To think modern life is shit for mums

[barelycoping1]

I have a 1 year old son and would give anything to be a SAHM. I don’t want to put him in nursery or with a childminder, I’m his mum and I want to bring him up myself - not pay someone else to do it. I want to spend every precious moment with him because he’s our first and last and I’ll never get to experience this special time again.

Sadly though I have no choice but to return to work so we can pay our mortgage and bills. I don’t earn that much more than the cost of nursery, but it is about £350 difference every month so worth it.

I just feel sad that I don’t have a choice in the matter thanks to the sodding cost of living and sky high rents/mortgages now. I wish we were back in the days where one salary could easily cover the mortgage on an average home. Hose prices have essentially adjusted now to mean that both parents need to work to keep a roof over their heads.

Also because I’m back at work, my free time is a constant battle trying to keep the house in order and deal with life admin. I’ve lost touch with quite a few friends because I have so little time.

AIBU to hate the fact that I have to go back to work and to feel sad that I’m missing out on time with my son? I know some people will say to find a job I love, but there’s no job in the world that I’d rather do than be a SAHM.

I feel so stretched all the time and like I’m on a hamster wheel and can’t get off. If this is what having it all means then it’s just shit, sorry. What can I do to change my life for the better?

Women being afforded the same opportunities as men (ie multiple opportunities to choose from) sounds very much like choice to me.
Sounds an awful lot like someone does seem to understand systemic oppression.
Women and men don't have the same opportunities. That's sort of the point.

But the solution to that isn't to argue that remaining at home with children is the best position for these women! It's to make it easier for women with children to work!

Is it at all possible for posters to engage with the facts on the page not in their heads?

No-one has said it’s the ‘best position’. That is a matter of personal choice.

@Sometimesfraught82

I was a SAHM for 5 years. No family support whatsoever

I enjoyed it. Ups and down. “Work” it was not!! And I never argued that it was. I would have felt positively embarrassed to.

Now I’m back at work. Very different.

I was a teacher in a previous life and I treat my time as a SAHM in a similar timetabled way. Activities, tidy up time, outdoor activities, lunch, story, phonics, numeracy, mark making, painting, model making, salt dough. I take them out 6 days a week. It’s different to teaching other people’s children. In some ways it’s much more enjoyable (there’s no red tape, if we want to go to the zoo we don’t need permission or health and safety checks for example)

I wouldn’t say it was easier or less work though.

"What not like nannying or being a cleaner or a housekeeper?

Think how much you would have to have paid people to do your roles if you’d chosen to work.

Can you really not see that your ‘embarrassment’ at calling it a job is partly due to the denigration of women’s work in the home?"

Do you seriously think looking after your own kids and home is the same as someone else doing it? You're doing it because you've made a decision in your family to do that. You've decided not to work and stay at home with your kids. That was your decision. That's fine.

Getting someone else in to look after your kids and home would be employment and would need payment because it's not the person's kids or home!! They have their own families to feed and pay for, why would they do it for free? You're doing it for free because you want to.

But the solution to that isn't to argue that remaining at home with children is the best position for these women! It's to make it easier for women with children to work

Why!!? They are already working - looking after small children IS work? Why do you only consider childcare to be work if it is looking after someone else’s children? Or do you honestly think nannies and nursery workers aren’t working either?

The answer is actually to empower women to choose to work or stay home - whatever is best for their family.

Not everyone needs to go to a formal work setting and receive a salary to contribute to society and have a meaningful life.

@Anonwoman

But the solution to that isn't to argue that remaining at home with children is the best position for these women! It's to make it easier for women with children to work

Why!!? They are already working - looking after small children IS work? Why do you only consider childcare to be work if it is looking after someone else’s children? Or do you honestly think nannies and nursery workers aren’t working either?

The answer is actually to empower women to choose to work or stay home - whatever is best for their family.

Not everyone needs to go to a formal work setting and receive a salary to contribute to society and have a meaningful life.

