To think modern life is shit for mums

[barelycoping1]

I have a 1 year old son and would give anything to be a SAHM. I don’t want to put him in nursery or with a childminder, I’m his mum and I want to bring him up myself - not pay someone else to do it. I want to spend every precious moment with him because he’s our first and last and I’ll never get to experience this special time again.

Sadly though I have no choice but to return to work so we can pay our mortgage and bills. I don’t earn that much more than the cost of nursery, but it is about £350 difference every month so worth it.

I just feel sad that I don’t have a choice in the matter thanks to the sodding cost of living and sky high rents/mortgages now. I wish we were back in the days where one salary could easily cover the mortgage on an average home. Hose prices have essentially adjusted now to mean that both parents need to work to keep a roof over their heads.

Also because I’m back at work, my free time is a constant battle trying to keep the house in order and deal with life admin. I’ve lost touch with quite a few friends because I have so little time.

AIBU to hate the fact that I have to go back to work and to feel sad that I’m missing out on time with my son? I know some people will say to find a job I love, but there’s no job in the world that I’d rather do than be a SAHM.

I feel so stretched all the time and like I’m on a hamster wheel and can’t get off. If this is what having it all means then it’s just shit, sorry. What can I do to change my life for the better?

** was a teacher in a previous life and I treat my time as a SAHM in a similar timetabled way. Activities, tidy up time, outdoor activities, lunch, story, phonics, numeracy, mark making, painting, model making, salt dough. I take them out 6 days a week.
It’s different to teaching other people’s children. In some ways it’s much more enjoyable (there’s no red tape, if we want to go to the zoo we don’t need permission or health and safety checks for example)**

I wouldn’t say it was easier or less work though.

Wow! No wonder I didn’t see my five year as equivalent to a job!!

If you want change, you need to make it happen. Move to a smaller place, move to the country, work at night, earn some extra cash through babysitting/sewing/ cleaning/ironing, cut bak on your current spending....you can make it wrk, but it will take some hard sacrifices. It also mean you might not be able to jump back into the workforce when ready; only you know if you can do this...

@thepeopleversuswork

Unfortunately I don’t think the pendulum has anywhere near swung the other way - SAHM’s are now largely belittled and discriminated against - mainly by working women.

You say you HAVE to work - in an ideal world it should be your choice. And feminists should fight for it to be your choice.

The reality is that young toddlers need a lot of looking after. Nappy changes, feeding, playing, teaching etc. Someone has to do it. Why should this largely be minimum wage nursery workers IF the child’s own mother WANTS to do this?

Some mothers are in tears dropping their one year olds off because they’re forced back to work, when they’re not ready and just want to be with child. Is this really the ideal that feminists fought for?

Surely staying at home full or part time during the early years should be fought for as a viable option by modern feminists? As something that is in the best interests of mothers who WANT to do this.

"Some mothers are in tears dropping their one year olds off because they’re forced back to work, when they’re not ready and just want to be with child. Is this really the ideal that feminists fought for?"

I cried on the first day I took my child to nursery. I was so upset. But I knew it was the right thing to do. It's OK to be upset, it's not OK to jeopardise your financial security and that of your child's because you don't want to go back to work. It's an unfortunate fact of life that most people have to work. It might not be an ideal solution but it doesn't make it any less crucial.

@AllTheUsernamesAreAlreadyTaken

Sending my DD to nursery 4 days a week from 6 months old was the best decision we could have made. She's an incredibly confident and fun young lady which is undoubtedly from socialising from a young age. I think it's quite selfish to keep them at home with you and not best for their development.

Good for you. I’m glad it worked out for you and you’re secure in your decision.
It’s not the choice we made for our family and our children’s development is also fantastic. Being a SAHM rarely involves staying at home all day (I’ve never seen a single episode of Loose Women, if you can believe it)

This!!!

[quote Belinda500]@thepeopleversuswork

"But the emphasis of that point is that valuing the SAHM was a key goal of feminism..."

You really can't stop can you?

Again no one said it was the key goal of anything. I will keep calling you out on your bullying because it's just rude.

I made the point because it's relevant to the discussion. It was one of the early issues that feminists fought for. It is still relevant because for whatever reason, women sometimes feel strongly that they want to be with their children longer than is expected these days. That you would be so aggressive about this choice is mystifying.[/quote]
I don't think I am being aggressive: this is a discussion thread and I'm as entitled to my opinion as you are. I don't agree with you and I don't see why I should be expected to withdraw into a corner.

