AIBU with my demands from DH?

[Scramblerr]

DH and I have one DS - we've always known we want more than one DC. The first pregnancy was horrendous. I was hospitalised from eight weeks through until I was induced at 39 weeks. I was unbelievably sick, I thought I was going to die and considered abortion multiple times - I was so relieved when I went past 24 weeks and knew I could no longer make that decision (because I knew I'd regret it), I was pretty close to considering suicide. I had HG so was sick all day every day, right up to the end (even in labour), I began fainting and collapsing and had horrendous pains etc.
Skip ahead a few years and we knew we wanted another DC but also knew we weren't going to do the pregnancy thing again - it was the worst thing that either of us have been through. We applied to adopt and were rejected (like the vast majority of people are - there were six of us at our training sessions and all have now been rejected). The adoption agency had issues with our age (in our mid/late 20s so not young parents really but VERY young for adopters because most people who adopt are much older), they didn't like that DH would be taking the parental leave instead of me (simply because I earn more and I enjoy my job more and DH's job has better parental leave allowance), they had issues with DH's weight (he has a BMI of just below 30, but he has a body fat percentage of below 10% and is an athlete - the doctor said he was in great shape but the agency solely care about BMI) and they also had issues with MIL (she was an abusive parent and even though DH has been non-contact for a decade, and so have his siblings, the agency said that abuse is cyclical so he's likely to be abusive because she was). So, adoption is out as an option for us.
Surrogacy is an absolute no-go and so is adopting from abroad - for financial and legal reasons, we simply won't consider these options. This pretty much takes us back to only having pregnancy as an option - and that is what DH would like to do. I think I'm prepared to do it but I have a list of demands, I'm wondering whether my demands are unreasonable.

1. Wait until September to conceive because then I'm entitled to a higher rate of maternity pay from my employer.
2. Once we have had as many children as we choose to have, I'd like to have my breasts reduced and my tummy tucked. I've always had large breasts and after our one son and two years of breastfeeding, they're ginormous - I'm in pain all day every day, have no clothes that look nice and just HATE them. My tummy isn't TOO bad right now but I had some abdominal surgery in recent years too so I think another pregnancy might leave me looking like a deflated balloon.
3. He's got a holiday booked for next February to go skiing - I'd like him to cancel it. I don't know how well I'll be and we have DS to look after now too so I can't really risk him going away.
4. I'd like to give birth in the hospital I gave birth in last time - almost two hours away from where we now live. I simply don't trust the hospitals closer to us having had really awful experiences. The hospital where I gave birth were incredible and I trust them completely. My sister recently gave birth and her care during and after labour was horrendous so I know all hospitals are definitely not remotely the same in the level of care that they offer.
5. I'd like to be induced (like I was last time), which does somewhat help with the logistics of demand 4. I've checked that I'm allowed to give birth in any NHS hospital and choose to be induced as long as I'm at full term so that shouldn't be an issue for the midwife/consultant/hospital etc.

So, AIBU?

However, don't assume 'benefits and joy' from having siblings - I'm still waiting for mine!

I don't think you are being unreasonable , Hopefully it wont be as bad this time.
But you will need a lot of support in case it is so yanbu to say cancel ski holiday if we are trying to conceive, if your boobs are causing issues with your back etc then do it regardless , the tummy is more cosmetic and you might be fine.
Hospital and induction might be out of your hands but definitely worth inquiring. Perhaps talking it through with GP might be helpful.

I don’t really understand the concept of issuing a list of demands in return for you bearing a child that you want as well. It just doesn’t make sense. What if he says no to all or some of the “demands”, is that it, baby off the cards? Perhaps you should start discussing life plans as adults instead of setting our lists of demands.

@namechangemarch21

OP I'm pretty shocked at people acting like having another child is irresponsible/ up for debate. Its entirely your choice. I don't think its radical to be prepared to go through this for a second child.

I actually know someone who had basically an ongoing fight with his wife because she wanted a third, after two HG pregnancies which sound very like yours. In the end he gave in, but he was like a shell of a man: she was hospitalised from four months, he had to get special dispensation to work from home to support all childcare drop offs etc, he basically did everything. At least he knew in advance, and your Dh is also going in well prepared. In his case, he was happy for a second and reluctant for a third, though they are still happily together as far as I know.

In my case, I've had a HG pregnancy (only 12 weeks) for the first time with my second. I was only really sick for a week or so then I was put on meds which massively helped, but I've still required DH to do most of the heavy lifting. I've still not been my usual self with our toddler, and so she's started waking in the night, and is much more clingy with him, all of which DH is dealing with. He is totally stepping up and not complaining but he is exhausted, doing all meals and houseworks on very disturbed sleep and that's with my having medication that is 100% working.