Hear, hear!

@TatianaBis

But the solution to that isn't to argue that remaining at home with children is the best position for these women! It's to make it easier for women with children to work!

Is it at all possible for posters to engage with the facts on the page not in their heads?

No-one has said it’s the ‘best position’. That is a matter of personal choice.

Sorry, but @Belinda500 keeps arguing that the primary goal of the feminist movement was to allow women to remain at home with their children.

I'm just trying to call out some of the magical thinking around this "choice" trope.

Not everyone needs to go to a formal work setting and receive a salary to contribute to society and have a meaningful life.

No one is arguing this. Some people are arguing that childcare/wifework is work. I have no problem with this definition although some do.

What I do object to is this argument that keeps being made that the feminist movement was all designed to "empower" women to remain at home. It's bollocks.

@FlippinFedUp21

Seriously?

In very basic terms - if a couple with kids want to continue in FT work they need to pay for childcare. Which costs a bomb. And cleaning too if they don’t have time/energy to do it themselves.

Idk what average nursery fees are currently in London, but average nanny salary is 45k. Cleaners are around £15 ph.

Sorry, but @Belinda500* keeps arguing that the primary goal of the feminist movement was to allow women to remain at home with their children.

I'm just trying to call out some of the magical thinking around this "choice" trope.*

No she doesn’t. That’s you being a reductionist

@thepeopleversuswork

Exactly WHERE did I say the primary goal of feminism anything. I said they fought tooth and nail. It's the mark of a bully to change words in this manner, misquote and then denigrate just to get the upper hand.

To be honest OP I think opinions like yours are actually the reason women are still fighting for equality. Why we're still being expected to take on the childcare (and work).

Sending my DD to nursery 4 days a week from 6 months old was the best decision we could have made. She's an incredibly confident and fun young lady which is undoubtedly from socialising from a young age. I think it's quite selfish to keep them at home with you and not best for their development.

I got to return to my career, she's had a great start in life and my husband does his 50% on all parenting. The first few years juggling childcare and work are undoubtedly much harder than choosing to stay at home but in the longer term the damage done to your career is pretty much long term if you choose to drop out of the workplace for so long.

We say we want equality, but then you say you'd prefer to bea SAHM. You can't have it both ways.

@thepeopleversuswork

Sorry, but @Belinda500 keeps arguing that the primary goal of the feminist movement was to allow women to remain at home with their children

My bold: No she hasn’t, that’s your misunderstanding.

@thepeopleversuswork

No one has actually said that about the feminist movement I think you’re just interpreting things very narrowly and misunderstanding the arguments being made.

People are saying feminism is about choice - the choice to work IF women want to. That’s want modern feminism means to me anyway.

And I would never judge a women for working if it was best for her family.

At the same time - I wouldn’t expect to be judged for (mainly) staying at home with my toddler. Sadly though - many narrow minded women on here (not saying you) refuse to acknowledge that what I do is a valid life choice, which deserves equal respect to their jobs.

[quote Belinda500]@thepeopleversuswork

Exactly WHERE did I say the primary goal of feminism anything. I said they fought tooth and nail. It's the mark of a bully to change words in this manner, misquote and then denigrate just to get the upper hand.[/quote]
You said: "feminists fought tooth and nail to have raising children and running a home considered to be work, an equal contribution".

I'm sorry if you consider me to be a bully but I didn't misquote or denigrate. But when I see something that just isn't true I will call people on it. This is just not what feminism is about.

You need a bit of work on your comprehension skills @thepeopleversuswork

Saying: feminists fought tooth and nail to have raising children and running a home considered to be work, an equal contribution"

Does not equate to the primary goal.

Sorry OP, I disagree.

Yes it's tough that cost of living is so high, but things were not better in the days when women didn't have the same choices we do now in working and when we didn't have the appliances and supermarkets that make life so much easier.

You are still bringing your dc up if you use childcare.

If you want to be at home with them, consider becoming a CM.

