Mandatory Covid jabs for health workers

[WinnieSmith]

"Govt ‘absolutely thinking’ about mandatory Covid jabs for health workers, UK vaccine minister says"

www.rt.com/uk/525218-govt-thinking-mandatory-jabs-healthcare/

Should Covid jabs be mandatory for healthcare workers?

IABU - yes
IANBU - no

@TangoWhiskyAlphaTango

Smokers and drinkers do not pose a health risk to those treating them though do they??

That was not the point you were making, as well you know.

@Sirzy

There is already vaccination requirements for NHS staff, so a very much needed precedent has been set. This should be added to those requirements.

I don't disagree but those vaccinations are not in trial for several more years.

@TangoWhiskyAlphaTango

... and actually they do - whilst working in ED I experienced violently drunken behaviour and patients actually consuming alcohol on the ward.

They have to get a hep b vaccine anyway so 🤷🏻‍♀️

@NewPapaGuinea

Absolutely not. No one has the right to impose what you get injected with. If someone wants to protect themselves they can get the jab. Look up Lisa Shaw for why someone may decide to not get the vaccine.

First, it's incredibly disrespectful to ignore Lisa Shaw's family's request. They asked people to not use her very tragic death for anti vaxx purposes. It's still unknown whether it was even the cause. It's more than possible it was actual Covid. I don't know if she was tested but even PCRs have a relatively high number of false negatives.

Secondly, nobody is going to be forced to have a jab. They are free to refuse.

Equally the vulnerable need to have their rights protected.

They have the right to be safe, and hospitals and care homes have a legal responsibility - a duty of care to them.

@Tealightsandd
@NewPapaGuinea

They asked people to not use her very tragic death for anti vaxx purposes

^ this

Firstly, I’m not anti-vax, just saying there are risks with vaccine. When the family say not to use it, they probably mean the media, rather than a random comment on the internet.

Secondly, this whole thread is about mandatory jabs so not sure what you’re getting at.

Thirdly, those vulnerable people can protect themselves with the vaccine. Vaccinated people can still transmit the virus.

Fortunately hospitals also have a duty of care to their staff

@berryhead2013

Again, and not wanting to be accused of "anti-vaxx" - the hep b vaccine is not currently still in the trial stage

@confuseddotcomma

Where do you think this money will come from? Do you realise NHS staff haven't had a real terms pay rise or even in line with inflation in a very long time? This is all just a pipe dream from some very poorly informed people sadly.

When they want to, they find money.

They found billions for the not very accurate lateral flow tests and failed PPE.

They were also happy to lose billions in stamp duty.

Here's an idea for saving some taxpayer cash. Increase housing benefit rates to cover at least 30-50% of private rents. Immediately saving billions on the cost of housing the homeless in very expensive temporary accommodation.

I think everyone dealing with members of the public as part of their job role should be vaccinted.
I terms of health care workers, yes they should, they are dealing with the most vunerable members of the public. Surgeons have to have certain vaccinations before they can do their job, so why is it at different for anyone else

@NewPapaGuinea

I'm not sure if your comment is aimed at me - but I take your point about a random comment on the internet.

Your comment Vaccinated people can still transmit the virus - I tend to agree but others have pointed to peer reviewed articles that suggest that transmission is reduced.

@WinnieSmith it was at some point in a trial stage
The covid vaccine has been tested a rigorously as any other half the work was already done due to research in other vaccines
And if your going into frontline patient care you have a duty to protect your patients and yourself

I can see this going another way too - (for care homes, I can't speak of the NHS as I don't really know enough about the structure) if Vaccination is made mandatory for care services.

That care workers that have been vaccinated are going to be able to pick and choose their jobs, and employers will have to be competitive during recruitment with regards to pay and conditions to get these staff, because they're going to be in short supply, and it's not a case of cutting corners (or shouldn't be, the care should be safe from a practical pov as well as covid)
That's going to have a knock on effect to fees and taxes as operating costs are going to increase.

