Mandatory Covid jabs for health workers

[WinnieSmith]

"Govt ‘absolutely thinking’ about mandatory Covid jabs for health workers, UK vaccine minister says"

www.rt.com/uk/525218-govt-thinking-mandatory-jabs-healthcare/

Should Covid jabs be mandatory for healthcare workers?

IABU - yes
IANBU - no

This is hypocritical from the government. We are told that the Covid vaccine doesn't stop transmission so what does it matter if healthcare workers have it or not?

Err, no. From everything I've read recently, it DOES slow down transmission. So yes, it does matter.

I wouldn’t have been allowed on my degree without Hep B, they tested for antibodies before accepting us, Hep A & tetanus booster. I had the meningitis vaccine too as a precaution as people were waving their kids off late September & burying them by Christmas thanks to meningitis.

Yes of course if they are dealing with patients. Any responsible ones would do so anyway.

In my trust you have to be vaccinated against hepatitis b in any patient facing role. It’s mandatory. No ifs, no buts.

I’m a student healthcare worker at the moment.

The youngest of my cohort (think she’s 20) is absolutely refusing. She’s had so much pressure to have it. But in her mind, she doesn’t know if it’ll affect her fertility later on in life. I kind of see her point.

It’s difficult.

@Hallyup6

Flu kills a lot of people and flu jabs aren't mandatory for health care staff. They're offered to them, which I think is the only thing they can do with the covid vaccine. If they make it mandatory, they'll lose a lot of staff and the care sector simply can't afford that. I hope that most care workers can see the benefit of having the jab though.

Flu jabs should be mandatory too for those working with the vulnerable.

Many many jobs have requirements.

Non drivers can't work as taxi drivers. They need a licence too. Doctors and nurses can't work in their role without certain qualifications. Plumbers working on boilers need to be trained and registered gas safe.

Freedom works both ways.
People can have the freedom to refuse the jab. Equally an employer should have the freedom to not employ them.

Just as with any other job they're not qualified for, if they don't want the jab for a job caring for the vulnerable they need to find a more suitable job.

Unemployment is up in many areas as a consequence of Covid. There are plenty of replacement workers in need of a job.

Why should vulnerable people be helplessly exposed to unnecessary risk? There's no care in failing to protect the vulnerable.

@PinkSnowAndStars

In my trust you have to be vaccinated against hepatitis b in any patient facing role. It’s mandatory. No ifs, no buts.

I’m a student healthcare worker at the moment.

The youngest of my cohort (think she’s 20) is absolutely refusing. She’s had so much pressure to have it. But in her mind, she doesn’t know if it’ll affect her fertility later on in life. I kind of see her point.

It’s difficult.

As a healthcare student she will be learning how to critically appraise research articles. She should be basing her decision on that, not on what's in her mind.

No

Not health care workers that are currently working in the NHS anyway. You can't force people to have the vaccine. No matter how tempting.

They should make it a job requirement for new employees though. Other vaccinations are already in the NHS. My local hospital you have to have had the TB shot and another one. I forget which. Before they will employ you. That is everyone even office staff. I got a job there once.

There's a difference between "no evidence that it's harmful" and "it's not harmful". This is clearly proven with the stuff about clots coming out from AZ. I've been vaccinated, I had AZ even as a young woman because I work in the NHS so was eligible early. Everyone was saying how safe it is and how it had been rigourously tested - which it has, this is true, but it's only with time and mass use that we really see the true effects. Look at what happened with the swine flu vaccine. So, no, this will never happen. It's not in any way comparable to the current mandatory vaccines for NHS staff which have decades of evidence behind them.

And the talk of legal action.

Again works both ways. I'd sue if a vulnerable family member was harmed as a result of being exposed unnecessarily through an unvaccinated so-called care employee.

There is meant to be a duty of care to the vulnerable. Hospitals and care homes should be a place of safety.

I also think it's sad how quickly people have forgotten what we NHS staff did during the pandemic. We have already done so much. Now people are advocating for NHS staff to be fired because there are "plenty of people waiting to do the job". Funny how we were good enough for you when we were dying...

@AnnaMagnani

There already are vaccines that are mandatory for healthcare workers.

It's not beyond imagination that other vaccines might get added to this list.

This.

Not health care workers that are currently working in the NHS anyway. You can't force people to have the vaccine. No matter how tempting.

Agree. No one should be forced to have it.

Equally the vulnerable should not be forced to have unsafe care.

Sometimes a new requirement comes in after someone has a job. Plumbing, for example. Not all were gas safe (previously Corgi) registered. If they didn't want to or couldn't past the training, they simply had to find alternative employment.

Again, there is a duty of care to the vulnerable.

@WinnieSmith it's been made fairly clear that whilst the vaccination most like won't stop transmission completely, it most certainly lowers it.

