Discussing Palestinian Oppression part 2

[Faffandahalf]

Just starting another thread as the other one is full.

Please keep talking about Palestinian occupation and oppression.

Please follow Palestinian support groups like Friends of Al Aqsa and Mohammed el Kurd (an amazing Sheikh Jarrah citizen) on Twitter and Insta to get info from the ground. This will take you to other sources of infor coming out of Palestine.

Please keep Palestine part of the conversation and on social media so it’s not forgotten about.

Supporting Palestine is not anti Semitic
Criticising Israel is not anti Semitic.

As an aside I have not once seen the previous thread in active after page 1.
So MN have let the thread stand after numerous complaints of censorship but still odd that it never came up as active.

@Diemme

Supporting Palestine is not anti Semitic. Criticising Israel is not anti Semitic

I think you'll find it is. Inflatable Jewish caricatures complete with big noses and horns at a pro Palestine demo in London.

It can be. It's not mutually exclusive but neither is everyone that is critical of Israeli government policy anti Semitic.

I'm not familiar with Mohamed bin Zayed however Googling images of him suggests to me that Diemme is correct that the caricature in the photograph is racist. In my opinion, comparing it to every other image I have seen, his nose has been elongated to make it a stereotypical "Jewish nose" and is therefore clearly racist.

The target might be an Arab but the way they are going about targeting him is racist. It would be like "browning up" Boris Johnson in a protest against him not banning flights from India because of wanting a trade deal.

I'm not pro-Israel by the way, I think the Israelis and Palestinians are both to blame for the situation they're in, though I'd probably side more with the Palestinians because they're the underdog in terms of firepower. I'm just pointing out that racism is racism.

@Nandakanda

Non-Muslim populations through MENA over time have been killed, forcibly converted or eventually just pushed out - as ISIS did in recent years, and previously Maronites in the Lebanon, Zoroastrians in Iran, Jews in Iran, Iraq, Syria and especially Saudi Arabia.

Didn’t you know that?

It’s a bit more complicated than that. The world’s oldest known religion, Zoroastrianism, still survives to this day for example. A good introduction I found was Gerald Russell’s “Heirs to Forgotten Kingdoms”. Islam changes through the centuries, as we all have, and the current authoritarian stances are just one option.

I think the UN needs to be based in the Near East personally, and we all should support its (nominal) principles.

Perhaps in a Kurdish state.

@Diemme

Diemme what has that picture got to do with a thread on this forum discussing the issue? We are allowed to debate and discuss. Please do not try and derail this thread

It's a depiction of Jewish stereotype complete with large nose and horns. It's the equivalent of blacking up. It's antisemitic. And it took place at a demo regarding this issue. Not sure what you're unclear about.

Um, see any likeness between Diemme's chosen picture and these people?

www.economist.com/middle-east-and-africa/2021/05/15/muhammad-bin-salman-of-saudi-arabia-plays-the-diplomat

gulfnews.com/uae/government/uae-leaders-exchange-eid-al-fitr-greetings-1.79200295

It isn't only Jews that have big noses, y'know.

I expect that if someone put up a picture of a bear wearing a keffiyeh there would be someone to claim angrily that it was an offensive Jewish stereotype. I can tell the difference between a keffiyeh and a yarmulke, but it seems that some cannot.

@mayyouliveininterestingtines

“It’s a bit more complicated than that “.

No it isn’t.

@Nandakanda

Non-Muslim populations through MENA over time have been killed, forcibly converted or eventually just pushed out - as ISIS did in recent years, and previously Maronites in the Lebanon, Zoroastrians in Iran, Jews in Iran, Iraq, Syria and especially Saudi Arabia.

Didn’t you know that?

"So it's okay to kill Palestinians because..." is what I'm hearing from that post.

This is a thread about mighty firepower used to kill an oppressed population who have had their lives ruined by Israel.

*It isn't only Jews that have big noses, y'know.

I expect that if someone put up a picture of a bear wearing a keffiyeh there would be someone to claim angrily that it was an offensive Jewish stereotype. I can tell the difference between a keffiyeh and a yarmulke, but it seems that some cannot.*

I seem to recall that caricatures of Neil Kinnock and Margaret Thatcher always showed them with huge noses. Even though neither of them were Jewish or had particularly big noses. Big nose does not automatically mean offensive Jewish stereotype.

