To think we shouldn’t have another lockdown to protect vaccine refusers?

[Susie477]

Everyone over 40 or in high-risk groups has now been offered a vaccine. The overwhelming majority, including me, have gratefully taken up the offer. A small minority have refused the vaccine, as is their right, of course.

Now we are seeing new ‘variants of concern’ and unvaccinated vulnerable people in some areas are now being hospitalised because they have been infected.

Some people are now calling for extended restrictions in these areas to prevent the new variant spreading. Why should responsible people who have been vaccinated be punished by yet more lockdown because idiots in their communities are too stupid or too selfish to get vaccinated?

I clicked YABU because I have not been offered mt vaccine yet and if there is a new variant that can still kill I'd like protecting until I willinglt accept my vaccine.

@Theredjellybean

I agree OP... Widely reported that majority in hospital with Indian variant had refused vaccination. I am incensed that the road map maybe derailed and the majority who have followed the rules, and have had their vaccines etc arw going to be subject more restrictions, with its detrimental effects all because people were too selfish to get vaccinated.

If this is in regards to Bolton then I'd just like to correct that as of yesterday 18 were hospitalised with covid, out of those 1/3 were vaccinated, the others were not. There's no way of knowing why not, no proof that they were refusers or ineligible due to other health problems or allergies. So Matt Hancock trying to lay the blame at unvaccinated patients is really just just deflecting the blame from Boris Johnson and the government.

YABU and confusing vaccine 'refusal' with travel which enables the virus to mutate and spread.

More divide and conquer from the government following hot on the heels from snitching on neighbours. This time with an added layer of barely concealed racism in the media. Nice. Just what society needs.

Couldn’t agree more. Why do people swallow such divisive sensationalist drivel?

And I don’t think it’s at all unreasonable for a pregnant woman to be unsure about accepting the vaccine, given the length of time the vaccine has been used and the rapidly changing guidance on the subject. I’m not saying I think pregnant women should have it or shouldn’t have it - there are certainly risks associated with catching Covid in pregnancy - but I don’t think it’s remotely unreasonable to find it a difficult decision.

@Sh05

The facts are, five out of 18 patients in hospital with covid Indian variant in Bolton had one jab, one person two, they are described as very frail.
That leaves 13 people who are described as eligible for a vaccine who did not have one.
I'd struggle to believe these all had allergies to the ingredients of the vaccine.
I have given over 1000 vaccines and have not yet had one person who had allergies to the ingredients of the vaccine. So to have 13 in one area would be improbable.
I can infer from this that is 13 people who did not have the vaccine through choice.
They potentially will have infected many more people.. People who have not yet had a chance to get vaccinated... The cases rises and panic sets in and we all have to suffer.
I think that's selfish...

How quickly we've all bought into the government spin that this is all the fault of people who have refused to be jabbed. Firstly this ignores those under 40 & what we know about this variant is that it is worse for younger people. It ignores those who cannot take the jab & those who cannot easily get to a centre. And on. It also ignores the fact that the government let this variant in by not protecting our borders. And that Track & Trace cost £37 billion & is supposed to work better when there are low cases, so where the hell is it? Don't fall for it people.

It's not one area, it's one whole town!
Bolton only has one main hospital for 285,000 people so 12 out of that many doesn't seem that unlikely really.

Rubyrecka
Actually it is easy if you do the research and not pay attention to scare monger.

You clearly are one of those who like to scare people.

Ignoring and dismissing basic facts, and refusing to acknowledge that NO ONE has any data on effects on long term effects on people in general, and unborn babies in particular, is not giving you any credibility.

Unless you believe in some weird conspiracy theory, there was no covid vaccine just a year ago... So I'd love to know where you found studies about the short and long term effects.

Who is trying to scare people? I am guessing some posters are trying to reassure themselves they made the right choice. The point was merely that we do NOT KNOW and it does not make for an EASY decision.

@VeganVeal

I think we should definitely go back into a hard lockdown, we dont want another spike

If we must, not before November thank you. We all bloody need a holiday and a decent summer. Can you imagine having to cancel your summer and your October half-term booking? Fuck that.

There’s talk on the net that the reason India wasn’t red listed earlier was because the government were permitting flights in from fruit and veg pickers to replace the EU ones.

The vast majority of protection is delivered by the first dose.

