DS has a child and doesn't want anything to do with him

[Minewo]

I've been lurking for a while but I'm posting as I need advice.

DS is 19 and split up with his girlfriend a few months ago. The other day the girls mum messaged me (we know each other but aren't close) telling me to tell DS to leave her DD alone and stop asking if they can get back together, as her DD doesn't want to get back with him especially as he cheated on her and has a child. I had no idea, I spoke to DS and he denied it at first but then he admitted he has a child but he doesn't want anything to do with it as he was drunk and he told the girl to have an abortion but she didn't.

I just don't know what to do and I just feel so sad as I thought I brought him up better than for him to just abandon his child

But it’s a choice to claim maintenance she may not want to, don’t assume everyone does. I’ve known of plenty of women that have never chased for maintenance and are happy to know that they’ve done it alone without needing anything from the ‘father’

I don't understand why people think its best to force a relationship between an unwilling father and a child. Surely having a parent that resents your very existence is more damaging than having no father in your life? He does however have to take financial responsibility. You could form your own relationship with the child but I really don't think you can force your son to accept the child.

@CandyFIosss

I wouldn't ask a man for money if I chose to keep a baby they didn't want personally.

agree absolutely. I’ve actually cancelled my back claim recently because my ex is not involved so I don’t wish to claim money from him for children he doesn’t want to see. I don’t get why people are so insistent on child maintenance no matter what. If I had a child with someone and they don’t want to know then I wouldn’t claim as I would see it as I made the choice to continue.

Curious, would you expect him to pay for the abortion if you agreed to it because he didn’t want the baby? Or does the women bear all costs both ways?

Once a poster starts talking about 'the menz' you know they are getting desperate.

As opposed to posters who critique word choice rather than providing any rationale?
If you're trying to turn this into a vocabulary discussion then I'd say your argument is pretty weak

*do the women

My friends that have had abortions had them for free so why would he need to pay

@CandyFIosss

My friends that have had abortions had them for free so why would he need to pay

I had to pay for mine.

both men and women are responsible in making sure they have protection.
Agreed

If a woman chooses to continue with a pregnancy that the man doesn’t want, then no he shouldn’t be forced to contribute financially.
So you hold women personally responsible for the consequences of all contraception failures? That doesn't sound very equal

In the same way, a man shouldn’t be able to force a woman to continue with an unwanted pregnancy.
Ah we're back to your one choice each means equality (if you ignore biology, society and the real world) argument. It's a shame you're confusing society with a maths equation, whilst ever you persist in that futile exercise you're unlikely to gain further understanding that life is not a case of 1 and 1 is equal.

Why did you think that women are not capable or sorting their own contraception?
Please point out where I said that? You seem to be making things up.

Which world do you live in where contraception failures never occur @ANiceCupOfCoffee ? It doesn't sound like the real world that's for sure.

@CandyFIosss

But it’s a choice to claim maintenance she may not want to, don’t assume everyone does. I’ve known of plenty of women that have never chased for maintenance and are happy to know that they’ve done it alone without needing anything from the ‘father’

Must be nice to have that choice. I guess it provides yet another opportunity for men to avoid all consequences

Wow, what a great consequence-free world men do seem to inhabit. Like being perpetual underage children.

I agree that its a man's right to choose if he wants to be a father if its a woman's right to choose if she wants to be a mother.

@KidneyBeans

Once a poster starts talking about 'the menz' you know they are getting desperate.

As opposed to posters who critique word choice rather than providing any rationale?
If you're trying to turn this into a vocabulary discussion then I'd say your argument is pretty weak

I think I’ve given plenty of answers and explained my rationale many times. Feel free to go back and actually read my posts.

@KidneyBeans

both men and women are responsible in making sure they have protection. Agreed

If a woman chooses to continue with a pregnancy that the man doesn’t want, then no he shouldn’t be forced to contribute financially.
So you hold women personally responsible for the consequences of all contraception failures? That doesn't sound very equal

In the same way, a man shouldn’t be able to force a woman to continue with an unwanted pregnancy.
Ah we're back to your one choice each means equality (if you ignore biology, society and the real world) argument. It's a shame you're confusing society with a maths equation, whilst ever you persist in that futile exercise you're unlikely to gain further understanding that life is not a case of 1 and 1 is equal.

