both die together in a car or plane crash.

These are simple things that you and him need to talk about regardless of marriage (and if your children are not legally adults.)

You need to sit him down and have a grown up conversation on this.

If he won't marry you, then you have the choice of staying with him and hoping he will change his mind, or leaving and losing all you have built up together. Only you know which is the way forward.

Have you explained how strongly you feel and that you have decided to end the relationship?

That's no point jogging along without making any sensible arrangements.
Married or not, you both need to sort out your pensions, powers of attorney and wills.
Tell him that, instead of focusing on a marriage.

Op, how come you were never added to the mortgage or anything?

@SengaMac

There is no legal protection for OP without marriage - or a legal document adding her to the house deeds. Do you not realise that the OP's partner can make a will at any time and leave HIS house to anyone he likes and the OP, as neither his wife nor a person named on HIS house deeds, has not got a leg to stand on.

Please stop posting legal lies on a forum where there are many women who lack legal knowledge and buy into myths such as common law marriage, making a will to protect you if you are not married etc, etc,

You do realise that even if she inherits as she stands, she will have to pay tax on the house - as she is not exempt from the tax since they are not married.

As many, many women have posted on this and other similar threads, marriage is a LEGAL contract that gives you protection.

Anything else does not offer this legal protection to the lower earner who has not got assets in their name.

@category12

Op, how come you were never added to the mortgage or anything?

Good question. Did you ever discuss this? If he died tomorrow this alone could create huge difficulties for you.

How old are you both OP?

You seem very focused on health and death but from what you say, maybe you are just 40-ish? And how old are your children? Are they at home, working, able to support themselves? Or are they going to uni and will need parental and financial support for a bit longer?

These are important, adult issues and it sounds as if you are living with a man-child.

Why is he so wonderful if he won't behave like a grown up and sort out a will?
Why has he never put you as a co-owner of the house?
Why have you never pushed for that as much as you are pushing for marriage?
Did you never wonder in 20 years what would happen if he had left you?

@Annasgirl I did not post lies and never mentioned the common-law rubbish.
If the man won't marry, OP should still get as much sorted as she can.

Would he put you on the house deeds?

Why do people keep asking OP why she ‘suddenly’ wants to get married when she’s explained numerous times that she’s being bring it up for the best part of a decade?
And she’s explained why she wants to get married, several hundred times too.

[quote Annasgirl]@SengaMac

There is no legal protection for OP without marriage - or a legal document adding her to the house deeds. Do you not realise that the OP's partner can make a will at any time and leave HIS house to anyone he likes and the OP, as neither his wife nor a person named on HIS house deeds, has not got a leg to stand on.

Please stop posting legal lies on a forum where there are many women who lack legal knowledge and buy into myths such as common law marriage, making a will to protect you if you are not married etc, etc,

You do realise that even if she inherits as she stands, she will have to pay tax on the house - as she is not exempt from the tax since they are not married.

As many, many women have posted on this and other similar threads, marriage is a LEGAL contract that gives you protection.

Anything else does not offer this legal protection to the lower earner who has not got assets in their name.[/quote]
@Annasgirl She didn't post lies. She mentioned things that the OP could do herself- a will, pensions and POA. Single women can do all of those.

@Beefcurtains79 Has she actually said for around a decade? I must have missed that. Thought she said a few years.

But there is sone legal protection.

There may be a common intention constructive trust, giving her an equitable interest in the property. Which means she will own x% (fora court to decide) and he can't leave that share to someone else via a will as it does not belong to him.

Now wether she can prove sone ownership, it's not clear. If he bought the house pre them meeting then it would be harder for example. But there is a legal route.

If the children are your joint children, and if you did most of the childcare while he furthered his career, then he was able to invest more in his house because of your uncompensated childcare services. In that case, his being unwilling to share the financial benefit of that with you is unjust, and I think you should call him out on it. (Failing that, you might issue him a bill for backpay of his half of the childcare) Personally, I also take a dim view of men who expect their female romantic partner to go through the physical risk of pregnancy and childbirth for their joint children, without being willing to completely share their own resources. Women are not service animals.

