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A message from a trans friend. International Day Against Homophobia, Transphobia and Biphobia .....

999 replies

Biber · 18/05/2021 09:59

Apparently today is the International Day Against Homophobia, Transphobia and Biphobia...

I shall do my part, so here are a few things that might help others to understand better.

Everyone has to go to the toilet at some point. I think even for many non-trans people, public toilets are often only used as a last resort (has anyone ever actually been inside a "nice" public toilet?). This is also the case for trans people. No one uses them unless the really have to. Trans people aren't thinking about what's down there on other people or anything like that (only perverts are). Trans people just want to avoid making a stinking mess in their underwear, without having to prove what they themselves have (or haven't got) down there (i.e. some dignity would be nice). No one should feel uncomfortable doing their business and everyone is entitled to privacy. That applies to both trans and non-trans people. If someone does make you feel uncomfortable through their actions (not by how they dress or present themselves), then you should do something about it, because you in fact are likely not the only one who will be uncomfortable.
In short, why aren't all public toilets individual and completely private? Do spare a thought for those of us with more generalised anxiety disorders...

There are some people who are quite happy to include trans people once they have fully transitioned, i.e. undergone surgery. That's great, we just need to tell our doctors and the trust who is going to fund the surgery and the surgeons and the hospital where we will be having the surgery that they all need to bloody well hurry up so that we can have the surgery and be finally be included. Don't they realise that if we have to wait another year, we are going to continue to be excluded? That some people will still deny us the right to use certain facilities (the loo in some cases)? Forget the fact that it would be great to have the surgery as soon as possible so that we can be comfortable with ourselves and get on with our lives... So, trans people are being "temporarily excluded" because they cannot speed up a system (that they themselves so badly want to speed up), which is already under-resourced and overwhelmed saving people's lives.
Oh, and btw, trans people are aware that it isn't the surgery that finally makes them the other sex/gender. They know they are more likely to see a properly funded and resourced NHS under the Tories than they are to ever have children once they have had the surgery; that it's all a sort of compromise/this is the best that can be done with your body. But until or unless huge advances are made in medicine and surgery, this is the best that can be achieved for now. Well, it is better than nothing. After all, it hasn't even been 100 years yet since the first sex reassignment surgery was performed.

Of course, that is assuming all transgender people can have surgery, or even want surgery. As surprising as it may sound, transgender people come in all sorts - old and young, short and tall, all sorts of ethnicities, cool, boring, fun, smart, stupid... Oh, and they also differ in terms of their gender identities and presentation (the clue is after all in the term). Some of them might just not be very conventional in terms of their presentation and behaviour, have no interest in taking hormones, and definitely do not want surgery. Others will go all the way and do it so well that you will doubt they are telling the truth about them being trans, even as they shove a copy of their birth certificate and their baby pictures in your face. A lot of people are somewhere inbetween. One does have to wonder how a single term can be used to describe such a diverse range of people! With that in mind, I propose we rename it to "gender-diverse" (like "neuro-diverse"), because "diverse" seems like such a good word at the moment, right?

Trans people exist. Always have, always will. Everywhere. If you have a friend who is trans and is happy to speak to you about it and answer any questions you have, then do speak to them about it. This is important. Why? Because not all trans people are so happy or willing to talk about it. Why? Because how many times do you have to explain the same things over and over again to people who will, despite their best intentions, never really get it? To a society that at present, partly excludes you at best, and at worst tries to kill you. A society where your rights and existence are denied, where people don't believe you, and you spend a long time waiting in uncertainty. Speaking of uncertainty, trans people have one thing to thank covid-19 for: every single person in the world now knows what it is like to have their live on hold for a long period of time, faced with uncertainties in a situation far beyond their control, in a system that is not prepared to deal with them. Now you all have an understanding of what it is like emotionally to be trans (though without the gender bit), and I'm sorry because I would not have wished that even on my worst enemies (ok, well maybe for a few weeks at most for the worst of the worst).

And with that, I bid you all a happy International Day Against Homophobia, Transphobia and Biphobia!

OP posts:
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DrSbaitso · 20/05/2021 19:10

No one can believe that a male born person who's been through male puberty and has the extra lung capacity, height weight and muscle density, should be playing with women?

Of course they don't. Not really. But they are scared of being labelled terfs, bigots and hatemongers, of being cancelled, of being intimidated online. They want to be seen as right on, on the right side of history, like the people who fought for equal marriage rights. The price is women's safety and protection. Nobody will outright say that they don't give a shit about those when penises make demands, doubtless they don't see it that way. But actions speak louder than words, and that's what's happening.

