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A message from a trans friend. International Day Against Homophobia, Transphobia and Biphobia .....

999 replies

Biber · 18/05/2021 09:59

Apparently today is the International Day Against Homophobia, Transphobia and Biphobia...

I shall do my part, so here are a few things that might help others to understand better.

Everyone has to go to the toilet at some point. I think even for many non-trans people, public toilets are often only used as a last resort (has anyone ever actually been inside a "nice" public toilet?). This is also the case for trans people. No one uses them unless the really have to. Trans people aren't thinking about what's down there on other people or anything like that (only perverts are). Trans people just want to avoid making a stinking mess in their underwear, without having to prove what they themselves have (or haven't got) down there (i.e. some dignity would be nice). No one should feel uncomfortable doing their business and everyone is entitled to privacy. That applies to both trans and non-trans people. If someone does make you feel uncomfortable through their actions (not by how they dress or present themselves), then you should do something about it, because you in fact are likely not the only one who will be uncomfortable.
In short, why aren't all public toilets individual and completely private? Do spare a thought for those of us with more generalised anxiety disorders...

There are some people who are quite happy to include trans people once they have fully transitioned, i.e. undergone surgery. That's great, we just need to tell our doctors and the trust who is going to fund the surgery and the surgeons and the hospital where we will be having the surgery that they all need to bloody well hurry up so that we can have the surgery and be finally be included. Don't they realise that if we have to wait another year, we are going to continue to be excluded? That some people will still deny us the right to use certain facilities (the loo in some cases)? Forget the fact that it would be great to have the surgery as soon as possible so that we can be comfortable with ourselves and get on with our lives... So, trans people are being "temporarily excluded" because they cannot speed up a system (that they themselves so badly want to speed up), which is already under-resourced and overwhelmed saving people's lives.
Oh, and btw, trans people are aware that it isn't the surgery that finally makes them the other sex/gender. They know they are more likely to see a properly funded and resourced NHS under the Tories than they are to ever have children once they have had the surgery; that it's all a sort of compromise/this is the best that can be done with your body. But until or unless huge advances are made in medicine and surgery, this is the best that can be achieved for now. Well, it is better than nothing. After all, it hasn't even been 100 years yet since the first sex reassignment surgery was performed.

Of course, that is assuming all transgender people can have surgery, or even want surgery. As surprising as it may sound, transgender people come in all sorts - old and young, short and tall, all sorts of ethnicities, cool, boring, fun, smart, stupid... Oh, and they also differ in terms of their gender identities and presentation (the clue is after all in the term). Some of them might just not be very conventional in terms of their presentation and behaviour, have no interest in taking hormones, and definitely do not want surgery. Others will go all the way and do it so well that you will doubt they are telling the truth about them being trans, even as they shove a copy of their birth certificate and their baby pictures in your face. A lot of people are somewhere inbetween. One does have to wonder how a single term can be used to describe such a diverse range of people! With that in mind, I propose we rename it to "gender-diverse" (like "neuro-diverse"), because "diverse" seems like such a good word at the moment, right?

Trans people exist. Always have, always will. Everywhere. If you have a friend who is trans and is happy to speak to you about it and answer any questions you have, then do speak to them about it. This is important. Why? Because not all trans people are so happy or willing to talk about it. Why? Because how many times do you have to explain the same things over and over again to people who will, despite their best intentions, never really get it? To a society that at present, partly excludes you at best, and at worst tries to kill you. A society where your rights and existence are denied, where people don't believe you, and you spend a long time waiting in uncertainty. Speaking of uncertainty, trans people have one thing to thank covid-19 for: every single person in the world now knows what it is like to have their live on hold for a long period of time, faced with uncertainties in a situation far beyond their control, in a system that is not prepared to deal with them. Now you all have an understanding of what it is like emotionally to be trans (though without the gender bit), and I'm sorry because I would not have wished that even on my worst enemies (ok, well maybe for a few weeks at most for the worst of the worst).

And with that, I bid you all a happy International Day Against Homophobia, Transphobia and Biphobia!

OP posts:
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LaBellina · 18/05/2021 11:14

You do realize OP that this forum is mainly used by women who are very well capable of doing some independent thinking?
Nobody here is going to fall for your mansplaining/internalized misogyny.
It’s always the same thing, women are the bad guys, now we are even accused of wanting to stop trans people of using any toilet at all. The gaslighting is so obvious, nobody here is going to fall for this.