Why did you think that women are not capable or sorting their own contraception?
Please point out where I said that? You seem to be making things up.

Which world do you live in where contraception failures never occur @ANiceCupOfCoffee ? It doesn't sound like the real world that's for sure.

I think your reading comprehension is not what you thing it is. You clearly haven’t understood what I’ve written. Your arguments are also contradictory.

I had to pay for mine.

The majority can get them free on the NHS.

@CandyFIosss

Subbaxeo

Good point, I’m sure most of the people slating this man for suggesting an abortion would advise an abortion had it been their teenage daughter who told them they were pregnant after a drunken one night stand!

Advising and telling are two completely different things. This boy didn't advise or ask, he told her. Who the hell does he think he is to think he can even attempt to control why someone else does with their body.

Think, not thing

Must be nice to have that choice.

Everyone has that choice.

@Librariesmakeshhhhappen

I think I'm seeing this as the whole lot of you to blame because of my personal experience, this is hitting close to home.

My ex walked out when our youngest was a few weeks old. So I was left with 2 kids, and had no idea he was going. Came home and all his stuff was just gone. He decided he wanted no contact with the kids, and told his parents they could either see him or see their grandchildren. They chose him.
He then used every trick he could to avoid any maintenance and his dad said to me, "well, we just didnt think that was important to we didnt think it was worth talking to him about".

I found out later that he had left me for a woman he worked with, it only lasted a few months and he ended up back living with his parents. They were just horrible, selfish people. And that's why he turned out the way he did. Followed their example.

So this, when I see a story if a boy acting like this, I just think "what sort of example did his parents set and what did they do when he abandoned the kid".

So, he's done this disgusting thing. What are you going to do?

The mum has done nothing wrong in this situation at all. Her and her son’s situation is nothing like yours at all. My dad left my mum after she had me and I certainly don’t blame my grandma. My dad is the one to blame the same as your kids dad.

Boys like them need to stop sleeping around or both Agree to contraception

@CandyFIosss

He can’t get an abortion but he can walk away when the baby is born. Which is what he’s done. The woman then can’t be surprised when he expressed his feelings very clearly.!

I agree with this completely. He should pay for the child but no one can force him to see the child it’s not fair on him. If a woman knows that the man doesn’t want the child and she decides to keep it it’s on her.

Walking out after the birth (or changing you mind about a pregnancy after it is too late) is a totally different situation to saying at the very beginning that continuing it is not what you want to do.

OP bless you what an awful shock.

I would let the dust settle tonight but tomorrow you sit down with him and explain what you expect and what he must do. Even if he doesn’t want the child he has to be financially responsible. If he doesn’t want to pay hand him his bags and say he has until July 1st to find somewhere to live. Why should you provide for your child when he won’t supply for his? Outrageous attitude.

Additionally can you reach out to the ex? Your son not wanting to be involved doesn’t mean you can’t be. My friend’s little sister has this exact set up with the father of her son. He has never met the child but his mum has the baby at least once a week.

On a side note open up a bottle of wine, congratulations Nana!

@CharlotteRose90

Well, so far all OP has done is ask her son what the woman's name is and accepted his answer of "it doesnt matter".

That's an awful discovery. Poor OP :-/

I think you need to sit your entitled son down and have a conversation about....
Responsibility
Contraception
Women's right to choose
And to pay maintenance to the child,regardless of the circumstances.
He was willing to have sex so now he acts like an adult.
I would be so ashamed of his childish actions.
To deny and hide a child is appalling!

Well this has turned into a depressing read. There isn’t really a right side here as it’s possible to construct valid arguments for either side. It all entirely depends on your own values and ethics, both of which are going to be intensely personal. There is no standardised rational proof for any particular ethical system.

I don’t usually like resorting to utilitarianism, but in cases like this I am very much persuaded in situations like these to focus entirely on the outcomes for any potential children and the data is clear. Adoption will on average lead to better life outcomes for unplanned children where the father doesn’t want to be involved, and the mother is economically unable to meet the child’s needs on her own.

Note I’m not in anyway making a case that any sort of enforcement either societal or legal to force that outcome should be made, simply that data on adoptions is worth bringing up.

Neither parent in this sorry scenario seem to be covering themselves in glory here based upon what we know. I feel sorry for the child.