If the children are yours alone, then the above doesn't apply, because you would have a responsibility to your children whether or not your partner was in the picture.

Either way, it's up to you if you want to be married going forward. If he doesn't want to be married but just remain as girlfriend/boyfriend, then that's his decision, but you'd be entirely fair in deciding that it's not the relationship you want for your future.

OP says 8 years ago she sat down and explicitly said she wanted marriage.

I can see why it's come up again now - children are adults or older teenagers so they're getting to a different life phase where thinking starts to focus on health and retirement a bit more and is less child focused and driven.

When we get there -children education in schools/collge done -we'll probably have another move to new area with work and thinking and what we need from location and house will be slightly different to last work move which had to factor in the kids needs.

@burntoutbabe Where are you getting the info from?

What about civil partnership? Is a start an appointment with a solicitor to discuss eg wills, joint ownership of house and ensure nominations in place re pension/death in service. At that stage it will probably become apparent that trying to replicate protections of marriage is easier and cheaper done via marriage or civil partnership.
Have you had conversations re what if he dies tomorrow in a crash or you do. What does he say? If his attitude is I’d be dead so I don’t care what happens to you or hassle you may have that says it all really.

I don't understand anybody having children with someone who doesn't love them enough to marry them in this case I think he values his assets more than the protection of his partner.

Your next of kin can be anyone you nominate. We're not married but are NOK at in hospital records Next of kin doesn't legally mean anything until you're dead.

Yes I’ve mentioned wanting to marry for nearly a decade, obvious not every day but periodically. They are both our children and we are in our 40s so hopefully not about to kick the bucket but I want to be safe rather than sorry.

He did ask me if I want him to add my name to the house deeds and that is something for me to consider but to be honest I see the house as my children’s inheritance and not a cash asset for us.

Ultimately, however desperate it sounds I want us to be married and it saddens me that he isn’t on that same page.

Thanks for all your opinions. Women really do have some way to go before society is equal. I think we need to remember that not everyone who works has a well-paid job and/or career so it’s not always possible for women with small children to continue working full time, it simply isn’t economically viable. Also, it’s true that when they are young you want to be there for them. There is no ‘having it all’ - that’s such nonsense. I worked part time so my earnings, work progression and pension was negatively impacted in a way my partner’s never was. That is true for so many women and it’s unjust. I don’t know what the answer to that could be, as even some married mothers are shafted in divorce. We do indeed still live in a very patriarchal society and I need to have another talk with my children about that. Also, remind them that unless the law changes, make sure they marry before having their own children.

Sorry, went off on a bit of a tangent there!!

Hi OP. So sorry you’re in this confusing position. I’m sure it doesn’t mean he doesn’t live you or is t committed enough to you. Some people just kind of freeze at the idea of marriage. I don’t know why. Maybe he is worried about your children having access to his assets in the future? I don’t know? Give him a fortnight maybe, following this latest conversation. See what happens now?

Yes, I’ve told him this worries me and he said if knew he was going to die he’d marry me tomorrow. I was appalled at the idea that he only wants me to be his wife when he’s dead! And see the poor lady upthread whose husband did a similar thing, she’s heartbroken.

That obviously doesn’t include a possible sudden death though as he wouldn’t see that coming 😂

Thanks @moova. They are his children too and his is a very good father so will want to ensure they are taken care off. I’m not going to mention it again now, he can decide what he wants to do himself. I couldn’t be any clearer in what I would like for us and just wish I knew what he was thinking.

Of course you should be added to the deeds! What on earth are you thinking?! If you split up, he could marry and your children end up with nothing.

OP, please at the very least put your name on the deeds.

If you split at a later point he could possibly marry and leave everything to his new wife/partner and leave your children out of it (as my father did). If he has a new younger girlfriend/wife and she has children it makes it even more difficult.

Wills are easily changed. Legal documents not so much.

I wonder if he'd be more willing to marry if he suddenly developed an illness/had an accident where he'd need care?

I'm sorry I'm so cynical but I've seen so many partnerships go wrong and women left to fend for themselves.

I hope yours survives this and your partner understands your need for commitment stems from love (even though I'd want it for both person and financial security as well as future legal ease).