To think we shouldn’t have another lockdown to protect vaccine refusers?

[Susie477]

Everyone over 40 or in high-risk groups has now been offered a vaccine. The overwhelming majority, including me, have gratefully taken up the offer. A small minority have refused the vaccine, as is their right, of course.

Now we are seeing new ‘variants of concern’ and unvaccinated vulnerable people in some areas are now being hospitalised because they have been infected.

Some people are now calling for extended restrictions in these areas to prevent the new variant spreading. Why should responsible people who have been vaccinated be punished by yet more lockdown because idiots in their communities are too stupid or too selfish to get vaccinated?

Well as long as the vaccine refusers do their own thing....

What about younger people OP? Yes it's less likely they'll get really ill or long COVID, but some will. Buts that's fine you've been offered a vaccine so bully for you

I honestly couldn't give two shits anymore to be honest. If we lock down again, the obviously I won't be able to go to the pub/shops etc, but I am not going to be staying out of my friends and families homes, nor them mine, any longer. I have had covid, both vaccines and do regular LFTs. Whatever other people want to do l, they can crack on, and I will do the same.

The problem with that, though, is that a) there is a significant part of the population who haven't been offered a vaccination at all yet (including all children) and b) the more covid in circulation the higher risk for everyone and c) people who have had one or two doses are still dying from this variant. Vaccinations will only do so much and be effective in x% of people. How do you separate out those who are fully vaccinated, but it didn't take from those who chose not to have a vaccine? Both groups will have the same risk (as will anyone under 18 or anyone not offered a vaccine) and both groups will be at a higher risk the more covid infections increase.

@Letsgetreadytocrumble

I honestly couldn't give two shits anymore to be honest. If we lock down again, the obviously I won't be able to go to the pub/shops etc, but I am not going to be staying out of my friends and families homes, nor them mine, any longer. I have had covid, both vaccines and do regular LFTs. Whatever other people want to do l, they can crack on, and I will do the same.

that's what many people have been doing for months. Christmas being a prime example!

@Letsgetreadytocrumble

I honestly couldn't give two shits anymore to be honest. If we lock down again, the obviously I won't be able to go to the pub/shops etc, but I am not going to be staying out of my friends and families homes, nor them mine, any longer. I have had covid, both vaccines and do regular LFTs. Whatever other people want to do l, they can crack on, and I will do the same.

And fuck all the other people you encounter in every day life and their families who may be waiting for the vaccine. See your family and all but just make sure you stay away from everyone else.

There are lots of vulnerable people who haven't been offered their first jabs yet.

There are many many peple who are vulnerable and have not yet had a first vaccine, let alone a second.

Unfortunately when it came to creating criteria to determine who was most vulnerable, the ball was very much dropped and many folk slipped through the net.. and many still are slipping through the net.

Lockdowns are not just about protecting the vulnerable, or the non-vaccinated or the still waiting to be vaccinated.

Its also about protecting the NHS, there are many of us who rely on that to stay alive, who are suffering badly from cuts to services and clinics, not getting ops they need to cure painful conditions (or in some cases, not getting treatment for life threatening stuff!) - whilst lockdowns are a pain in the arse, an overwhelmed NHS would mean people dying from stuff that is generally easily treatable. It would mean for example, that I wouldn't be able to get my pressure sore treated twice a week and would be at high risk of sepsis.

I am sure you have never considered the myriad boring, routine shit that people use the NHS for that these days, does not kill people but if we have no NHS... rapidly WILL go back to a situation where people die from what we now think of as minor things.

@normalsaline the RCOG recommend it based on a risk/benefit analysis - that does not mean it is safe or tested, just that it is believed to be “safer” than catching Covid while you are pregnant.

The babies born in the states to vaccinated mothers are weeks or a few months old. Whilst I don’t doubt the vast majority are physically healthy there is no long term data for things like learning difficulties because it is simply too new, any issues of this ilk would take years to come to the fore and then need extensive research into cause and effect.

You cannot say it is a simple choice for all just because you are happy to take it.

All high risk people haven't been vaccinated. DS remains on the shielded list as a 9yo. He isn't able to have the vaccine due to his age (hopefully once data from US children is out he will be) extremely clinically vulnerable should be allowed to re-shield in hotspots/if rates increase. Shielded peoples families/household members should be offered the vaccine and then yes we should not have another lockdown. We still need to look after our extremely vulnerable who can't be vaccinated or have low immune response to the vaccine but by more directly targeting their risk/ transmission route and not by national lockdown to protect those who refuse the vaccine.

It is still not known how much protection the vaccine is against new variants. We just have to accept that the future is unknown and accept any decisions made.

And fuck all the other people you encounter in every day life and their families who may be waiting for the vaccine. See your family and all but just make sure you stay away from everyone else.

