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A message from a trans friend. International Day Against Homophobia, Transphobia and Biphobia .....

999 replies

Biber · 18/05/2021 09:59

Apparently today is the International Day Against Homophobia, Transphobia and Biphobia...

I shall do my part, so here are a few things that might help others to understand better.

Everyone has to go to the toilet at some point. I think even for many non-trans people, public toilets are often only used as a last resort (has anyone ever actually been inside a "nice" public toilet?). This is also the case for trans people. No one uses them unless the really have to. Trans people aren't thinking about what's down there on other people or anything like that (only perverts are). Trans people just want to avoid making a stinking mess in their underwear, without having to prove what they themselves have (or haven't got) down there (i.e. some dignity would be nice). No one should feel uncomfortable doing their business and everyone is entitled to privacy. That applies to both trans and non-trans people. If someone does make you feel uncomfortable through their actions (not by how they dress or present themselves), then you should do something about it, because you in fact are likely not the only one who will be uncomfortable.
In short, why aren't all public toilets individual and completely private? Do spare a thought for those of us with more generalised anxiety disorders...

There are some people who are quite happy to include trans people once they have fully transitioned, i.e. undergone surgery. That's great, we just need to tell our doctors and the trust who is going to fund the surgery and the surgeons and the hospital where we will be having the surgery that they all need to bloody well hurry up so that we can have the surgery and be finally be included. Don't they realise that if we have to wait another year, we are going to continue to be excluded? That some people will still deny us the right to use certain facilities (the loo in some cases)? Forget the fact that it would be great to have the surgery as soon as possible so that we can be comfortable with ourselves and get on with our lives... So, trans people are being "temporarily excluded" because they cannot speed up a system (that they themselves so badly want to speed up), which is already under-resourced and overwhelmed saving people's lives.
Oh, and btw, trans people are aware that it isn't the surgery that finally makes them the other sex/gender. They know they are more likely to see a properly funded and resourced NHS under the Tories than they are to ever have children once they have had the surgery; that it's all a sort of compromise/this is the best that can be done with your body. But until or unless huge advances are made in medicine and surgery, this is the best that can be achieved for now. Well, it is better than nothing. After all, it hasn't even been 100 years yet since the first sex reassignment surgery was performed.

Of course, that is assuming all transgender people can have surgery, or even want surgery. As surprising as it may sound, transgender people come in all sorts - old and young, short and tall, all sorts of ethnicities, cool, boring, fun, smart, stupid... Oh, and they also differ in terms of their gender identities and presentation (the clue is after all in the term). Some of them might just not be very conventional in terms of their presentation and behaviour, have no interest in taking hormones, and definitely do not want surgery. Others will go all the way and do it so well that you will doubt they are telling the truth about them being trans, even as they shove a copy of their birth certificate and their baby pictures in your face. A lot of people are somewhere inbetween. One does have to wonder how a single term can be used to describe such a diverse range of people! With that in mind, I propose we rename it to "gender-diverse" (like "neuro-diverse"), because "diverse" seems like such a good word at the moment, right?

Trans people exist. Always have, always will. Everywhere. If you have a friend who is trans and is happy to speak to you about it and answer any questions you have, then do speak to them about it. This is important. Why? Because not all trans people are so happy or willing to talk about it. Why? Because how many times do you have to explain the same things over and over again to people who will, despite their best intentions, never really get it? To a society that at present, partly excludes you at best, and at worst tries to kill you. A society where your rights and existence are denied, where people don't believe you, and you spend a long time waiting in uncertainty. Speaking of uncertainty, trans people have one thing to thank covid-19 for: every single person in the world now knows what it is like to have their live on hold for a long period of time, faced with uncertainties in a situation far beyond their control, in a system that is not prepared to deal with them. Now you all have an understanding of what it is like emotionally to be trans (though without the gender bit), and I'm sorry because I would not have wished that even on my worst enemies (ok, well maybe for a few weeks at most for the worst of the worst).

And with that, I bid you all a happy International Day Against Homophobia, Transphobia and Biphobia!

OP posts:
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PronounssheRa · 18/05/2021 10:21

To a society that at present, partly excludes you at best, and at worst tries to kill you. A society where your rights and existence are denied, where people don't believe you

Is this talking about the Uk or somewhere else? In the UK trans people are one of the safest groups of people in the country, and they have the same rights as everyone else.

DownWhichOfLate · 18/05/2021 10:21

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UhtredRagnarson · 18/05/2021 10:21

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financialrecovery · 18/05/2021 10:22

@TeenMinusTests it doesn't directly impact women anymore than anybody else walking into a toilet does?

I can't tell you how many times I've been in JL or a service station and there has been male cleaners going in.
People get followed into toilets by people that are not trans and it's not spoken about.

The only place it directly impacts women is prisons and that's a seperate situation entirely.

GiveMyHeadPeaceffs · 18/05/2021 10:22

Again, it's all about trans rights isn't it? Not a squeak about gay or lesbian rights or bi rights but hey ho, you crack on, Op. Biscuit

titchy · 18/05/2021 10:23

[quote financialrecovery]@titchy if somebody wants to use the loo corresponding with their gender I'm good with that.[/quote]
Good for you. You don't speak for me or other women though. My sex based rights are not yours to give away.

UhtredRagnarson · 18/05/2021 10:25

I can't tell you how many times I've been in JL or a service station and there has been male cleaners going in.

I have never once been in a women’s toilet where a male cleaner has come in without first shouting something to ask if anyone is in or saying “cleaner coming in” so that anyone who is in can say “can you wait please” or “it’s fine, I don’t mind” or they leave. More often than not the male cleaner waits until there is no one in the bathroom before putting a sign on the door/floor saying “male cleaner in attendance” and then coming in. None of them just walk in and assume the women are fine with it. They ask permission.

