To think this utter madness- child benefit

[stopthebloodylights]

A couple In Ireland have had quads...Irish child benefits is not means tested AND if you have twins you get 1.5 per child BUT if you have other multiples you get DOUBLE the amount so this couple are taking in 140 x 2 PER CHILD!! That's 1120 in child benefits per month!! 🤣🤣🤣

@NoLeafClover. That wasn't my point. I'm sure things will only get better for women living in Ireland from now on.

My point was that, from a 'historical' perspective (i.e. pre-2019), it makes sense that Ireland would prioritise financial support for families since women weren't allowed to terminate pregnancies if they couldn't afford a baby. Clearly this support isn't going to be immediately withdrawn simply because women now have a choice as to whether to continue a pregnancy (especially since there is still a stigma attached to abortion) although it may evolve to become less generous.

They will also get €300 per child per month in Universal Credit, plus €400 per month if both adults are unable to work and their rent paid. So thankfully the €1120 won't be their only benefits

This is simply not true, I wish it was.

Fuck no. 1000eur a month is not in any way an enticement for me to go out and get pregnant with quads. I’m exhausted just thinking about it. They’ll need every penny

It's similar in Cyprus. SIL gets a child benefit bonus for having 4 dc. They are keen to support larger families as opposed to uk gov, who are desperate to drive them in to poverty

[quote Jellybabiesforbreakfast]@NoLeafClover. That wasn't my point. I'm sure things will only get better for women living in Ireland from now on.

My point was that, from a 'historical' perspective (i.e. pre-2019), it makes sense that Ireland would prioritise financial support for families since women weren't allowed to terminate pregnancies if they couldn't afford a baby. Clearly this support isn't going to be immediately withdrawn simply because women now have a choice as to whether to continue a pregnancy (especially since there is still a stigma attached to abortion) although it may evolve to become less generous.[/quote]
Okay, thank you for that clarification. Your post came across as pejorative, and I apologise if that wasn't your intent.

There is a serious history of anti-Irish sentiment on MN, so I get my hackles up fairly easily, having been attacked just for bring Irish many times.

And tbh I'm not going to apologise for that, but I will apologise for having misinterpreted your posts, if I did.

Also, I wish people would stop saying that there is a 'stigma' attached to having an abortion, among Irish people. When I had mine (20 years ago, had to go to the UK) I was fairly upfront about it. I speak about it quite freely now (I mean I don't drop it into random chats, but if the topic comes up, yes, I'll mention it). I've only ever had one person be horrified by it.

I did not say they had to - just what is the incentive to work and provide for your family, if you would get more in benefits than you would earn.

I believe in supporting when people are in trouble , until they get back on their feet - but not 18 years.

Children are not an unexpected event.

I wish it was the same here. We have twins and childcare costs £3k a month and we are in the red each month as a result. 4 car seats, 4 sets of clothes etc will be extortionate.

Are multiples more expensive for 18 years though? Are twin 12 year olds more expensive than a 13 year old and an 11 year old of opposite sexes (or even the same sex, they may be in the same size clothes and shoes). Wouldn't extra money at birth, and for the first five years be more help?

You can not compare Ireland’s child benefit to England’s, they are two completely different countries.

Ireland has higher taxes, higher rents, house prices, a general higher cost of living, they do not have a free health care system. Somebody mentioned that not everyone has to pay you can get a medical card, that is only for specific people, just like the uk getting assistance with free prescriptions, there is a criteria to meet, not everyone is entitled to them. Also in reference to the medical insurance and getting money back, who do you think pays the insurance premiums in the first place?

I think it’s utter mad you actually think the Irish have it better off.

Irish person here, tell me when exactly NI legalised abortion?

A family of 4 is absolutely not considered small

Maternity care is free for everyone

Medical care is free for children under 6 and those on a low wage

We can claim medical expenses and medical expenses on our tax returns at the end of the year

Childcare for 1 child costs approximately 1k a month

Having spent many years in England and with many family members working in the NHS, I would choose ROI health over NHS

Children are not an unexpected event

Four children in one go are. It sort of takes away your option to limit your family to a more affordable one or two children. Or have nurseries and childminders started offering a 4 for 1 deal on childcare?