I think it's appalling that people think they are so special that they don't need the vaccine and refuse it. We have a moral and civic duty to be vaccinated to protect others. It is a public health issue, not a personal one.

It takes time for immunity to build, which explains why some vaccinated people have ended up hospitalised.

They need to hurry up and vaccinate younger people with a first dose over the next four weeks. Massive test centres in the city, mobile vaccination hubs etc.

As they're not giving younger people AZ, they are currently sat on a stockpile of doses.

We all know vaccines aren't a miracle cure that will protect everyone. But I cannot believe people are still so unable to see the damage caused by lockdowns and are unable to understand that the aim is never to protect every single person from covid. Over 7 in 10 adults currently have antibodies.

Covid is here to stay. People will die from it, as they do from a myriad of preventable illness and disease and respiratory conditions.

Lockdowns are not a proportional response to prevent a handful of deaths.

Sh05
Do you know how rare having an allergy to one of the ingredients in the vaccines is?
2.5 allergic reactions in 10 million.
That's people who have reacted after the vaccine.
The ingredients are pretty rare in any other products so those 2.5 probably didn't know they were allergic until they had the jab.
Now do you really believe 13 people in Bolton alrwady knew they were allergic?
Very very unlikely.
I'm not sure what is so wrong in saying these people were eligible for the vaccination and chose not to have it. They decided to take that risk. OK, fair enough that's up to them, but the consequences may now affect all the population.
People who did get their vaccine, people who have not yet had theirs, potential business owners, people hoping to go back to work in hospitality, the mental health of our young people, our older people, the millions now waiting for medical treatments, operations... The list of ramifications of this is endless.
It is selfish... Most of us have done what is in the interests of the whole population, putting aside personal feelings.
To have this derailed by a few, well I feel angry.
Vaccines are free, safe and available... Housebound are being done by roving teams, clinics have been set up all over areas, it really is not that hard.
Information is plentiful in multiple languages.
No one can say vaccination has been selective or certain groups disadvantaged.

@VeganVeal

I think we should definitely go back into a hard lockdown, we dont want another spike

You are joking?

Are hospitals at risk of being overwhelmed? Are deaths increasing to hundreds a week? Are cases rising exponentially? Are the vulnerable awaiting vaccination? Is 7 in 10 adults having antibodies not enough?

For the love of god, use your brain.

Will the public adhere to a strict lockdown when daily deaths are in single figures? Will the businesses, restaurants, hospitality, mental health issues be worth it?

Ridiculous.

[quote picturesandpickles]You are wrong, sadly (I usually say you have misunderstood but someone said I say that too often so going for the blunt approach).

If we had to lock down, it would be to protect the vaccinated as they are still more likely to be the ones who get ill: twitter.com/ChristabelCoops/status/1394286767440896003[/quote]
Who is this person ? This is not the case .
Most are unvaccinated, a few have only had one which we know means you’re still not fully protected and I’m pretty sure one person who had both vaccines died but he was very elderly and infirm.
We know vaccines aren’t a cute but they help tremendously in helping stop the spread and death/ serious illness .
Only reason anyone should be refusing is if they have other health reasons that mean the jab is not suitable.

This is not fair to the younger people in our society. They are staying in and having their lives screwed up to save others, mainly older people. Now their 21 June freedom date is in jeopardy because the govt. are chasing those who have failed to step up and do their bit.

It's time to move on.

Protect those who cannot have the vaccine for whatever reason.
Stop chasing those who have been offered and have not taken it up.
From Monday tell the 18-36-year-olds (or whatever age they are at) that they can walk in/ book appointments and get their jabs.

If you don't want to take up the jab, crack on. We should be no longer wasting time and resources selling this idea to you. We are up against it with the Indian variant. Our young people deserve better.

I think it's appalling that people think they are so special that they don't need the vaccine and refuse it. We have a moral and civic duty to be vaccinated to protect others. It is a public health issue, not a personal one.

oh come on , you could say that about a lot of things.

Some people are worried about the vaccine, they have the right to be and they have the right to decline.

Let's not be hypocrite and pretend everyone is always putting public health and the country as a whole over their own need or interest!

I have a strong dislike of conspiracy theorists who ignore the facts and what actually happened in hospitals and is still happening elsewhere today, and a strong dislike for the ones who deny the risks and genuine concerns of others.

But people only start talking about civic duty when it touches them personally.

