DS has a child and doesn't want anything to do with him

[Minewo]

I've been lurking for a while but I'm posting as I need advice.

DS is 19 and split up with his girlfriend a few months ago. The other day the girls mum messaged me (we know each other but aren't close) telling me to tell DS to leave her DD alone and stop asking if they can get back together, as her DD doesn't want to get back with him especially as he cheated on her and has a child. I had no idea, I spoke to DS and he denied it at first but then he admitted he has a child but he doesn't want anything to do with it as he was drunk and he told the girl to have an abortion but she didn't.

I just don't know what to do and I just feel so sad as I thought I brought him up better than for him to just abandon his child

[quote Librariesmakeshhhhappen]@CharlotteRose90

Well, so far all OP has done is ask her son what the woman's name is and accepted his answer of "it doesnt matter".[/quote]
And what do you expect her to do? Beat her child over the head till he gives her the answers. If it was a one night stand he’s probably deleted her number and forgotten her name. She’s done nothing wrong. Your experience is clouding your judgment

@Dervel

Well this has turned into a depressing read. There isn’t really a right side here as it’s possible to construct valid arguments for either side. It all entirely depends on your own values and ethics, both of which are going to be intensely personal. There is no standardised rational proof for any particular ethical system.

I don’t usually like resorting to utilitarianism, but in cases like this I am very much persuaded in situations like these to focus entirely on the outcomes for any potential children and the data is clear. Adoption will on average lead to better life outcomes for unplanned children where the father doesn’t want to be involved, and the mother is economically unable to meet the child’s needs on her own.

Note I’m not in anyway making a case that any sort of enforcement either societal or legal to force that outcome should be made, simply that data on adoptions is worth bringing up.

Neither parent in this sorry scenario seem to be covering themselves in glory here based upon what we know. I feel sorry for the child.

Evidence?

@Owlina

Must be nice to have that choice.

Everyone has that choice.

Everyone has the choice to be financially secure enough not to get CMS ? Like I said I think I'm in a parallel world

Everyone has the choice to be financially secure enough not to get CMS ?
Like I said I think I'm in a parallel world

You do realise that plenty of people don’t get any maintenance because their ex will do anything they can to avoid payments or only get £7 per week so have to make do with no financial support.

@Dervel

Well this has turned into a depressing read. There isn’t really a right side here as it’s possible to construct valid arguments for either side. It all entirely depends on your own values and ethics, both of which are going to be intensely personal. There is no standardised rational proof for any particular ethical system.

I don’t usually like resorting to utilitarianism, but in cases like this I am very much persuaded in situations like these to focus entirely on the outcomes for any potential children and the data is clear. Adoption will on average lead to better life outcomes for unplanned children where the father doesn’t want to be involved, and the mother is economically unable to meet the child’s needs on her own.

Note I’m not in anyway making a case that any sort of enforcement either societal or legal to force that outcome should be made, simply that data on adoptions is worth bringing up.

Neither parent in this sorry scenario seem to be covering themselves in glory here based upon what we know. I feel sorry for the child.

Oh ffs what an absolute load of bullshit.

Change your name to 'drivel' @Dervel, and maybe find a time machine to take you back to the 1950s.

I think your reading comprehension is not what you thing it is. You clearly haven’t understood what I’ve written. Your arguments are also contradictory.

Ah a personal attack in addition to your vocabulary-policing.
Yes your rational argument is compelling
Please do point out my contradiction....

I don’t usually like resorting to utilitarianism, but in cases like this I am very much persuaded in situations like these to focus entirely on the outcomes for any potential children and the data is clear. Adoption will on average lead to better life outcomes for unplanned children where the father doesn’t want to be involved, and the mother is economically unable to meet the child’s needs on her own

ODFOD. Shit happens. Previously good, long term relationships fall a part. My ex left for the OW, he cleared the bank accounts and denied any responsibility for me, his pregnant wife, or his existing children. We lost the roof from over our heads, my credit rating was ruined and lord knows it took me years to come to terms with all. But within 2 years, I had retrained and was earning enough to support us, had moved to where family could help out and life was good again. In the immediate aftermath, however, it was a huge, horrible mess. The idea I should have just sent my children to be adopted because I got thrown a curve ball is beyond ridiculous.

What a sad, sorry human being you must be.

@Owlina

I had to pay for mine.

The majority can get them free on the NHS.

And? Do you want to actually answer my question rather than avoid it, seeing as it’s hypothetical anyway.

@KidneyBeans

I find it bizarre that there are posters on this thread arguing that:

Men shouldn't take responsibility for contraception

Men shouldn't ever suffer financial consequences of not taking responsibility for contraception

Women should be responsible for protecting men from their own decisions not to use contraception

Women should be responsible for protecting men from the UK legal system when they choose not to take responsibility for contraception

I feel like I'm in a parallel universe of misogyny.

I agree, @KidneyBeans - it is appalling. How are we ever going to get men to treat women half way decently, when other women peddle this shite?

This week there was a story in the news about forced adoptions in the 70s. Having read this thread, it appears that sadly there are still those that would applaud such a thing. Depressing.