Are people wanting to lose non vaccinated workers ok with that? It's great for people like me, who are vaccinated and may then command a higher pay because of that, but not so great that that's the only reason I can command higher pay, rather than my skill set or experience, and not so great for those used to not paying a real cost for care.

this whole thread is about mandatory jabs so not sure what you’re getting at.

No it's about mandatory job requirements. Very common across all types of industries with different job roles.

those vulnerable people can protect themselves with the vaccine.
Vaccines do not give 100% protection and might not work as well in the elderly and vulnerable.

Vulnerable patients in hospitals and care home residents rely on those caring for them to protect them and keep them safe. It's not care if they're being put at unnecessary risk.

Absolutely not. I said the same about care home staff. If you want staff to be vaccinated and a safe health and social care system, you need to use carrots not sticks and making it mandatory to have a vaccination which is effectively in trial phase until 2023 is not the carrot.

And for everyone saying health staff who aren't vaccinated shouldn't work - are you happy for 10-20% longer waiting lists, even higher staff shortages, your elderly parents not get the carers they need because 20% of staff have been redeployed because they declined a covid vaccination?

We cannot magic up health care staff, it takes 3-4 years to train an RN or AHP, upwards of 10 years to train a Dr. We cannot afford to lose experienced professionals because they don't want a covid vaccination.

I am fully vaccinated, and have had several lengthy conversations as a manager with the couple of staff (out of 80or so) who I manage to try to convince them to rethink and have it (with no success). But I will stand behind any of them to be allowed to make a informed choice, whether I agree with their decision or not.

Its a difficult one. I'm a healthcare workers working with haematology patients, a very high risk group many of whom are severely immunocompromised so their own vaccines may not be very effective. Many of my patients and their family members are very worried and anxious about contracting covid and for good reason. 40 nurses on my ward and every one of us got vaccinated. I'd find it hard not to be critical of anyone working with vulnerable people who wouldn't get the vaccine but would stop short of taking the choice away.

I think this thread really sums up this country's attitude to the NHS sadly.
You were all happy for us to go to work in a pandemic and risk our lives, you were so grateful for us then
Now you advocate for us to lose our jobs for not having a vaccine still in trials.
You say the money can be found somewhere to raise pay to make this viable.
Where were you when we were working with no PPE? When we were literally saving your lives? Were you asking for us to get a pay rise then?
No. We had to fight for our less than inflation pay rise.
The sad fact is, I would love to work in an NHS with fully vaccinated staff too. But it is completely unrealistic. I am bowing out of this now as there are too many uneducated comments and honestly it's making me angry. You wouldn't believe the strain NHS staff have been under. The way some of you are talking is really not ok. Did you know we are people too?

@confuseddotcomma

Do you realise NHS staff haven't had a real terms pay rise or even in line with inflation in a very long time?

Off topic but this cannot be emphasised enough.

@Iquitit

Good point. Vaccinated workers will of course be in higher demand - and quite rightly be able to ask for better pay and working conditions.

Families will also vote with their feet. Who will pay to put their vulnerable loved ones in a care home full of unvaccinated staff? They'll go elsewhere to a safer care home instead.

@confuseddotcomma

I'm so sorry you feel like this.

There will be people who cannot/should not have the vaccine for their own medical reasons. Is it suggested these people should lose their jobs?

@NewPapaGuinea

There will be people who cannot/should not have the vaccine for their own medical reasons. Is it suggested these people should lose their jobs?

If there is a genuine reason then no. However it is for those people (both staff and patients) that it is all the more important that everyone who can be vaccinated is

@berryhead2013

Again, whilst it's been tested, the trials won't finish for several years.

I'm not suggesting an anti-vaxx stance but it's not comparable to other vaccines that have completed trials.

@NewPapaGuinea

There will be people who cannot/should not have the vaccine for their own medical reasons. Is it suggested these people should lose their jobs?

People sometimes lose their vision. Should a blind surgeon remain in their role operating on patients or would it be better if they were redeployed?