[quote Nandakanda]@mayyouliveininterestingtines

“It’s a bit more complicated than that “.

No it isn’t.[/quote]
Oh, come on! Have you never had to deal with the old, old joke about "two Jews in a room, three opinions"? (Or two men from Westphalia, come to that.) It's a lot more complicated than that.

It does sometimes worry me that people seem to think all Jews are Israelis, and that all Israelis are Zionists. If everyone agrees with Netanyahu, why did Likud only get thirty seats in the Knesset?

The Gazan’s voted in Hamas who exist to wipe out Israel

@Ikeasucks

The Gazan’s voted in Hamas who exist to wipe out Israel

Hamas holds 74 of the 132 seats on the Legislative Council. So not all Palestinians voted them in by any means. Yet all Palestinians are being punished for doing so.

The Gazans voted in Hamas because every other party had failed catastrophically to protect them from Israeli attacks.

Also there hasn’t been an election in 15 years so who knows how the Palestinians would vote now?

And how has Hamas protected their people? Spending millions on tunnels and rockets from Iran - knowing israel with retaliate? Hamas exist to wipe out israel.

I think people living safe in the uk might feel differently if they lived within range of those rockets coming from a group (Hamas) who want you gone, want you and your children dead

@skirk64 he has a large, hook nose irl. He’s nicknamed ‘The Satan of the Arabs’, he’s EXTREMELY unpopular!

Israel needs to stop their killing of the Palestinians, many of them children. I think people in the U.K. would think differently if you had to face the dangers endured by the Palestinians.

@Puttingouthefirewithgasoline

I find that these threads so informative, but obviously some posters are very close to this subject and it must be upsetting for them to post?

I'm trying to pick up the main gist.
Are hamas religious extremists? I'm just thinking of the so called school books from Saudi that came to light a few years ago with awful racism about Jewish people?

Is it possible to root out hamas?
Without hamas and with the current Israeli pm gone and moderates in on both sides there maybe chance of peace?

@Puttingouthefirewithgasoline, this might be of interest to you which I read yesterday

“ Avraham Burg, former speaker of the Israeli Knesset, and ex-interim President of Israel, has spoken to DW about what led to the current situation, and why there is no obvious way out of the crisis.

"There are no proportions in wars," he said. "War is an unproportional measure and the situation is not to be judged immediately. It is what led to it and what led to it is actually an interesting joint motivation — a common denominator between Hamas and Netanyahu's conservative government. Both do not want to give power to the Palestinian authority and make peace with it."

"The Hamas wants to take over the Palestinian authority," Burg continued, "and promote its religious and political agenda. And Netanyahu does not want to compromise, sit down and have a reconciliation with the Palestinian authority because it will lead eventually to a Palestinian state."

And regarding the ongoing violence Burg said: "Every citizen, be it a citizen in Gaza or Jerusalem, has the right to live in peace."

@Ikeasucks

And how has Hamas protected their people? Spending millions on tunnels and rockets from Iran - knowing israel with retaliate? Hamas exist to wipe out israel.

I think people living safe in the uk might feel differently if they lived within range of those rockets coming from a group (Hamas) who want you gone, want you and your children dead

I lived in London when there was a strong chance I might be bombed by the IRA, who killed rather a lot of people on the English mainland.

Somehow I managed not to want Irish children killed, though.

According to the UN there are now more than 17,000 Palestinians displaced by Israeli airstrikes sheltering in 41 different UNRWA schools in Gaza.

Oh please the IRA bombing the UK can not be compared

You were never forced out of your home to make way for Irish settlers never received second rate education and health care by the IRA

Maybe have a think how the IRA came about ...

Zotter thanks.

“I lived in London when there was a strong chance I might be bombed by the IRA, who killed rather a lot of people on the English mainland.

Somehow I managed not to want Irish children killed, though.”

What the UK faced from the IRA is totally different - no comparison. The Palestinians and neighbours have waged several wars on Israel to wipe to destroy it. Suicide bombs and knife attacks encouraged and taught to Palestinian children. You’ve seen 1000s of rockets fired in the past week - it really isn’t the same as the odd IRA bomb as horrible as they were

And I’d warrant the majority of Israelis do not want dead Palestinian children - stop absolving hamas and Palestinians for playing a part in this

@Diemme That's a caricature of Mohamed Bin Zayed!