You'd be much more successful acknowledging the actual risks and side effects of the vaccine and putting them into perspective than denying them entirely.

@freakyfridays

Rubyrecka Actually it is easy if you do the research and not pay attention to scare monger.

You clearly are one of those who like to scare people.

Ignoring and dismissing basic facts, and refusing to acknowledge that NO ONE has any data on effects on long term effects on people in general, and unborn babies in particular, is not giving you any credibility.

Unless you believe in some weird conspiracy theory, there was no covid vaccine just a year ago... So I'd love to know where you found studies about the short and long term effects.

Who is trying to scare people? I am guessing some posters are trying to reassure themselves they made the right choice. The point was merely that we do NOT KNOW and it does not make for an EASY decision.

I haven’t ignored any basic facts and I certainly haven’t claimed there no long term affects so let’s keep it accurate. What we DO KNOW is the risk of covid and pregnancy. Where are your facts that the vaccine will affect anyone negatively? Oh right we don’t know so better err on the side of caution and ignore the effects of covid on pregnant women.

Ethically they cannot test on pregnant women so what happened when flu or whooping cough vaccines were rolled out.

All u need to do is go on the RCOG and have a look, it gives information to make an informed choice which is all anyone can do at this point.

Some people are worried about the vaccine, they have the right to be and they have the right to decline.

I 100% agree with this But this is perfectly compatible with the opinion that we should not even consider lockdown to protect those who choose not to protect themselves.

NHS treatment for covid should obviously be available to everyone (anti-vax or not) in the same way the NHS treats smoking or obesity related illnesses, and you don't get charged for injuries caused by voluntary activities (eg being drunk or playing rugby).

There is a risk that the treatment of those who choose not to be vaccinated may fill up hospitals and mean lockdown is necessary to prevent collapse of the health care system. Looking at proportion of people accepting the vaccine, though, this is unlikely.

Where are your facts that the vaccine will affect anyone negatively?

maybe have a chat with doctors who had to deal with people who reacted badly for a start?
Where are your facts that the vaccine will not have any effect?

What we DO KNOW is the risk of covid and pregnancy.
Which in many cases are .. none. The risks of catching covid are pretty low at the moment in many places around the country - and all you have to do is refrain from flying on holiday until you have the baby.

I just strongly disagree with people pretending that it's such an "easy" choice to make for many people.

*VeganVeal

I think we should definitely go back into a hard lockdown, we dont want another spike*

Hope you're comfortable sat there with the bills paid, the mortgage covered, your future secured ...

@reallyreallyborednow

Don’t forget there will be some people who can’t have the vaccine because it’s medically contraindicated.

There will also be a small % who are fully vaccinated, but who didn’t develop antibodies, and are therefore not immune.

Until herd immunity is reached by vaccinating the required % of the population, these people remain vulnerable.

It isn’t just about the over 40’s or CEV.

I care about protecting those people, and young people and children who've not yet been vaccinated. I couldn't care less about protecting vaccine refusers and whatever happens to them is their own responsibility.

@freakyfridays

Where are your facts that the vaccine will affect anyone negatively?

maybe have a chat with doctors who had to deal with people who reacted badly for a start?
Where are your facts that the vaccine will not have any effect?

What we DO KNOW is the risk of covid and pregnancy.
Which in many cases are .. none. The risks of catching covid are pretty low at the moment in many places around the country - and all you have to do is refrain from flying on holiday until you have the baby.

I just strongly disagree with people pretending that it's such an "easy" choice to make for many people.

The doctors who have dealt with side effects from the vaccine will likely tell you of a great many more patients who've been hospitalised, ventilated and died of covid or who are dealing with the effects of so-called long covid.

Yes, there are those who cant be vaccinated for health reasons. But opting to get vaccinated is a remarkably easy decision for the vast majority.

I say this as someone who isn't yet eligible to be called up and who will likely be waiting another month or so before I'm asked. But I won't hesitate when that happens.

I 100% agree with this But this is perfectly compatible with the opinion that we should not even consider lockdown to protect those who choose not to protect themselves.

Agreed

There is a risk that the treatment of those who choose not to be vaccinated may fill up hospitals and mean lockdown is necessary to prevent collapse of the health care system. Looking at proportion of people accepting the vaccine, though, this is unlikely.

I hope this turns out to be true, because that's an extremely difficult situation and I don't know how it should be handled.