I find it unpleasant to even contemplate how wreaked I would be from caring for 4 babies all at once. And then they would grow up to be toddlers... and move in four different directions. How do you even manage a trip to the park if you're looking after them alone?

Oh my abortion which I had 30 years ago wAsn't frowned uponed and I wasn't marked as scarlet woman.

Anyway we just murdered and sold babies to the highest bidders in our mother and babies homes

Actually @Bogoffmda I picked up on your post because in your post at 18.06 you say:
'The concept that they both have to give up work and let the state pay for them and their dc is one I struggle with'
Hence my question why do you say they 'have' to give up work?

In answer to some of the inaccuracies posted abundantly on this thread -

In Ireland we have

• medical card for free health care / prescriptions for people below a certain threshold

• paid medical care for those over the threshold. And to be honest reading the daily threads on here about GPs having waiting lists of up to a month long & often v inadequate diagnosis when an appointment is given, I'd far rather pay my €60 & have a same day / next day appointment here

• free maternity care for all

• free medical care for under 6 with planned roll out to under 12

• free preschool hours for 1 year

• free dental checks & eye tests & vaccines through schools

• free eye test for PAYE workers

• legalised abortion since 2019

• every type of contraception available

• 4 is not considered a small family

• the average number of children is 2

• far fewer fee paying schools & the greater majority of children attend non fee paying schools from primary to secondary

CB is much higher anyway in Ireland

UK CB or the old equivalent didn't used to be means tested

For anyone else wondering about prevalence of multiple births:

Figures for England and Wales 2016:
696,271 births
10,786 sets of twins
160 sets of triplets
5 quads (or more)

Almost 8 billion people on the planet. People need to stop being paid to have children.

🙄

@kowari secondary school costs are eye-watering. My own dc it cost nearly €300 per year per child and that's before the cost of school supply's. Ireland is a very expensive country and the benefits may seem huge but once the costs start there's not much left over.

I think the UK is one of the odd ones out in terms of Europe re low child benefit.

@YouWerePrettyIWasLonely is that a voluntary contribution?
My dc is in secondary school & there's a voluntary contribution of €150 per year & it's capped for multiple children. We have no other charges apart from uniform & books (which are expensive I'll grant that!)

Wages are also higher in Ireland

No council tax

No water bills

I feed my family of four very well on €80-90 per week. (Lidl or aldi)

Many workplaces pay health insurance

University fees are lower €3k per year (used to be "free")

And as a pp said maternity care is FREE as is care for under 6's and over 65's

Medical cards for those on a low wage. Etc etc

[quote YouWerePrettyIWasLonely]@kowari secondary school costs are eye-watering. My own dc it cost nearly €300 per year per child and that's before the cost of school supply's. Ireland is a very expensive country and the benefits may seem huge but once the costs start there's not much left over.[/quote]
Is it more expensive for twins than for two children a year or two apart though? I'm just wondering if any extra multiple birth benefits would be better off concentrated in the first five years?

Having multiples is more expensive in one go than two children spread apart.

You never have one under 3/5 and one over so days out are more expensive.

They move to school and high school, requiring that first kit out, at exact same time.

My two moved into adult shoe sizes, and the added cost of that, within a few months.

Even down to small things like school trips at secondary - you don’t have one wanting to go on the bigger trips then a couple of years to save for the next one, it’s both at the exact same time.

That's not the voluntary contribution, the the books, tech, materials cost. If I can remember correctly first year cost more, I think it was around €360 per child. Children a year or two apart is not the same as multiples. I wouldn't fancy school costs for quads. I can just imagine the cost for any abroad trips. My dc went to Reykjavik in Transition year and each time DH worked overtime to pay it.

Sounds sensible. 4 dc evenly spaced can have hand me downs but funding a car that takes 4 car seats safely, buying the car seats, a quad buggy, cots, mattresses etc. It was hard enough finding the money for twins from my second pregnancy. With 3dc including twins we get £192 per month which hardly covers baby basics. Childcare for 3 was unaffordable for us too.