Discussing Palestinian Oppression part 2

[Faffandahalf]

Just starting another thread as the other one is full.

Please keep talking about Palestinian occupation and oppression.

Please follow Palestinian support groups like Friends of Al Aqsa and Mohammed el Kurd (an amazing Sheikh Jarrah citizen) on Twitter and Insta to get info from the ground. This will take you to other sources of infor coming out of Palestine.

Please keep Palestine part of the conversation and on social media so it’s not forgotten about.

Supporting Palestine is not anti Semitic
Criticising Israel is not anti Semitic.

As an aside I have not once seen the previous thread in active after page 1.
So MN have let the thread stand after numerous complaints of censorship but still odd that it never came up as active.

The same whataboutery always crops up when you talk about Palestine. Funny that.

Israel created Hamas. Israel elected Likud, Netanyahu and Sharon. Does that mean the Palestinians have carte blanche to do to Israel what is done to them?

Yes - the Irish comparison is ridiculous - the British army seem to have shot quite a lot of people in cold blood, if we'd spent a week in shelters with IRA rockets landing in London, there would have been a fair amount of pressure to be even nastier to them. The Irish govt didn't support the IRA, although there may have been some sympathisers. And if the Irish govt had bombed London itself, we would absolutely have bombed them back.

@Ikeasucks

You’re just repeating the same half-truths that are intended to deflect from the main issue over and over agenda. Your agenda is extremely transparent.

The fact that cannot be disputed is that the Palestinians who had lived in Palestine for centuries were systematically removed from THEIR lands and colonised by Jewish people with the help of the British.

They have been oppressed ever since WW1 and they are absolutely entitled to want to live on their land with the same opportunities as the ruling Israeli population.

Until Israel acknowledges that the original
Zionists colonised and kicked out the indigenous population (well before the Holocaust) this problem will remain intractable.

Stop denying the Palestinians a voice.

The UN meet in a few hours and hopefully can put pressure on Israel and an end to these attacks

From BBC

‘ UN Secretary-General Antonio Guterres said yesterday he was "dismayed" by civilian casualties in Gaza and "deeply disturbed" by Israel's attack on the high-rise building housing foreign media organisations.

In a statement, the UN reminded all sides that "any indiscriminate targeting of civilian and media structures violates international law and must be avoided at all costs".

There a thousands of conflicts going on all over the world and China has 2 million Muslims in concentration camps but nobody protests or cares because no Jews are involved. If Israel was a Muslim state would there be so much vitriol against it

There is the argument as Israel claims it’s a liberal democracy it is judged accordingly. Whist Netanhayu is in power and Hamas in Gaza there will be no chance of working towards peace.

Look at the land stolen from the Palestinians

At least 26 people were killed (mainly women and children) from Israeli airstrikes on residential areas overnight. One of the people killed was Dr Ayman Abu al-Ouf, the head of internal medicine at Al Shifa Hospital in Gaza. There are also many reports that Israeli warplanes have bombed all the main roads leading to the hospital, making it difficult for ambulances to get in and out.

www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2021/5/16/gaza-suffers-most-intense-bombing-as-rescuers-dig-for-survivors?__twitter_impression=true

Whist Netanhayu is in power and Hamas in Gaza there will be no chance of working towards peace

Sadly I agree

When both feel under attack both are more likely to support a more extreme stance.

Zota on my limited knowledge here I also agree.

Adventureswith

The UN meet in a few hours and hopefully can put pressure on Israel and an end to these attacks

From BBC

UN Secretary-General Antonio Guterres said yesterday he was "dismayed" by civilian casualties in Gaza and "deeply disturbed" by Israel's attack on the high-rise building housing foreign media organisations.

In a statement, the UN reminded all sides that "any indiscriminate targeting of civilian and media structures violates international law and must be avoided at all costs".

What do you think is the impact of this UN reminder on the world leaders who Israeli directly relies on ?

I believe there is a mutual relationship between the Israeli government and the UN world leaders, Israel relies on them for support and they rely on Israel to destabilise the region and ensure it can be exploited for resolving international conflicts on international grounds.

They won’t damage relations with Israel. Israel knows it. Israel won’t care for UN warnings.

My hope is in the humanity of the people behind those governments. To call for change.

There are also many reports that Israeli warplanes have bombed all the main roads leading to the hospital, making it difficult for ambulances to get in and out.

If these reports are true this is an utterly disgusting and inhumane thing to do.

@JustFedUpOfThis

You have and anti israeli agenda, if you are from the area or have personal involvement with Palestine i understand how you feel as you do. But tour bias is through the roof.