I feel very strongly about this, mainly because I have absolutely no choice but to work and taking time off with my children has never been on the table for me. I've been discriminated against a lot at work because I have childcare responsibilities and a lot of that comes down to the expectation that women with childcare responsibilities should not be in the workforce. It seeps throughout the work environment.

So for me, people arguing that they want to spend as much time with their children is totally understandable. Who doesn't want this?. But what you're not taking into account is that if this starts to be positioned as a feminist choice it doesn't only impact on you as an individual, it impacts negatively on people like me because it normalises the idea that the worlds of childcare and work should not mix. I've had to deal with this every day of my working life: constant sniping and tutting about people leaving early because they have to pick up their children, not being available for out of hours calls etc. Because I don't have a husband who will support me to spend lots of time with my children I desperately need for my right, for example, to be able to work flexibly to be preserved. If we remove more of the few fragile guardrails we've built that allow women with children to have a seat at the table we chip away at what autonomy and independence we have built.

As I've said many times, I 'm not arguing that people should have to get back to the office as fast as they can. What I'm asking people to think about is that pushing the message that staying at home is a feminist choice makes society much harder to negotiate for those who have to work.

We're clearly not going to agree on this but I'm not going to be told I can't put my position forward because it doesn't align with yours.

Some mothers are in tears dropping their one year olds off because they’re forced back to work, when they’re not ready and just want to be with child. Is this really the ideal that feminists fought for?...Surely staying at home full or part time during the early years should be fought for as a viable option by modern feminists? As something that is in the best interests of mothers who WANT to do this

It IS a viable option, its what many of us DO! And no, that does not mean (as I know what you will say) that those of us who did so were privileged to be able to, that we must be rich or supported by rich men. It means we made our choices and we set up our lives to enable those choices.
Which OP could do. Stop expecting your choices to be handed to you on a silver platter. You have all the choices, but you have to make them happen.

@thepeopleversuswork

Then stop misquoting me and make your point. But this isn't just about you. SAHMs are relatively uncommon these days and they are not seeking to indermine you.

Some mothers are in tears dropping their one year olds off because they’re forced back to work, when they’re not ready and just want to be with child. Is this really the ideal that feminists fought for?...Surely staying at home full or part time during the early years should be fought for as a viable option by modern feminists? As something that is in the best interests of mothers who WANT to do this

What would you suggest?

I am worried about some of the advice given to the OP here. Would this advice be given to a man that wanted to give up work? Become a childminder.... do cleaning in the evenings.... get a job in a supermarket? Work definitely isn't the be all and end all of life, but I think it is much better advice to get a higher salary and then go part time to spend more time with the kids, but retain earning potential, rather than trapping yourself in low paid work. In our family, I'm the breadwinner and my husband's wage is nbot currently enough to pay for nursery, so we will be operating at a loss out of his earnings, but his salary is looking to dramatically increase in the next few years and so it makes a lot more sense for him to stay in work. ALSO, the childcare costs are coming out of my salary (as with all major expenses) as he doesn't earn enough to pay for them. So I never understand when women on mumsnet say their salary will only cover childcare by X amount. It's a family expense.

but I think it is much better advice to get a higher salary and then go part time to spend more time with the kids, but retain earning potential, rather than trapping yourself in low paid work

It's idiotic advice. Just go get a higher salary with better earning potential...Oh thanks so much! that never occurred to me! I definitely would have just done some cleaning work but now you've put on the right track, I'll go be an accountant or a human rights lawyer, tomorrow.
Fucks sake.

[quote Belinda500]@thepeopleversuswork

Then stop misquoting me and make your point. But this isn't just about you. SAHMs are relatively uncommon these days and they are not seeking to indermine you.[/quote]
Of course it isn't just about me. It's about all working mothers. I can only speak from personal experience. I'm just asking you to consider that positioning staying at home as a feminist choice has some fairly negative consequences for those of us who can't or don't want to make that feminist choice.

SAHMs are less common than they were. But women still face huge hurdles when they do work, not least the fact that their husbands and partners often don't really support their goals at work. And female breadwinners are still fairly thin on the ground. I'm very happy for women to be SAHMs if they want to but I'm not happy for it to be sold as a "feminist choice".