@Getawaywithit

I don’t usually like resorting to utilitarianism, but in cases like this I am very much persuaded in situations like these to focus entirely on the outcomes for any potential children and the data is clear. Adoption will on average lead to better life outcomes for unplanned children where the father doesn’t want to be involved, and the mother is economically unable to meet the child’s needs on her own

ODFOD. Shit happens. Previously good, long term relationships fall a part. My ex left for the OW, he cleared the bank accounts and denied any responsibility for me, his pregnant wife, or his existing children. We lost the roof from over our heads, my credit rating was ruined and lord knows it took me years to come to terms with all. But within 2 years, I had retrained and was earning enough to support us, had moved to where family could help out and life was good again. In the immediate aftermath, however, it was a huge, horrible mess. The idea I should have just sent my children to be adopted because I got thrown a curve ball is beyond ridiculous.

What a sad, sorry human being you must be.

This. Misogyny odometer is in the red on this thread.

@Getawaywithit that's not a curve ball that's a massive fucking asteroid! I had similar happen to me although wasn't pregnant- you must be superhuman to deal with all of that. I'm glad that life is good again now for you.

As for you @Dervel this is why we should have a decent benefits system to support people in their hour of need, it absolutely saved me when my life fell apart, my husband left and I had no job, had to sell home etc. Within three months I was back at work and have progressed to a better job since then. Should I have put my kids up for adoption because I couldn't economically support them at that point? Think my kids might have had something to say about that, funnily enough.

We should help and support people in difficult times, and help them back on their feet so they can support themselves.

I'd like to see this so called data, too .

It’s a shame that MNHQ seem to miss opportunity after opportunity to use their considerable influence to improve the lives of children whose fathers refuse to financially support them. Where is the drive to campaign for tougher penalties for NRPs who refuse to support their children? Where is the pressure on the useless CMS to deliver results? Where is the motivation to change attitudes so that these men are ostracised by society?

An ex-colleague of mine had a ONS with a girl when he was 17. The girl got pregnant and they made it work by him supporting his child financially, and both sets of grandparents helping out. He always used to say it wasn’t what he would’ve chosen for his life, but neither was it what the mother of his child would’ve chosen either, but neither would change it and they both had a responsibility to ensure that their child was loved and well cared for.

Exactly, Strawberry. Instead some are bent on this agenda that women should suffer because the man CBA'd to be an adult - either have a medical procedure on her person she doesn't want or go through childbirth and then hand the child over so the man doesn't have to step up.

[quote BigHeadBertha]@osbertthehamster- Your post is rude and you obviously don't know what you're talking about. You are also putting words into my mouth.

Oh my GOD, he's NINETEEN! LOL!

He's a immature teenager who needs a kick in the pants because there's a REAL child here who deserves much better.

Many, if not most, of us actual present or past parents of NINETEEN YEAR OLD ADULTS have given them a good talking-to about various foolish decisions that would seriously affect their lives or those of others. RIDICULOUS? Um, no. Not at all. Sorry, kid.[/quote]
You're hilarious! Kid? I haven't been called that in a long time. I'm in my 50s. It's not at all rude, it just didn't agree with you so you didn't like it because you feel that you're superior and right and if others don't behave like you, they're shittier parents than you. That's not true.

I only have a daughter, but I can’t imagine how sad I’d feel to know that I’d raised a son who behaved like rhe ops son is behaving. Lying cheating, cold, obnoxious. I think when we fall pregnant, and we raise our children we try to make them the best people they can be, so to face the fact your child turns out to be like this must be devastating.

@osbertthesyrianhamster

Exactly, Strawberry. Instead some are bent on this agenda that women should suffer because the man CBA'd to be an adult - either have a medical procedure on her person she doesn't want or go through childbirth and then hand the child over so the man doesn't have to step up.

And it's the awful judgement that their DC would be better off with a family who could immediately economically support their child. So yet another kick to single mums basically.

If a woman wants to keep her baby, then the best place for that baby is with its mother. And as a society and state we should do all we can to support her in difficult times whilst encouraging and helping her to be able to support herself and her child when possible. Helping with education, training, finding a job etc.

@faithfulbird20

Have you spoke to him about the cheating? That kind of thing can scar someone for life.

Good point. His poor girlfriend was cheated on as well

I think the cheating pales into insignificance when you compare it to a child growing up knowing they have a father who doesn’t want to know them,

leaving your son aside - you should endeavour to make contact and be available to your grandchild - weather your son wants anything to do with the situation - if you are always available for that child despite their parents/ other family members - YOU will be the one they will want to go to = the trick is not to piss off the girls family she makes the rules. your son does have a financial responsibility and he should honour it - or else hes a prize shit - so he can pay and stay away - but make yourself amenable - unless they take the piss or start using the kid as leverage

@Iminaglasscaseofemotion

He has asked the girl for an abortion as he doesn't want the child. Why as a woman would we bring the child into the world knowing the father doesn't want it

Oh dear god, that's embarrassing!

I'm glad my mum did.

One of the earliest lessons we teach children is cause and effect, every action has a reaction. You touch the stove you get burnt, play with the door and your fingers may get trapped and so forth. It’s utterly pathetic and contemptible to then argue that once they reach adulthood they’re allowed to run away from the consequences of their actions. Whether male or female, we all have to own our actions.

OP’s DS chose to ejaculate inside this woman and this is the consequence. Legally speaking he does not have to see the child but definitely has to pay until they’re 18. That’s the crux of it really. You need to find out who the woman is somehow, maybe ask his friends? Someone will know. A DNA test needs to happen then he needs to start paying. Good luck OP.

Are you financially stable op. Can you afford to contribute to the child’s upbringing and form a relationship? I’m sure you’d want to do that for your own grandchild. I’m sure you’re nothing like your son and would be willing to step up.