UhtredRagnarson · 18/05/2021 10:26

@GiveMyHeadPeaceffs

Again, it's all about trans rights isn't it? Not a squeak about gay or lesbian rights or bi rights but hey ho, you crack on, Op. Biscuit
I’m assuming OP is working on that long post right now Wink I won’t hold my breath though.
PastMyBestBeforeDate · 18/05/2021 10:27

I've been wondering about this. I am genuinely curious to know why Biphobia has been moved to last in the list this year? Or maybe it was last year. But in previous years it was in the middle as per the acronym. Now it's last.
If the order isn't important why reorder them? If it is important then how should that be interpreted?

TeenMinusTests · 18/05/2021 10:27

In this country toilets are separated by sex (binary) and not gender (after all, there are multiple genders these days, that would be a lot of toilets).

Toilets with male cleaners have signs up warning the women.

Many women would not feel safe using public toilets if men are allowed free access. This would lead to women not going out.
We can't tell is a person is a transwoman or a predatory male.

financialrecovery · 18/05/2021 10:27

Jesus is there anything trans people can have without being jumped on 🙄

NeedNewKnees · 18/05/2021 10:27

As usual it’s all about the T, and never the LGB.

TeenMinusTests · 18/05/2021 10:30

@financialrecovery

Jesus is there anything trans people can have without being jumped on 🙄
They have the same rights as everyone else. e.g. Not to be discriminated in work, housing, etc. The right to privacy and a family life, etc etc. but there are some legally permitted sex based rights, and women should be allowed to defend them.
LemonRoses · 18/05/2021 10:31

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Tibtom · 18/05/2021 10:31

@MaxNormal

To a society that at present, partly excludes you at best, and at worst tries to kill you. A society where your rights and existence are denied, where people don't believe you

The experience of women, right there.

Exactly.
Eyesofdisarray · 18/05/2021 10:32

Patronising much???
Women don't object or persecute trans people, or attack or vilify them. We just want single sex- that's sex not gender- facilities, sports, refuges.
Why don't you understand that women are infinitely more at risk of violence from men; and that trans-women retain male patterns of offences?
Regarding the NHS: what about people waiting for operations? Cancer treatment? Mental health treatment?
And you didn't mention gay/bisexual people either
This reads like "educate yourselves" and I'm getting sick of it, really really sick of it

dickiedavisthunderthighs · 18/05/2021 10:33

"Of course, that is assuming all transgender people can have surgery, or even want surgery. As surprising as it may sound, transgender people come in all sorts - old and young, short and tall, all sorts of ethnicities, cool, boring, fun, smart, stupid... Oh, and they also differ in terms of their gender identities and presentation (the clue is after all in the term). Some of them might just not be very conventional in terms of their presentation and behaviour, have no interest in taking hormones, and definitely do not want surgery. Others will go all the way and do it so well that you will doubt they are telling the truth about them being trans, even as they shove a copy of their birth certificate and their baby pictures in your face. A lot of people are somewhere inbetween. One does have to wonder how a single term can be used to describe such a diverse range of people! With that in mind, I propose we rename it to "gender-diverse" (like "neuro-diverse"), because "diverse" seems like such a good word at the moment, right?"

This is where I peak. The trans people I know had crippling dysphoria, some still do despite extensive surgery. As should always be the case, anyone can look any way they want without comment or ridicule. What they can't do is decide they are the opposite sex and be granted immediate access to single sex safe spaces without this being questioned.

Aroundtheworldin80moves · 18/05/2021 10:33

I'm becoming to believe the biggest threat to Trans right in many countries is TRA spewing stuff like this without engaging any critical thought.

Some stuff can be split by gender. Other stuff, like prisons, medical care, sport etc need to split by biology. Toilets tend to be split by biology for the obvious reasons like needing sanitary waste disposal and more cubicles, as well as safety concerns.

If male toilets don't meet the needs of all biological males, they need to be changed. I do actually have sympathy here... But it's men causing the issue, not women. Other men are at risk in male toilets as well... Young boys. Gay men in some places (homophobia is still real).

I am not scared of Trans women. I am scared of a lot of men as my life experience has shown there is reason to be. Its also shown some men would do anything to hurt and control women.

Men need to change. Not women.

Geamhradh · 18/05/2021 10:33

OP is so keen to die on this particular hill she even got the day wrong.
It was yesterday.

UhtredRagnarson · 18/05/2021 10:33

@financialrecovery

Jesus is there anything trans people can have without being jumped on 🙄
What do you mean by this? What is being jumped on?
Eyesofdisarray · 18/05/2021 10:34

and the comparison with racism is unfair, incorrect and just wrong

RedKite96 · 18/05/2021 10:34

Yawn

UhtredRagnarson · 18/05/2021 10:35

@Eyesofdisarray

and the comparison with racism is unfair, incorrect and just wrong
Incredibly boring too. It’s always trotted out.
UhtredRagnarson · 18/05/2021 10:36

@Geamhradh

OP is so keen to die on this particular hill she even got the day wrong. It was yesterday.
I thought that! Grin
Quincie · 18/05/2021 10:36

*To a society that at present, partly excludes you at best, and at worst tries to kill you.
Who tries to kill trans people - do children? Do women ? I do not think that my society, your society, tries to kill trans people. In fact I would say they don't.
But if you want to actually state true facts it is some MEN who want to kill trans people.
Start tackling that - not blaming me for something I would never do.

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