GlassBoxSpectacular · 20/05/2021 19:13

@PurgatoryOfPotholes

It's absolutely shocking, isn't it?

If you look at the image, that's the tweet for IDAHOBIT 2020 that Stonewall deleted. Defining and defending same-sex attraction is supposed to be the purpose of Stonewall!

Instead, they spend their time on social media campaigning for biological males to be permitted to play women's rugby, and goodness knows what else.

“Trans now implicitly includes any and all genders ...”

So we’re all trans, then? Even if your gender identity is ‘I have no gender identity’, you’re still trans according to that screenshot?

Who writes this shit? And who reads it and thinks ‘wow, yeah, that’s so profound and meaningful’? Hmm

stonecat · 20/05/2021 19:19

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GlassBoxSpectacular · 20/05/2021 19:22

@DrSbaitso

Interview with Simon Fanshawe OBE:

www.holyrood.com/inside-politics/view,cofounder-of-stonewall-calls-for-calm_14648.htm

"I have never seen a feminist placard that says, ‘Death to trans people’ but I have seen many placards that say, ‘Death to Terfs’ [trans-exclusionary radical feminists] or ‘Punch a Terf’. The violence coming towards lesbians is completely staggering...

"So, look, what I’m saying is that when gay people said they wanted to get married, that didn’t affect in any way the marriage that heterosexual people had because actually, the rights were then the same. One of the problems with self-identification becoming the basis for law is that it affects women. Negatively. Because it creates confusion between biology, social identity and the law. So firstly, you can’t change sex. I mean, that is really clear and intersex people are really fed up with being thrown under the bus about this...

"And the point about being female and the point about being male, is that there’s a biological reality to that. So why does that matter? Well, it matters because of the relationship that women have to men around reproduction, whether or not they actually have children or not, and what has been built on that reproductive relationship is a series of things that happened to women from men that oppress women. So, the threat of pregnancy puts women in a particular situation, consequently, the threats of abortion or the lack of access to abortion puts women in a situation and so it goes on. These are things based on the fact that women are actually female. So transwomen are not women, transwomen are transwomen and I respect them for that. When I went out to campaign for gay equality, I didn’t campaign to be heterosexual. I went out in the streets and I said, ‘I’m gay’. I am different, I may be a minority, but I want equal treatment under the law. I want trans women to have equal treatment under the law. I want them to be free from bullying and harassment and violence, but I absolutely can’t accept that they are women."

It's worth reading the whole thing though. It was hard choosing even just this much to quote.

This is brilliant, thank you.

It encapsulates exactly the issue: the bizarre pretence that we’re being made to collude in, whereby all differences between male and female physiology (and the associated social expectations and constraints) magically disappear via a cerebral process of self-identification.

Helleofabore · 20/05/2021 19:23

So, look, what I’m saying is that when gay people said they wanted to get married, that didn’t affect in any way the marriage that heterosexual people had because actually, the rights were then the same. One of the problems with self-identification becoming the basis for law is that it affects women. Negatively. Because it creates confusion between biology, social identity and the law. So firstly, you can’t change sex. I mean, that is really clear and intersex people are really fed up with being thrown under the bus about this...

Simon Fanshawe makes SO much sense. He cuts straight through. After decades of campaigning for Gay and Lesbian rights, he is very clear about the difference of the impacts of the two different movements.

Yet we are also constantly told this is just like the fight for Gay rights. Well, no. It most certainly is not. I have yet to see one gay and lesbian rights activist that agrees with that if they are not personally invested in the trans movement for whatever reason- work or personal.

Fernlake · 20/05/2021 19:32

@WoolOfBat

That is disgusting 🤮. I have heard it all now. Sanitary products??

How on earth do we separate the genuine trans women from the fetishists ?

It really has to be a blanket no.

I cant help thinking that those who make demands whilst ignoring women's boundaries and consent, would be a fairly good litmus test.
stonecat · 20/05/2021 19:40

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WoolOfBat · 20/05/2021 19:42

Stonecat, I cannot believe that has to be stated 🤢

GreyhoundG1rl · 20/05/2021 19:43

@Helleofabore

So, look, what I’m saying is that when gay people said they wanted to get married, that didn’t affect in any way the marriage that heterosexual people had because actually, the rights were then the same. One of the problems with self-identification becoming the basis for law is that it affects women. Negatively. Because it creates confusion between biology, social identity and the law. So firstly, you can’t change sex. I mean, that is really clear and intersex people are really fed up with being thrown under the bus about this...

