To ask honestly if you feel sorry for these women?

[LemonSherbetFancies]

Who are approaching 40 and single with no kids?
I know a few in this situation and they always say they feel judged and inferior to women of that age who do.
Personally, I do not feel sorry for them if they do not have kids as they are not for everyone. But I do feel for women who don't have a supportive and loving relationship. Now, I am not saying women need a man to be happy but I know from myself how much nicer my life is with DP in it.

But I do think one of the greatest lies women were sold was that marriage itself would make you happy.

Totally. The reality is that marriage benefits men far more than it does women. But you don't see men obsessing over big white dresses and stressing over table plans. Its maddening.

Are they though? I've certainly never thought so and nobody has ever given me that impression. I don't think its a common opinion against younger women either.
I feel like this is a very old fashioned notion.

It is an old-fashioned notion, but its still surprisingly sticky. You can't go a day on here without one of these posts from a woman who's had a wedding literally take over her life. Or one where a woman is paralysed with inertia because she's waiting for some useless no mark to propose to her. I'd be interested to see how many men's boards are littered with posts saying "woe is me, he hasn't proposed".

The whole cultural mythology of marriage and weddings is a largely female preoccupation. When in fact its an institution which essentially serves men. So why do we still run into it like lemmings in a miasma of hideous Disneyfication without properly understanding what its function is?

@FrangipaniDeLaSqueegeeMop

I am one except I have kids. I'm happier than I've ever been now I'm single. No one else to please, no man to answer to, no angst because I've spending my life with some selfish twat, no one to bother me, I can watch what I want on TV, and no getting nagged for wank-sock sex. I know I'll be told "My Nigel isn't like that" but honestly I don't know any men who don't fit the above description.

You see every day so many threads on MN about shitty, shitty men and it baffles me why anyone would feel sorry for me that I don't have some lazy dullard with a premature ejaculation problem and a toxic masculinity problem by my side.

Lol.

I have to say the real-life relationships my female friends and family members are in aren't very envy-inducing. Most settled for mediocre specimens.

It is an old-fashioned notion, but its still surprisingly sticky. You can't go a day on here without one of these posts from a woman who's had a wedding literally take over her life. Or one where a woman is paralysed with inertia because she's waiting for some useless no mark to propose to her. I'd be interested to see how many men's boards are littered with posts saying "woe is me, he hasn't proposed".

I'm amazed at the number of young, educated, independent women who take their husband's name on marriage. I would have thought that tradition would have died out long ago, but if anything, it's enjoying a resurgence.

It is an old-fashioned notion, but its still surprisingly sticky. You can't go a day on here without one of these posts from a woman who's had a wedding literally take over her life. Or one where a woman is paralysed with inertia because she's waiting for some useless no mark to propose to her. I'd be interested to see how many men's boards are littered with posts saying "woe is me, he hasn't proposed"

It's not something I've come across in real life though, and I don't know any young women that ever mention marriage. Most that I know have no intention of marriage or children, from what they say.
I'm just not buying that large numbers of women think marriage is some kind of happy ever after goal, in the 21st century. I don't see it.

I quite sure 'these women' do not want your pity. You've positioned yourself as above certain people due to the man and children In your life because that's where your value and self worth lie. But frankly there is so much to life that doing so is only reductionist, lazy and narrow minded.

I'm amazed at the number of young, educated, independent women who take their husband's name on marriage. I would have thought that tradition would have died out long ago, but if anything, it's enjoying a resurgence.

My father was an arsehole, my husband is fantastic. If I was going to have one of their names, it was no contest which one. My husband is also far more invested in women's rights than my misogynistic father ever was.

I've had a lot of people feel sorry for me and had many uncomfortable chats with so-called friends who have convinced me 'i'll be fine' and 'you'll find the one' and don't worry 'it'll happen for you' ugh all because i'm a single mum and have been for a while. But i'm really happy with the life that I created for me and my DC. But I do agree that unfortunately women are a bit judged at a certain age when they are single with no children like its only these 'achievements' people focus on that mean you've made a success of your life. Which simply isn't true. Success is different for everyone and so are the choices people make for themselves. The same 'opinion' or 'judgement' doesn't seem to be said about men they are just considered 'bachelors' without a 'negative' stigma attached. This is just my opinion though really. I can imagine there are different views on the single/no kids male perhaps

toocoldforsno

"It's not something I've come across in real life though, and I don't know any young women that ever mention marriage. Most that I know have no intention of marriage or children, from what they say."