Or find a job where you work evenings/nights.

Or change your lifestyle to live in a place that you can afford to do so on one income. I wouldn't personally advise this. Does your dh love his job? Or would he quite like to spend some more time at home bringing up your dc too?

@thepeopleversuswork

You said that I said, that the PRIMARY goal of feminism was etc etc. So infuriating, read your own post FGS!!!

@TatianaBis

You need a bit of work on your comprehension skills *@thepeopleversuswork*

Saying: feminists fought tooth and nail to have raising children and running a home considered to be work, an equal contribution"

Does not equate to the primary goal.

You are incredibly rude.

How do we know whether a factor in the epidemic of teenage depression isn’t children going to nursery at a very young age, for very long hours and for most of the week?

They are there from 8-6 often. Where is the one to one attention? Where is there mental space to dream and play as they want?

I am not saying this because I know the answers but would be interested to know.

You said: "feminists fought tooth and nail to have raising children and running a home considered to be work, an equal contribution

Yes but she didn’t say that was ALL that the feminist movement was about, did she?

What I take from that quote is that part of the movement was about acknowledging women’s worth in society. At a point when most women didn’t work outside the house, acknowledging the important contribution women made by doing housework and childcare would have been part of earning them the equal respect they deserved, IN ADDITION to later gaining them the right to work if they wanted to.

There was so much to the feminist movement - right to vote, right not to be raped or beaten by husband, right to own property. Feminism wasn’t all about getting back to the f*cking office the minute your child turns one.

@TatianaBis

You need a bit of work on your comprehension skills *@thepeopleversuswork*

Saying: feminists fought tooth and nail to have raising children and running a home considered to be work, an equal contribution"

Does not equate to the primary goal.

But the emphasis of that point is that valuing the SAHM was a key goal of feminism. I just don't accept that. As I've said before feminists value women who remain at home as much as they value women who do paid work and they certainly have always lobbied for raising children to be valued. But that really wasn't what the 1970s feminists were preoccupied with. They were primarily concerned with enabling women to participate in the workforce and critically for them to have more financial freedom.

I have no problem with valuing women who remain at home. But it troubles me that the pendulum has shifted so its now seen as a proactive feminist choice to opt out of the workforce. There are all sorts of reasons why choosing not to work might be great for your personal situation and your family. But large numbers of women opting out of the workforce to look after their children is not necessarily supportive of feminism because it risks making it harder for those of who choose to or (in my case) have to work. So I'm uncomfortable with it being presented as a proactively feminist decision.

@thepeopleversuswork

"But the emphasis of that point is that valuing the SAHM was a key goal of feminism..."

You really can't stop can you?

Again no one said it was the key goal of anything. I will keep calling you out on your bullying because it's just rude.

I made the point because it's relevant to the discussion. It was one of the early issues that feminists fought for. It is still relevant because for whatever reason, women sometimes feel strongly that they want to be with their children longer than is expected these days. That you would be so aggressive about this choice is mystifying.

Have you spoken with your partner will they support you? would you be able to go back to your career after 1-2 years out, is there something you can do from home possibly work part time? if thats what you really want, go through all your out goings see where you can cut back, things to consider get rid of your mobile possibly saving £50 per month. Maybe go to a pay as you go £10 per month instead. Stop having nails/eyelashes done every month possible saving £40-50 per month, cut down on clothes spending maybe do a course and make your own, get rid of netflix/sky saving approx £80- per month ect. IF you REALLY want this then you can make it work if you try.

Sending my DD to nursery 4 days a week from 6 months old was the best decision we could have made. She's an incredibly confident and fun young lady which is undoubtedly from socialising from a young age. I think it's quite selfish to keep them at home with you and not best for their development.

Good for you. I’m glad it worked out for you and you’re secure in your decision.
It’s not the choice we made for our family and our children’s development is also fantastic. Being a SAHM rarely involves staying at home all day (I’ve never seen a single episode of Loose Women, if you can believe it)