Simon Fanshawe makes SO much sense. He cuts straight through. After decades of campaigning for Gay and Lesbian rights, he is very clear about the difference of the impacts of the two different movements.

Yet we are also constantly told this is just like the fight for Gay rights. Well, no. It most certainly is not. I have yet to see one gay and lesbian rights activist that agrees with that if they are not personally invested in the trans movement for whatever reason- work or personal.

He's the co founder of Stonewall?? So the whole rotten barrel has been completely derailed from it's initial mission statement 🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️
NiceGerbil · 20/05/2021 19:46

Never heard of transmaxxing before.

Not surprised tbh- the thing though just struck me was that again it sounds like s fantasy. Not reality.

The list a PP put up.
You'll be able to have multiple orgasms. Not all women can! And apparently from being penetrated with a penis... Many women can't orgasm that way at all.

And this is stated as a fact if you have oestrogen and presumably surgery?

It's a dangerous untruth. Encouraging men who are presumably not in a good place if they're in the incel community that transitioning will make everything great.

The claim that you'll be able to get loads of sex with both men and women (incels want sex with men? That doesn't follow the whole point of who they appeal to at all!). And including with female lesbians.

I mean come on.

Like much of this it seems to be really about sex. And sex from a male perspective as well. A male perspective that is tbh pretty odd and disturbing. Wanting to be seen and treated as a sex object. All that stuff.

Note the first I think it was on the list was having a body you find attractive. Interesting.

As with the wanking in the ladies, surely that's no surprise. There are a lot of weird pervy men about. Most women and girls know that from experience.

HecatesCatsInFancyHats · 20/05/2021 19:50

Let's not forget that Stonewall tried to have a Black Lesbian barrister removed from her chambers for challenging their trans orthodoxy:

"Stonewall 'urged' chambers to remove a lesbian barrister who criticised it"

This is what they wrote about Alison Bailey to her chambers:

Garden Court barristers "have always been allies to trans people and Stonewall", he wrote, "however, for Stonewall to continue associating with a barrister who is actively campaigning for a reduction in trans rights and equality, while also specifically targeting members of our staff with transphobic abuse on a public platform, puts us in a difficult position with yourselves".
"I trust you will do what is right and stand in solidarity with trans people", he concluded.

www.rollonfriday.com/news-content/stonewall-urged-chambers-remove-lesbian-barrister-who-criticised-it

WomenAreBornNotWorn · 20/05/2021 20:12

@lifeturnsonadime

What I don't understand is why it wouldn't be a massive step forward for trans rights to encourage people to be more inclusive of their own sex class however they identify.

If a transwoman feels that uncomfortable in the men's (sexed) loos then why is it appropriate for her to make women uncomfortable in female sex loos? Given that the Stonewall definition of trans requires no change in outward appearance, the detriment to women is that they can't challenge any man who enters female facilities. This has a disproportionate impact on women. Particularly vulnerable ones and more importantly than loos the impact on sport, refuges and prisons.

Surely the more inclusive answer is for males to accept all males however they identify?

Otherwise it's validation at the expense of women who have no choice.

And it's not possible to pretend that trans rights don't impact women unless you come from a huge point of privilege.

Excellent post.
Italiangreyhound · 20/05/2021 20:20

Agree with Wrongsideofhistorymyarse

"Imasoulman I believe you. This thing hurts women and people with gender dysphoria."

LangClegsInSpace · 20/05/2021 20:26

@stonecat

Hayley Cropper would never have been caught fishing bloody tampons out a bin.

#whereareallthehayleycroppers

Press For Change had a LOT of input into the character of Hayley Cropper, who was played by a woman.

More screenshots from Christine Burns - Pressing Matters vol. 2.

Apologies to those who rely on screen readers, I can't C&P the text from the kindle app. You can get both volumes for free on Amazon and they're worth every penny.

A message from a trans friend. International Day Against Homophobia, Transphobia and Biphobia .....
A message from a trans friend. International Day Against Homophobia, Transphobia and Biphobia .....
A message from a trans friend. International Day Against Homophobia, Transphobia and Biphobia .....
LangClegsInSpace · 20/05/2021 20:41

Seriously though, I recommend these volumes to everyone.