BrumBoo · 18/05/2021 11:16

@Biber a question for you as well, if it's International Day Against Homophobia and Biphobia as well as Transphobia, where is your essay about the homophobia currently thrown at lesbians for refusing to accept a 'female penis' when dating? Where is your fight about changing the very meaning of being gay - a sex based attraction in to gender attraction? Do you even accept that this isn't an 'us vs them' situation, that modern gender ideology is having a negative effect on the LGBT community as a whole?

fruitbrewhaha · 18/05/2021 11:17

I don't know why you stress that no one wants to use a public loo, as a middle aged women post childbirth I have to use them all the time, I didn't realise they were so awful.

Prisons, sports, hospitals what about them? By including men you exclude women. I don't want to be on a hospital ward with a man. If I end up in prison, I don't want to be in a cell with a man. I don't want my daughter who plays rugby to play against men. Even if that man thinks of himself as a women, and then presents as one.

Studies show that surgery doesn't help gender dysphoria. No one is denying people with gender dysphoria exist or need help but perhaps amputation is not the answer.

We don't' think all transwomen are rapists in the same way we don't think all priests are paedophiles, but many men went to great lengths including years at theological college to become priests in order to gain access to children. So we are aware of the lengths men will go to. So putting on a wig and calling himself Karen White was not a big deal to someone.

MimiDaisy11 · 18/05/2021 11:17

Some of them might just not be very conventional in terms of their presentation and behaviour, have no interest in taking hormones, and definitely do not want surgery.

The ones who don't use hormones and don't have surgery are not interested in being perceived as the opposite sex and don't have dysmorphia connected with their sex. Otherwise, they'd have to do something to address it. I agree this group of people with dysmorphia, though tiny, has always existed. But there's a social influence that encourages other people to classify themselves as trans. It gives them power over women.

Also, the average person doesn't seem aware that to be trans you don't need to have/want to appear as the opposite sex. Definitions like "woman" are now reduced to some subjective state of mind that can't be described.

I agree the trans umbrella includes lots of people who have very little in common but that's the fault of people who decided that you didn't need to have dysmorphia to be trans. And who started including drag queens and crossdressers in the group.

MimiDaisy11 · 18/05/2021 11:18

I meant dysphoria not dysmorphia*

Sparklfairy · 18/05/2021 11:19

The OP won't be back so I'm wasting my time but OP, if you do happen to see this:

The problem is not transpeople, or 'intolerant' women.

The problem is violent/sexually deviant men who ruin it for everyone else.

Remove those from the equation and everyone would coexist peacefully.

Instead of focussing your attention on trying to make women conform, how about directing that attention towards male violence, male aggression, male sex attacks that plague the rest of us.

Easier to take the bullets out of the gun in the first place rather than try and treat the wound after it's been fired.

ANewDawnANewDay · 18/05/2021 11:19

Are you really a friend OP? @Biber ? If so, why are you so insistent on throwing vulnerable women under the bus?
Can we not instead find a solution that gives us both our dignity?

Nomorepies · 18/05/2021 11:19

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on the poster's request

CuriousaboutSamphire · 18/05/2021 11:20

@financialrecovery

Jesus is there anything trans people can have without being jumped on 🙄
Yes! The y have, and nobody is trying to remove, the same rights as anyone else. The right to live without discrimination, without harm etc etc.

And you might like to think... International Women's Day had a HUGE reaction. Men, TRAs etc swarmed all over various women's social media spaces, commented on all sorts of women's rights posts and did all the whataboutery, telling women to fuck off etc.

Today find me a spot where women, GC women, have invaded all the places trans people post, inhabit etc.

And remember THIS space is where women discuss women's rights and look - someone has posted to tell us off for yet more shit we haven't done!

Go figure!!

TeenMinusTests · 18/05/2021 11:20

I've spent too long on helping DD's English GCSE. I kept seeing IDAHOBIT yesterday, and all I could think about was IC DA FOREST.

Caplin · 18/05/2021 11:20

OP, I agree with you, but on Mumsnet there is no empathy for trans people, just dogma for a risk which is miniscule at best.

On the basis I doubt any of the people getting their knickers in a knot have ever met a trans person, let alone been assaulted by one, I fear this is an issue which we will never convince them of.

But FWIW I am a trans ally and always will be.

Tibtom · 18/05/2021 11:21

It is a bit like sport: "women want to deny transgender their right to take part in sport!" more properly translates as women want to be able play sport safely and fairly and think men, who have many advantages due to male puberty including muscle strength, heart and lung capacity, pelvis shape etc, should play sport with their own sex."

