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A message from a trans friend. International Day Against Homophobia, Transphobia and Biphobia .....

999 replies

Biber · 18/05/2021 09:59

Apparently today is the International Day Against Homophobia, Transphobia and Biphobia...

I shall do my part, so here are a few things that might help others to understand better.

Everyone has to go to the toilet at some point. I think even for many non-trans people, public toilets are often only used as a last resort (has anyone ever actually been inside a "nice" public toilet?). This is also the case for trans people. No one uses them unless the really have to. Trans people aren't thinking about what's down there on other people or anything like that (only perverts are). Trans people just want to avoid making a stinking mess in their underwear, without having to prove what they themselves have (or haven't got) down there (i.e. some dignity would be nice). No one should feel uncomfortable doing their business and everyone is entitled to privacy. That applies to both trans and non-trans people. If someone does make you feel uncomfortable through their actions (not by how they dress or present themselves), then you should do something about it, because you in fact are likely not the only one who will be uncomfortable.
In short, why aren't all public toilets individual and completely private? Do spare a thought for those of us with more generalised anxiety disorders...

There are some people who are quite happy to include trans people once they have fully transitioned, i.e. undergone surgery. That's great, we just need to tell our doctors and the trust who is going to fund the surgery and the surgeons and the hospital where we will be having the surgery that they all need to bloody well hurry up so that we can have the surgery and be finally be included. Don't they realise that if we have to wait another year, we are going to continue to be excluded? That some people will still deny us the right to use certain facilities (the loo in some cases)? Forget the fact that it would be great to have the surgery as soon as possible so that we can be comfortable with ourselves and get on with our lives... So, trans people are being "temporarily excluded" because they cannot speed up a system (that they themselves so badly want to speed up), which is already under-resourced and overwhelmed saving people's lives.
Oh, and btw, trans people are aware that it isn't the surgery that finally makes them the other sex/gender. They know they are more likely to see a properly funded and resourced NHS under the Tories than they are to ever have children once they have had the surgery; that it's all a sort of compromise/this is the best that can be done with your body. But until or unless huge advances are made in medicine and surgery, this is the best that can be achieved for now. Well, it is better than nothing. After all, it hasn't even been 100 years yet since the first sex reassignment surgery was performed.

Of course, that is assuming all transgender people can have surgery, or even want surgery. As surprising as it may sound, transgender people come in all sorts - old and young, short and tall, all sorts of ethnicities, cool, boring, fun, smart, stupid... Oh, and they also differ in terms of their gender identities and presentation (the clue is after all in the term). Some of them might just not be very conventional in terms of their presentation and behaviour, have no interest in taking hormones, and definitely do not want surgery. Others will go all the way and do it so well that you will doubt they are telling the truth about them being trans, even as they shove a copy of their birth certificate and their baby pictures in your face. A lot of people are somewhere inbetween. One does have to wonder how a single term can be used to describe such a diverse range of people! With that in mind, I propose we rename it to "gender-diverse" (like "neuro-diverse"), because "diverse" seems like such a good word at the moment, right?

Trans people exist. Always have, always will. Everywhere. If you have a friend who is trans and is happy to speak to you about it and answer any questions you have, then do speak to them about it. This is important. Why? Because not all trans people are so happy or willing to talk about it. Why? Because how many times do you have to explain the same things over and over again to people who will, despite their best intentions, never really get it? To a society that at present, partly excludes you at best, and at worst tries to kill you. A society where your rights and existence are denied, where people don't believe you, and you spend a long time waiting in uncertainty. Speaking of uncertainty, trans people have one thing to thank covid-19 for: every single person in the world now knows what it is like to have their live on hold for a long period of time, faced with uncertainties in a situation far beyond their control, in a system that is not prepared to deal with them. Now you all have an understanding of what it is like emotionally to be trans (though without the gender bit), and I'm sorry because I would not have wished that even on my worst enemies (ok, well maybe for a few weeks at most for the worst of the worst).