They're incredibly informative for anyone who wants to understand what the hell happened without us noticing, or how women and girls' rights were negotiated away quietly, behind closed doors.

The kindle version has lots of links to other extremely informative sources. Christine Burns is very proud of Press For Change and everything they achieved, so a lot of stuff has been carefully archived.

LangClegsInSpace · 20/05/2021 20:54

Sorry they're not free, they're £3.99 each. I was looking at the price I paid for them which was a limited offer. I'm a pillock.

Nevertheless I think they're good value because they contain so much information.

LangClegsInSpace · 20/05/2021 21:08

The idea that tw should use women's single sex spaces goes back to the early days of transsexual 'healthcare'. A bunch of male psychiatrists told a bunch of male transsexual people that if they wanted hormones and surgery they must first 'live as a woman' for a period of time - i.e. they must use women's toilets.

Giving away things that don't belong to you seldom ends well.

Furries · 20/05/2021 21:30

[quote Helleofabore]Hey furries welcome.

This link might be interesting too.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3145470-Break-it-down-for-me[/quote]
Part of me wants to say “thank you” - and part of me wants to scream “my head hurts”!

In no way have I read all of the links on the thread (that’s going to take me months).

I feel like I’ve fallen asleep on a train, missed my stop and woken up at the end of the line miles away from home. How on earth have I not realised any of this up to now?

MarkRuffaloCrumble · 20/05/2021 21:40

Amazing analogy Furries! It’s a head fuck for sure

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 20/05/2021 21:41

I feel like I’ve fallen asleep on a train, missed my stop and woken up at the end of the line miles away from home. How on earth have I not realised any of this up to now?

You may well wonder. Turns out it's a feature of their campaigning strategy, not a bug.

Sorry, it's another link.

www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-document-that-reveals-the-remarkable-tactics-of-trans-lobbyists

Artichokeleaves · 20/05/2021 21:55

I feel like I’ve fallen asleep on a train, missed my stop and woken up at the end of the line miles away from home. How on earth have I not realised any of this up to now?

There's an acerbic post by Jane Clare Jones (always well worth reading) about the steps of how we got into this mess:

janeclarejones.com/2018/11/13/the-annals-of-the-terf-wars/

To roughly quote one of my favourite bits:

Women: This can't be right?! WTF? Where are the feminists? Feminists is this for real? Why didn't you tell us!

We've been screaming about this for months!

Women's voices. Easily hidden, easily silenced, easily blocked out of media, just look at the heavy bias on reporting. It's immediately very plain to see just how severe the problem of normalised inequality and sexism is for women in the UK just by looking at:

a) how often male groups, even government ones, didn't even think to consult women about situations where the question was about women's resources and rights, and fundamental changes to them.

b) how rarely women's groups have ever been included in consultations and meetings and planning for women's resources, spaces, rights. And ask those few women's groups who fought their way into being acknowledged as existing in the situation about the inequality of their access, time, consideration. In fact watch the free online videos of the current GRA evidence to committee and compare for yourself how women's groups and women centric voices are spoken to, questioned, treated and behaved towards compared to those prioritising the needs of those born male.

c) how often any media article presents a balanced view point, (radio 4 women's hour for example) that gives equal weight, explanation and voice to the issues for women in turning single sex spaces mixed sex

d) how often you notice women even speaking about their needs, their issues, their rights, their consent, being termed as 'hate' and 'transphobia' that should not be tolerated. (This recently being discussed a lot in court cases.)

It really wasn't that you weren't paying attention.

stonecat · 20/05/2021 21:57

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Imasoulman · 20/05/2021 21:58

[quote stonecat]@Imasoulman

Please fight with us. Fight for transwomen's rights and women's rights.

We are with you. Just not to the detriment of our own privacy, dignity and safety.

The more transwomen like yourself stand up and fight with us, the better it is for women, transwomen and everyone.

Women need:

Female toilets
Female changing rooms
Female prisons
Female rape crisis centres and charities
Female domestic abuse shelters [/quote]
I absolutely intend to fight along aside you.

I'm sickened and angered by some of things I have read over the last few days.

By the way, thank you to every one who had a kind word for me following my earlier comment, all much appreciated

GreyhoundG1rl · 20/05/2021 22:03

I absolutely intend to fight along aside you.
Thank you.

midgedude · 20/05/2021 22:03

Yeah!

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