Ihatefish · 18/05/2021 11:23

Cant we just have a toilet for people with a penis and others for people without a penis, you could call them male and female toilets (in this case referring to sex not gender)

MessedOfTimes · 18/05/2021 11:23

God, I wish voting was enabled. There’s so much wrong with this thing that I couldn’t even be fucked. Makes me wanna sign off, “Night all! Meet you back at square one same time tomorrow!” 🤦🏻‍♀️YOU ARE BEING NAUSEATINGLY UNREASONABLE!!!

dementedma · 18/05/2021 11:23

Use the toilets designated for your sex.

IsThePopeCatholic · 18/05/2021 11:24

The day women are no longer attacked or killed by men, I’ll support mixed sex toilets. Until then, I’ll keep my spaces safe.

Tibtom · 18/05/2021 11:24

On the basis I doubt any of the people getting their knickers in a knot have ever met a trans person, let alone been assaulted by one, I fear this is an issue which we will never convince them of.

It only counts if you have personal experience? Those women who have already been assaulted or had their privacy ignored don't count? Do you apply the same to other situations? Do you drink drive because you have never met someone who have been killed by a drunk driver?

IsThePopeCatholic · 18/05/2021 11:25

@RockPainting

"Women exist. Always have, always will. Everywhere. If you have a friend who is a woman and is happy to speak to you about it and answer any questions you have, then do speak to them about it. This is important. Why? Because not all women are so happy or willing to talk about it. Why? Because how many times do you have to explain the same things over and over again to people who will, despite their best intentions, never really get it? To a society that at present, partly excludes you at best, and at worst tries to kill you. A society where your rights and existence are denied, where people don't believe you, and you spend a long time waiting in uncertainty. Speaking of uncertainty, women have one thing to thank covid-19 for: every single person in the world now knows what it is like to have their live on hold for a long period of time, faced with uncertainties in a situation far beyond their control, in a system that is not prepared to deal with them. Now you all have an understanding of what it is like emotionally to be female, and I'm sorry because I would not have wished that even on my worst enemies."

There you go OP, I've made some changes for you.

Exactly!
doublehalo · 18/05/2021 11:27

Surely it's high time for a campaign to clean up men's toilets and make them safe and usable for transwomen?

It's 2021. There is absolutely no reason for men's toilets to be awash with urine and faeces and to stink to high heaven.

Men need to take some responsibility for themselves and educate and police each other.

Jesusmaryjosephandthecamel · 18/05/2021 11:27

I just want to be able to go into a women’s loo and know there will be no men in there. I want to be able to use a women’s changing room and know there will be no men in there. I want to be called a woman. I want to be able to call myself a woman. I don’t want my right eroded. I’m sick of it. It’s endless.

Whythesadface · 18/05/2021 11:28

I like the Penis and Vagina loos idea.
What a great idea.
Maybe we can also have a 3rd loo for those that are upset.
I wonder what would happen if we stuck stickers up on toilet doors.

LalalalalalaLand123 · 18/05/2021 11:28

Any further comments OP @Biber ? Or did you just make your post to be goady and misogynistic? Thought so.

CuriousaboutSamphire · 18/05/2021 11:29

@Caplin

OP, I agree with you, but on Mumsnet there is no empathy for trans people, just dogma for a risk which is miniscule at best.

On the basis I doubt any of the people getting their knickers in a knot have ever met a trans person, let alone been assaulted by one, I fear this is an issue which we will never convince them of.

But FWIW I am a trans ally and always will be.

Just going to point out hat this is all complete cobblers.

Empathy for transpeople is evdient. It is the political agiatation, TRA behaviour that is abhorrent. Even OP is 'an ally' not a trans person!

And some of us reacting ARE transmen and women. Many others have posted often about the persanal dilemma they and their trans friends have over TRA actions.

FWIW I am not a trans ally - but have been a close friend and support for over 30 years to 2 transpeople. Have been posting about/with them here for about 12 years! They are real people who need all the empathy they can get these days. Not because of anything I or most other women have said for done but because of crap TRAs persist with, like the OP!

Time to stop pretending that shit like this helps any transperson. It doesn't. It makes their lives far more complicated for a wide variety of reasons.

Which is why it is always 'allies' that pop up here to berate women for wanting to protect single sex spaces.

Ninefeettall · 18/05/2021 11:30

How many male-dominated forums have you posted this on today, OP?

anon12345678901 · 18/05/2021 11:31

@Jesusmaryjosephandthecamel

I just want to be able to go into a women’s loo and know there will be no men in there. I want to be able to use a women’s changing room and know there will be no men in there. I want to be called a woman. I want to be able to call myself a woman. I don’t want my right eroded. I’m sick of it. It’s endless.
This. Trans rights can't trample over women's rights.
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