And with that, I bid you all a happy International Day Against Homophobia, Transphobia and Biphobia!

OP posts:
Thread gallery
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stonecat · 20/05/2021 22:05

This reply has been deleted

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HannaHat · 20/05/2021 22:08

Imasoulman

Thank you 🙏💪🏻

Furries · 20/05/2021 22:11

Thanks! I’ll take a look at those 2 bits of material tomorrow.

I don’t think I can read anymore today. Feeling quite weird - a mixture of stupid, disbelief, horribly sad, confused - actually, I don’t think I can describe it. I don’t even have children to worry about, how the hell do you start processing this a parent?

Not burying my head in the sand, but am going to find something funny to watch before I go to bed. Thanks again to all of your responses. @stonecat - I read your link too, just didn’t want to take up too much of the last few posts to reply to your one too!

Erikrie · 20/05/2021 22:11

I absolutely intend to fight along aside you.

Aww. ♥️

stonecat · 20/05/2021 22:20

This reply has been deleted

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youvegottenminuteslynn · 20/05/2021 22:37

I really appreciate your contributions @Imasoulman

Thank you 🏆💫

AfternoonToffee · 20/05/2021 22:38

Well, I am pretty certain that this wasn't quite how the OP expected this to go. It's been a very illuminating thread, so thanks OP.

TheVampiresWife · 20/05/2021 23:35

@Imasoulman fantastic! Thank you for understanding our concerns. And thank you supporting us.

LangClegsInSpace · 20/05/2021 23:42

Beware of centering male viewpoints in discussions about female rights.

NiceGerbil · 20/05/2021 23:51

^

Mummyoflittledragon · 21/05/2021 06:39

Great thread, brilliant.

I advanced searched the poster, GuidonianHand, whose post was deleted and believed to be the op. This seems to reconfirm op is a woman.

On one thread, she talked of the issue that many women find it hard to enforce boundaries and say no. And of practising saying no in front of a mirror. She also recommended the book A Woman in Your Own Right by Anne Dickinson.

We are a group of women discussing enforcing boundaries and saying no. As she herself recommended. The cognitive dissonance.

Perhaps one day the fog will lift.

GlassBoxSpectacular · 21/05/2021 06:58

@LangClegsInSpace

Beware of centering male viewpoints in discussions about female rights.
1000% this.
BalthazarImpresario · 21/05/2021 07:07

This reply has been deleted

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DrSbaitso · 21/05/2021 07:17

@BalthazarImpresario

OP thank you for you post I’ve not read the full thread just skimmed it as I knew it would be full of transphobia and huge focus on trans women and spaces.

In the future my trans son will look like a man, so when he strolls into the female toilets looking and sounding like a man you don’t think he’s going to be confronted by security/police/hate etc just for using the toilets? Will it intimidate women? But everyone should use the loos they are assigned at birth right? The obsession with male to female trans people is what makes people angry with TERFs I’ve never seen a reasoned opinion on here just an obsession with trans women

There's been plenty of reasoned opinion on here, including this very point about trans men in toilets.

Has it occurred to you that the reason you never see things is because you don't read the threads?

Also, why do you invoke feminism itself as a pejorative when trying to invalidate women's safety concerns about male bodied people?

GlassBoxSpectacular · 21/05/2021 07:26

I’ve not read the full thread just skimmed it as I knew it would be full of transphobia

"I'm passing judgment on something I haven't bothered to read because I've used my psychic skills to ascertain the content." Hmm

BalthazarImpresario · 21/05/2021 07:31

I’ve read enough threads in the past on here and this one is largely in the same vein, that’s why I didn’t read it.
I am allowed to cast judgement on the posts I did read just like you cast judgement in the few examples of transfolk you have all read/encountered. Your own psychic ability if you will

Also asking why invoke feminism? Any thread about trans issues always has multiple posts of ‘come over to the feminism boards’ maybe that’s why?

Ereshkigalangcleg · 21/05/2021 07:41

But everyone should use the loos they are assigned at birth right?