In your shoes, I don't think your demands are especially unreasonable. I would really prioritise doing research in advance, while you're able, into drugs - even in a few years things have improved - and into 'best practice.' You are possibly really going to need to push. Its much better to have done all that thinking in advance. There are HG threads on here v helpful for info.

I'd also think through contingency plans for childcare, and how much support you can draft in if needed. Its very unpredictable.

But in terms of an induction - my husband is very involved, and engaged, and at absolutely no point did I think a single choice I made about my pregnancy or birth had anything to do with him. He is an equal parent, but its my body. I'm having to weigh up c section or not now and basically, I'm going to be dealing with the fall out of another tear or potentially the after effects of a section and I am making that call. I don't think you should be thinking he gets to input, no matter how well meaning he is.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

Thank you. Yes, we've looked into drugs and changes. SIL is a doctor so she's been sending through BMJ articles on HG and different options. DH and I both work in scientific areas so we're pretty well versed on the research and it is reassuring. I don't want to get my hopes up but I think the likelihood is that this time around will be much better. Still a risk though. DH and I decide all of these things together - I have a tendency of not thinking things through enough and going with my gut and he has a complete inability to make a firm decision and follow it through. So we balance each other out. I completely understand why other couples wouldn't but we do and that's just how we function best.

OP, I'd ignore the people saying you shouldn't have a second child. It's clearly not what you asked. Unsolicited opinions are rarely helpful!

Back to what you actually asked... I wouldn't think of them as demands OP. If you put it like that it will likely put your husband's back up. What you're really saying is you're willing to have another baby but only if your needs are met. That's not unreasonable at all.

Good luck OP.

Have you considered applying to a different adoption agency?

You aren't limited to your local one and there are lots of voluntary ones as well as other local authorities.

I think waiting until September (for enhanced benefits) before TTC is sensible.

The boob job and tummy tuck is neither here nor there

The holiday could / should be dependent on if you are pregnant or not

Your other 2 points are more difficult.
2 hours is a long way to travel for appointments and scans, even for a low risk pregnancy (you never know how it's going to pan out. I had two text book, low risk pregnancies and then a higher risk one with DC3 and was at the hospital every week). Induction is all well and good but most trusts won't offer them for non medical reasons before EDD, so you could well end up in labour with a 2 hour journey.

I think logistically your last two "demands" need to be reassessed.

None of this takes into consideration what will happen if you are as poorly with DC2 as you were in your last pregnancy. Its a long time to be away from your toddler (if you did need your be admitted for such a long period) and even feeling crap and not being admitted could make life difficult?

Lots for you to think about OP. But you have options and choices.

Can I just say that if you do go ahead really plan it out. I spoke to my gp about anti sickness meds before I even got pregnant the 2nd time. But I really wished I had thought about the impact on my child and how to help her. Think of the worst case and plan for that not hope it doesn't happen.

Sounds like a nightmare OP. I don't think I could face another pregnancy after one like that.

Could you move to a different council area and try for adoption again? Those seem like very extreme and unfair reasons to reject you for adoption.

I will say I do think drugs have improved hugely, and a lot of the issue seems to be access to them. I know there are some women who don't respond at all to any of the drugs, but I feel the majority still don't get the access and care they should.

I get the bouncing ideas off each other and discussing things, I have involved DH in conversations where I'm weighing up options around birth etc and asked his opinion. It just read a bit as though you thought he was an equal decision-maker, and I"ve seen people express that attitude - DH is very much of the view that its my body, and ultimately my choice, and I suppose its just always worth pointing out that you don't 'owe' anyone anything in terms of your birth choices.

OP, you lost me at "the benefits and joy of having a sibling"! Come on now - you must know it's a roll of the dice. You might birth his best friend, or his absolute nemesis! The second (and any subsequent) DC absolutely shouldn't be about your existing DC - it should only be about your and your DH desire to have and willingness/ability to care for and provide for the said child.

Anyhow, I had HG and it almost killed me. No way in hell would I ever, ever go back there again. Luckily I only ever wanted one DC, and never had the slightest broody twinge during the 13 years since. Having a narcissistic DB who blighted much of my childhood made me determined to never inflict a similar sibling on DD - because it is all simply a roll of the dice. I got lucky the first time and stopped.

Even if I'd been desperate for another DC I don't think I'd have been able to risk it again. I think you're extremely brave OP, to even consider it.

I echo what others have said about your 'demands' - the breast reduction sounds like a necessity, cancelling the holiday is a given, but the rest of it sounds like things you'd not really be able to fully control/plan. Guess you'll just have to suck it and see? Best of luck with it all.

I don’t think YABU. Understand the desire to have another child (absolutely stop at 2 though!). The barriers to adoption seem insane.