A huge amount of reporting has come from the hospital entrance over the past couple of days - ambulances pulling up and lifeless bodies of children and truly horrific injuries have been broadcast to the world. I’m guessing a lot of reporters stay there to show the world the reality of what is going on - so if you block the ambulances from arriving then it obviously makes it very difficult to report on the casualties caused by the Israeli airstrikes.

The latest Israeli reports state that there were tunnels under the roads leading to the hospital that were used by Hamas. Like I said yesterday - it is so transparent at this point that if you don’t see it, it’s simply because you don’t want to.

@Ikeasucks

Do you agree the League of Nations agreed mandate for Palestine, which proposed a Jewish agency to run the mandate, facilitated the creation of Israel in 1948?

Because you have made no attempt to address this. You keep applying smokescreens, deflections and generalisations about Palestinians. You do your cause no favours whatsoever as you are not responding to straightforward, primary-sourced facts.

@JustFedUpOfThis

What would you ideally like to see happen, what solution

I think you'll find it is. Inflatable Jewish caricatures complete with big noses and horns at a pro Palestine demo in London

Supporting an oppressed nation is not intrinsically anti-Semitic. Bringing up caricatures that some protesters are using is not a valid argument. I suppose you think bombing women and children and forcibly removing people from their homes to further encroach on land the Israelis wish to annex is ok, then?

I’m absolute amazed that the US and Britain still ‘support’ the Israeli government when their prime minister comes out with such phrases as ‘The bombing will continue as long as necessary’. As long as it takes to eradicate 2 million Palestinians?

For all those of you saying ‘criticising the actions of Israel isn’t anti-Semitic’ and you’re right, it doesn’t have to be, but it so often is, including most of the time on this thread.

Here is a great Twitter thread which explains how to talk about Israel without being anti-Semitic. A good starting point is that if you mean ‘the Israeli government’ or ‘Netanyahu’ then say that. Don’t say ‘Israel’, ‘Israelis’, ‘Jews’ or ‘Jewish people’. Doing any of the above suggests you have an innate problem with Israel’s right to exist, or with Jews.

twitter.com/daverich1/status/1392452867257217029?s=21

@Cherrysoup, to give just one example, ‘land the Israelis wish to annex’ - I assume you mean ‘Netanyahu’s government’ yes? So you can say that. It really matters.

Whist Netanhayu is in power and Hamas in Gaza there will be no chance of working towards peace

Sadly probably true. The Israeli govt have repeatedly used ‘Hamas are using this building’ as an excuse to bomb it, despite there being zero evidence produced.

@joanneg36 yes, apologies, I didn’t mean to lump all Israelis together, I’m sure many don’t agree with the government’s current actions.

@Ikeasucks

Again, no response. Continual deflection.

It’s just too much to admit that the original (and huge) miscarriage of justice was against the Palestinians, isn’t it?

We will not move forward until this is recognised.

And btw I am heavily supportive of the Palestinians as a result of the extensive amount of reading I have done. I started from a neutral position, read books from BOTH sides and it is extremely clear to me that the Palestinians have been treated appallingly. I have no vested interest - I am white Protestant Scottish. So I believe I am being entirely objective.

The Israeli government are doing an awful lot that’s wrong at the moment so there’s absolutely no need to make up additional stuff that they’re not doing - like saying they wish to eradicate every Palestinian. Conversely, Hamas have explicitly said they wish to remove all Jews from Israel. So perhaps what the Israeli govt means is that the bombing will continue until the immediate threat from Hamas rockets is removed?

To be clear, this is not to say that I believe what the Israeli govt is doing right now is proportionate or right. But making stuff up - like that ‘Israel’ wants to eradicate all Palestinians is both wrong and profoundly inflammatory.

Look at the land stolen from the Palestinians

And approximately one million Jews were ethnically cleansed from their homes in Arab Countries where they had lived for centuries.I am sure they would like their stolen land and possessions back too. There is one Jew left in Afghanistan and the Taliban has apparently threatened his life so he is leaving after more than a millenia of Jewish presence in Afghanistan.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_exodus_from_Arab_and_Muslim_countries

@JustFedUpOfThis I am not IkeaSucks but I’m going to answer you. It is an ancient and intractable religious land war during which monstrous injustices have been committed on both sides. These disputes (same as Ireland) are never resolved by ‘one side admitting they are in the wrong’. Neither side is in the wrong. The only way things move forward (as in Ireland) is by both sides electing governments that care more about peace and reality than ancient religious grievances. No-one is ever going to ‘win’.