@PaperbackRider - sorry I didn't mean go a get a better paying job - I meant don't leave a better paying job to go down to a minimum wage one

Hi OP. I agree. I hate not having the choice l'm a single mum and my children hate me working. I lost my job during lockdown. They LOVED having me at home and I loved being there. Im thinking of ways around this too. Preferably, I'd like to work from home when they're in school in a call centre type role but can't seem to find anything. Have you thought of leaving you're job and setting up as a childminder? That way you could be at home for your son, earn money and have some little friends to play with during the day?

Your son could have some little friends to play with I mean

*I've been discriminated against a lot at work because I have childcare responsibilities and a lot of that comes down to the expectation that women with childcare responsibilities should not be in the workforce. It seeps throughout the work environment.

As I've said many times, I 'm not arguing that people should have to get back to the office as fast as they can. What I'm asking people to think about is that pushing the message that staying at home is a feminist choice makes society much harder to negotiate for those who have to work*

Advocating for the right to choose (work or SAHM) in the early years shouldn’t be at odds with empowering women to excel at work. By refusing to address the right to choose as a feminist issue, you are silencing the voice of women who don’t want to work in the early years but are forced to.

Effectively telling women the lack of support around caring for their own children shouldn’t be campaigned for as a feminist issue puts the onus on women, to fix a very difficult societal problem.

Having children takes a huge amount of time and investment - and if you are a single mum then of course there will be times this will
Impact your work (unless you have an army of nannies).

If you’ve faced discrimination - it’s not right to place blame on other women for perpetuating the idea that women want to stay at home with children. Blame should be placed with your employers and society in general - for not recognising the needs of you as a mother to provide childcare whilst working.

Legislation to protect working mothers, incentives to businesses for employing mothers working part time, and increased state financial support for mothers during the early years would all be a good start to fixing this problem.

Incentives for businesses to employ mothers who have been out of work for a while would also help solve this problem. It would take away the fear of your career being over if you take a couple of years out.

A lot of folk might prefer not to work and pursue hobbies. But it means somebody else has to support them or they have private means.

If you’ve faced discrimination - it’s not right to place blame on other women for perpetuating the idea that women want to stay at home with children. Blame should be placed with your employers and society in general - for not recognising the needs of you as a mother to provide childcare whilst working.

Of course. It's not about placing blame.

It's just about asking people to think about the way that these messages impact on society at large.

Could you move to an area with lower cost of living? There are loads of lovely places in England that are cheaper than London for example where quality of life are just as good if not better.

Absolutely spot on @Anonwoman.

*thepeopleversuswork

Belinda500
@thepeopleversuswork

*Then stop misquoting me and make your point. But this isn't just about you. SAHMs are relatively uncommon these days and they are not seeking to indermine you.
Of course it isn't just about me. It's about all working mothers. I can only speak from personal experience. I'm just asking you to consider that positioning staying at home as a feminist choice has some fairly negative consequences for those of us who can't or don't want to make that feminist choice.

SAHMs are less common than they were. But women still face huge hurdles when they do work, not least the fact that their husbands and partners often don't really support their goals at work. And female breadwinners are still fairly thin on the ground. I'm very happy for women to be SAHMs if they want to but I'm not happy for it to be sold as a "feminist choice".*

I'm just asking you to consider that positioning staying at home as a feminist choice has some fairly negative consequences for those of us who can't or don't want to make that feminist choice.

Do you not see that by including the word “can’t” in that sentence you’re making the exact point we are. “Can’t” wouldn’t be the correct modal verb if it was a choice. Women should have the choice to work or to stay at home. Women should have their work either in the work place or at home valued. They shouldn’t be seen as lower status for staying at home. It shouldn’t impact on their career to take a break to SAH. That’s feminist stance.

I can understand how people are different and that some people want to stay at home ,and it must seem unfair to them unfair if they can't afford to do so.but whats the alternative,the state paying for a parent to stay at home ?
Can't see that flying

@Viviennemary

A lot of folk might prefer not to work and pursue hobbies. But it means somebody else has to support them or they have private means.

@Viviennemary Again with the mother shaming. Who said anything about hobbies??? The OP didn't mention hobbies, are you suggesting that raising children is a hobby? Such belittling language, another way of shaming and bullying.