That's great: one of the most encouraging things I've heard on here in a long time. I may be showing my age but a lot of my contemporaries (including me) all of them successful women who supported themselves, had some barmy red mist descend upon them when they hit their late 20s and got married basically because they'd drunk the kook aid and felt like it was the thing to do. It still makes men angry thinking about it now.

I was lucky enough that I was able to divorce without it having a significant impact on my financial wellbeing. Most of my friends are muddling along in their marriages to a greater or lesser extent: some of their husbands are nice and supportive, some not so much. Most of them have not made disastrous marriages but in every single case I would say they have compromised and would be happier, richer and more successful alone. I may be projecting, but I just think it limits women so much.

Marriage is absolutely the right course of action if you are planning to take time out of the workforce to care for children for any length of time. If you're not, its just not worth the grief. We should be teaching this in schools: look at marriage as a financial contract just like buying a house. Do the due diligence, work out if it actually benefits you or not. If it doesn't, don't do it.

After a while it will start to sink in.

Megplant
I usually feel sorry for women who have to live with their rotten grumpy husbands grin
I've never seen a marriage I'd want to be a part of though - plenty of the women seem happy enough whilst I'm thinking 'HOW CAN YOU STAND HIM!?' (Plenty of times I feel similarly for the husband).

This with bells on!!!

I can assure you no pity is required.

One of the women at work ( no kids) has a “World’s Greatest Dog Mum” mug. I think it is one of the saddest things I have ever seen.

@Temp023

One of the women at work ( no kids) has a “World’s Greatest Dog Mum” mug. I think it is one of the saddest things I have ever seen.

Why?

@Temp023

One of the women at work ( no kids) has a “World’s Greatest Dog Mum” mug. I think it is one of the saddest things I have ever seen.

Would you feel less pity for her if she had a mug saying: "mum to a grown-arsed man"?

I know who I'd rather play mother to...

No, l disagree, l know many single women without children who are genuinely happy and if l dare say say, look years younger.
I am a single parent, l feel absolutely no desire to change that and a lot of women with husband's or partners regularly tell me they envy me. You.will probably bring the opposite that a lot of single women pity the ones like you.

Find, not bring.

Hell no! If anything i live vicariously through them as i wade through the dynamics of dirty nappies, demanding dc's and dh; i get no time to myself! I see these ladies as living a peaceful lovely life filled with tranquility and company as and when wanted.

"One of the women at work ( no kids) has a “World’s Greatest Dog Mum” mug. I think it is one of the saddest things I have ever seen."

I just want you to know that some people have war in their countries.

@thepeopleversuswork

But I do think one of the greatest lies women were sold was that marriage itself would make you happy.

Totally. The reality is that marriage benefits men far more than it does women. But you don't see men obsessing over big white dresses and stressing over table plans. Its maddening.

Are they though? I've certainly never thought so and nobody has ever given me that impression. I don't think its a common opinion against younger women either.
I feel like this is a very old fashioned notion.

It is an old-fashioned notion, but its still surprisingly sticky. You can't go a day on here without one of these posts from a woman who's had a wedding literally take over her life. Or one where a woman is paralysed with inertia because she's waiting for some useless no mark to propose to her. I'd be interested to see how many men's boards are littered with posts saying "woe is me, he hasn't proposed".

The whole cultural mythology of marriage and weddings is a largely female preoccupation. When in fact its an institution which essentially serves men. So why do we still run into it like lemmings in a miasma of hideous Disneyfication without properly understanding what its function is?

The thing is you can get married without all the Bridezilla stuff.

As one of "those women" I feel sorry for the women whose lives are governed by their husbands and kids and can't just do what they want when they want

I'm jealous of them tbh.

@DrSbaitso

I'm amazed at the number of young, educated, independent women who take their husband's name on marriage. I would have thought that tradition would have died out long ago, but if anything, it's enjoying a resurgence.

My father was an arsehole, my husband is fantastic. If I was going to have one of their names, it was no contest which one. My husband is also far more invested in women's rights than my misogynistic father ever was.

By that logic, you of course aren't taking your husband's name, but his father's name.

Do you have brothers? Have they all taken their wife's name rather than their father's?

"But I do feel for women who don't have a supportive and loving relationship"

I've just started dating someone I've known for two years, in my 50's after being happily single for eight years. I don't need support. I can sort out my own life. I've had loving relationships in my life for all that time, just not sexual ones. I wanted company and someone to have a laugh with. We don't all have the same needs, so it's patronising of you to 'feel' for other women.