Like I said, I have had Covid, have had both vaccines and test twice a week. The chances of me actually catching and transmitting Covid to another person now are absolutely tiny (they were fairly small before I even had my first vaccine and just had my original Covid antibodies but I was still very careful to stick to the rules then) so it's not 'fuck everyone else'.

I live in a part of Glasgow which has been identified as a 'surge' area: since Friday, people have been receiving texts from GPs and the health board which allow them to book an accelerated vaccine appt, even if they're under 40.

I'm 42, going for my 1st round tomorrow morning.

Exactly what @User0ne said. Everyone under 40 does count huh? Interesting

Erm hello... 33 year old here who hasn't had a vaccine yet (but is desperate for even just the first one!) and really doesn't want to catch covid and suffer potentially long-term side effects. But as long as everyone else is OK!

Absolutely not! My DP is 46 so technically eligible however he has as yet unidentified trigger anaphylaxis ... So isn't allowed the vaccine, I'll just tell our 7 children it's ok dad's dead cos he was stupid and selfish and wouldn't gamble with his life on the vaccine shall I?

@freakyfridays

And frankly, massive YABU to think it's such an easy decision for someone who is pregnant for example.

I’m pregnant It was a really easy decision for me to take Listened to doctors advice, took advice, got jab. Decision done

@freakyfridays

You are very naive if you think the vaccine is a miracle cure (or miracle prevention more accurately).

Ugh! This seems to be the favourite put-down at the the moment. ‘You are very naive’. I don’t see anything the OP’s post to indicate that she thinks the vaccine is a cure-all.

I’m pregnant
It was a really easy decision for me to take
Listened to doctors advice, took advice, got jab. Decision done

How is that relevant?

You found it easy, and you were lucky.

Other mothers might not find it so easy, as no one knows what the effect on the baby are, and other mothers ended up with high temperature for days, which is never good for the baby either.

Some doctors and paediatricians do not recommend the jab for pregnant women btw. As much as we would love a straight answer, it really is not that easy.

@Pixxie7

It is still not known how much protection the vaccine is against new variants. We just have to accept that the future is unknown and accept any decisions made.

It’s very known Lots of data published today showing that it’s effective against the Indian variant, just as it’s been effective against all the others

Every time a new variant occurs, we get the same ‘oh but the vaccine might not be effective’ and then all the data shows it’s effective but then we still have to wait for the whataboutery for the next variant by people obsessed with the idea that there are ‘so many unknowns’
It’s getting so boring now

I get what you mean op and agree with you if it was just those vaccine refuses who would be affected.

But I think at the moment that’s too simplistic a view. The under 40’s and children are a large group and they deserve the chance to be kept as safe as possible before they get the vaccine. The more it spreads among them, even if they don’t become very ill, the more chance of it further mutating plus there is the risk of long Covid. As mentioned above, there are also those who will only get limited benefit from the vaccine as they are immunosuppressed.

I think they should continue with the slow reopening, but stop if numbers start rapidly rising. Sensible measures should remain in place. They should vaccinate as many people as quickly as they can too.

We are seeing more people in their 30s hospitalised around the world this time around. Can we protect them according to you or shall we just let 'em perish?

A lot of people on this thread talking about those adversely affected if we don’t lockdown and that’s fair enough. I haven’t been vaccinated and my husband is a doctor who gets redeployed to covid ICU during peaks so I’m not exactly sitting pretty with no risk.

But we also have to consider the colossal suffering lockdowns cause, and we have been in one for months. For much of the country (including the north where I am) we barely came out of it. We have to balance the competing interests and consider the needs of those harmed by lockdown as well. It really really isn’t as simple as saying if cases rise the moral thing to do is lockdown again.

And yes, people will die from lockdown - according to ONS modelling it will be nearly a million years of life lost over the next 5 years because of it. It’s not about me wanting to go to the pub because I’m bored.

Pottedpalm
I don’t see anything the OP’s post to indicate that she thinks the vaccine is a cure-all.

Apart from implying that the only reason for restrictions would be the people who are not vaccinated?

@elliejjtiny

There are lots of vulnerable people who haven't been offered their first jabs yet.

Who? Children? The most vulnerable are the over 50s and those with conditions that make them vulnerable, and all but a small number of children and others who for other reasons can't have the vaccine (e.g. due to chemo) have been offered it, many have had 2 doses.

I'm very sympathetic to those who cannot take a vaccine and are therefore at risk. However we do not shut down every year to protect the vulnerable from flu, even though more children die from flu than from covid - at what point would you make the cutoff?

If there is a variant that bypasses the vaccine or is highly risky for younger people then I would absolutely support another lockdown. If we need to pause a full reopening due to the Indian variant I absolutely support that too. But the risk now is so much lower and the risk of continuing as things are is pretty high.