You don’t know what the next pg would be like. Can you look into medication in advance, see a private specialist for expert opinion? Find the best qualified person to advise so you’re going into it with the best possible support. That’s what I’d be doing.

I don’t agree with commercial surrogacy abroad or even surrogacy in the U.K for that matter, esp when it involves using a stranger to carry the baby, or a donated egg. But I might feel differently if it was a compassionate family member or friend that might carry your partners and your baby for you. Is that absolutely off the table? Appreciate it might well be.

@CarelessSquid07A

Have you considered applying to a different adoption agency?

You aren't limited to your local one and there are lots of voluntary ones as well as other local authorities.

We have but from speaking to quite a few, we're looking at either a larger age gap than we'd like and that's if they even allow us to adopt at all (which is unlikely after being rejected by one). I'd like to keep pursuing that option a bit longer but it's really draining on DH and he really struggles with being constantly led on and rejected. DH thinks we should give up on the adoption, he simply has no faith in the process anymore and I'm torn too.

One thing at a time OP, if you want another child then concentrate on that first and maybe research things you can do to minimise HG or make your pregnancy journey more comfortable for your son and family. Everything else is unrealistic at this point

sibling relationship are EXTREAMLY important and you dont have to justify wanting to give your child that to anyone

Extremely important to who? Siblings might not be able to stand the sight of each other when they grow up, I wouldn't care in the slightest if I never saw my brother again.
The joy of having a sibling is nonsense to a lot of people.

I find your post unusual in that you state these as demands...who are you demanding these to? If its to your husband why don't you just say this is what I need to make this work? I don't get the whole ask strangers if its OK to ask your husband for what you need?
can I suggest you look into health kinesiology and/or acupuncture to help with your sickness? I had sickness for part of the day for months and I really can't imagine being that sick 24/7.

If we side step the issue of whether you should have another kid...

1. Can you wait until after his holiday to ttc? Sounds like you potentially are going to both have a crappy year. Might as well have a wee bit of fun before especially when both still in 20s!

1. I think the surgery is comletey separate to you having a child. If once you are passed child rearing you still feel the same and you can afford it then come to decision as a couple if this is something you still want. For me I think its more the risks of surgery that the money, you can always find ways to increase income.

1. I think you are being unreasonable in request with pregnancy/birth. Its a nice plan to control the birth but realistically you will most likely need hospital input throughout your pregnancy for nutritional support and you are probably going to have to trust them/ make another plan to live near old hospital. If you do get to birth there its a bonus.

Perhaps I'm putting my own situation on but my first pregnancy was 100% healthy low risk induced birth and I assumed that every one after would be similar. My second had a nuchal chord and variances on late stage CTGs and reduced movements so I spent about 6 hours a day hooked up to CTG for the last 4 weeks. It would be entirely unreasonable to travel 2h to get to hospital in those circumstances. I felt awful for my DS who came back and forth with me every day and played on ipad filled with snack hanging out with me.

I do wish you all the best in whatever you decide, I admittedly have concerns but you seem set and probably best way to manage is early intervention of anti emetic/treatment plan for nutrition. Susie verril on insta just had her 3rd with HG and she has very real stories about it all which may help for support and I'm sure there's a YouTuber Angela Braniff who has a lot of advice. She ended up on TPN feed.

@Scramblerr

Thank you for your advice. We would like a second child - it's really not an absurd concept and we're capable of loving and enjoying DS whilst also wanting a second child. I love, appreciate and enjoy DS just fine - I never considered it to be a reflection on him that I'd want a second child.

I think people are saying they would stick to one child in your shoes, because you were hospitalised for 9 months and you said you thought you were dying.

7am until 6pm five days a week for your little one currently tells me that you've already got your hands more than full. In your circumstances I wouldn't have another child, HG aside.

Can’t you speak to the adoption people again? Your demands are mostly ridiculous and I would avoid pregnancy again given your history . Could DH lose a little weight and you’d already be older.

Why not just try a different adoption agency?

Ignore me - just seen you have answered that already

Also you do shared parental leave half and half which would still be less which they couldn’t object to.

I'm really quite surprised a hospital kept you in for 31 weeks. Your really going to risk being away from your child for that long again.
Also your child spends most of his life in nursery. 7am until 6pm every night is a very long day for a young child. I've not known many people in that situation that wanted to have another child while working those kind of hours, and yes I do know a lot of people with a lot of children, because I look after young children for a living.
People aren't telling you you're not allowed to have another child (makes you sound like a petulant child to be honest) they are saying you should really consider not having another because nothing about your situation is ideal.

I really don't understand why you want another child when you've placed the one you've got in someone else's care for the majority of their waking hours

Do you say this to fathers who work full time?