People aren't "assigned a loo at birth" Confused they use the toilet facilities for their own sex.

midgedude · 21/05/2021 07:42

Why invoke feminism? Because feminism is the name given to standing up for women of all genders

Ereshkigalangcleg · 21/05/2021 07:44

I am allowed to cast judgement on the posts I did read

Yes, but you just look uninformed, when you jump on at the end of the thread and make arguments which have already been addressed. There was much better reasoning from people arguing for the recognition of sex and sex based rights. The arguments from genderists were predictable and lazy.

BalthazarImpresario · 21/05/2021 07:47

@Ereshkigalangcleg

But everyone should use the loos they are assigned at birth right?

People aren't "assigned a loo at birth" Confused they use the toilet facilities for their own sex.

So you go into a female toilet and see a man in there how do you react?

Baring in mind they are a trans man, how do you know that? You probably won’t know. Do you feel safe? Do you think they feel safe knowing just going for a wee could lead to them facing hostility?

midgedude · 21/05/2021 07:49

Of the trans people I know

One is a transwoman who was confident in that monicker and who would never impose on single sex spaces despite the abuse she faced from men

And the other was a normal girl just like I had been. I knew she was likely to experience gender problems as a teen , but She did not see herself as a boy from birth
her parents were fundamentally sexist and she ran to trans identification after family traumas

DrSbaitso · 21/05/2021 07:49

@BalthazarImpresario

I’ve read enough threads in the past on here and this one is largely in the same vein, that’s why I didn’t read it. I am allowed to cast judgement on the posts I did read just like you cast judgement in the few examples of transfolk you have all read/encountered. Your own psychic ability if you will

Also asking why invoke feminism? Any thread about trans issues always has multiple posts of ‘come over to the feminism boards’ maybe that’s why?

"I didn’t read this thread but I know what's in it."

As for the rest of it, you know fine well that the people who invented the misogynistic slur "terf", and the majority of those who use it, have never been to the MN Feminism board in their lives. How far will your intellectual dishonesty go?

"Terf" has been adopted as the slur of choice because the particular trans rights branch that uses it is anti woman. Feminism as a very concept has always been attacked and denigrated, dishonestly and without cause, by those who want to silence women and the movement that works for them. It's just the latest version of "hairy legged hysterical man haters". I would say I can't believe you people can't see it, but you can't accept the physical reality of sex, so I guess there are none so blind as those who won't see. Especially when they dismiss threads they've not read either.

It's a hateful and misogynistic ad hominem designed to bring feminism itself into disrepute, because you people know, as does everyone else, that sex is real and immutable, and sometimes, just sometimes, that matters. You know it. That's why you need hysterical, angry insults about something else. Because you can't argue the patently absurd to be true, so you need to invalidate the concept with irrelevant insults that attempt to discredit the very cause of women's rights itself. And not read threads that disprove your stance, over and over again.

This is all you've got. And we see you.

BalthazarImpresario · 21/05/2021 07:49

@Ereshkigalangcleg

I am allowed to cast judgement on the posts I did read

Yes, but you just look uninformed, when you jump on at the end of the thread and make arguments which have already been addressed. There was much better reasoning from people arguing for the recognition of sex and sex based rights. The arguments from genderists were predictable and lazy.

I jump in at the end and give my opinion it’s not lazy but I appreciate your opinion that it is. I’m pretty sure the opinions/arguments in this thread are just as predictable, I could waste my day reading the same posts that I’ve read many times before but I decided not to and all the responses I’ve had were exactly what I expected.
Erikrie · 21/05/2021 07:49

I’ve never seen a reasoned opinion on here just an obsession with trans women

Not an obsession. Well reasoned discussion. I guess it's hard to recognise reason though when you have your own agenda, and thus your fingers are stuck firmly in your ears. Just because your child has decided to transition to male, doesn't mean women should be thrown under the bus, now said child has decided to leave womanhood behind.

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