The whole situation is incredibly frustrating, as the reasons people give for not wanting the vaccination are often not based in fact.

I agree it should be mandatory for NHS workers. As has been pointed out already, some other vaccinations are already mandatory so this isn't a change in policy. The freedom of choice works both ways.

No.

Because..
A. The vaccine does not stop you catching or transmitting the virus.
B. I will fight for the right to choose, even though personally pro vaccine. It is a slippery slope to start making thing mandatory. Then I would be forced to join the looney marches.

@confuseddotcomma

I also think it's sad how quickly people have forgotten what we NHS staff did during the pandemic. We have already done so much. Now people are advocating for NHS staff to be fired because there are "plenty of people waiting to do the job". Funny how we were good enough for you when we were dying...

I have been all for the fantastic work of NHS workers long before the pandemic and will be long after.

However, I still believe they have a duty to care to those they care for and that includes being vaccinated against illnesses which could be potentially fatal for those they care for unless there is a legitimate medical reason they can’t be vaccinated

Yes they should. Certain jobs require certain vaccinations. You wouldn't work as a dog warden without a Rabies or Tetanus jab, you wouldn't go travelling in Africa without a Malaria jab, you can't work in a lab or as a surgeon without a Hepatitis jab and you shouldn't be able to work in health care without a Covid19 jab.

@Tealightsandd

Not health care workers that are currently working in the NHS anyway. You can't force people to have the vaccine. No matter how tempting.

Agree. No one should be forced to have it.

Equally the vulnerable should not be forced to have unsafe care.

Sometimes a new requirement comes in after someone has a job. Plumbing, for example. Not all were gas safe (previously Corgi) registered. If they didn't want to or couldn't past the training, they simply had to find alternative employment.

Again, there is a duty of care to the vulnerable.

Normally I would agree with you but this is about putting something into your own body.

Personally I think everyone has a moral duty to get the jab. It is about protecting people. However I can't live in a society that would basically think forcing someone to have it is ok. Likewise sacking them if they don't because this could cause them financial hardship and all that entails.

I totally understand why people think NHS staff or residential care workers should be made to have the jab. I just personally can't stomach the idea.

It’ll be a nightmare if they bring this in. I’ve managed residential homes. Recruiting good quality, caring and experienced staff is an ongoing battle. Adding a condition such as that in is going to make it even harder.

@chickenyhead

No.

Because..
A. The vaccine does not stop you catching or transmitting the virus.
B. I will fight for the right to choose, even though personally pro vaccine. It is a slippery slope to start making thing mandatory. Then I would be forced to join the looney marches.

That's not even close.

If it doesn't stop you catching or transmitting the virus it isn't a vaccine. It's a drink of water.

What you meant was "it is not 100 efficacious" which is the case for the majority of medicines.

And a job requirement is not blanket mandation nor discrimination.

Again that's hyperbole.

You don't have to fight for the right for people to choose, we all have that right. Even in jobs where some things, some vaccines are mandatory.

I am an NHS doctor- mandatory vaccination already exists. For example (unless you have a valid medical exemption) nhs dr’s must have had the full vaccination schedule and must have had the hep b vaccine etc. This is just another to add to the list.

I think we'll have to agree to disagree here.

I'm in agreement nobody should be forced to have the jab - but equally no-one should be forced to suffer unsafe care.

It has happened with other jobs. Different issues to a jab but same principle. Won't meet the new or changed requirements of a job? Have to find alternative employment.

Why special exceptions here?

Do you not think the vulnerable have the right to safe care?

Where is the duty of care to the vulnerable?

@chickenyhead

No.

Because..
A. The vaccine does not stop you catching or transmitting the virus.
B. I will fight for the right to choose, even though personally pro vaccine. It is a slippery slope to start making thing mandatory. Then I would be forced to join the looney marches.

I agree with you on both points. Though I would refuse to march with the looney tunes until they clean up their act a bit.

Also I need to point out vaccines do stop a large percentage of infections and transmissions. Lots of studies and real world data to prove this now.

@jacks11

I am an NHS doctor- mandatory vaccination already exists. For example (unless you have a valid medical exemption) nhs dr’s must have had the full vaccination schedule and must have had the hep b vaccine etc. This is just another to add to the list.

Can I ask. Is it mandatory if you are already employed when a new vaccine is added or is it just mandatory to all new employees?

Certain vaccines have been mandatory for frontline health jobs for years. The flu jab isn't mandatory but other vaccinations are (MMR, Heb b?, TB in some areas). I have never heard of anyone turning down a job because of it or complain about it. It's purely to try and protect vulnerable patients.

Well if the vaccines are now considered to reduce transmission, unfortunately I would put that ahead of freedom to choose in healthcare settings where vulnerable people are involved.