To ask honestly if you feel sorry for these women?

[LemonSherbetFancies]

Who are approaching 40 and single with no kids?
I know a few in this situation and they always say they feel judged and inferior to women of that age who do.
Personally, I do not feel sorry for them if they do not have kids as they are not for everyone. But I do feel for women who don't have a supportive and loving relationship. Now, I am not saying women need a man to be happy but I know from myself how much nicer my life is with DP in it.

[CoalCraft]

The idea that I'm only with my husband because I want children is ridiculous. I didn't even know I wanted children when I got together with him, and If I wasn't with him I'd use sperm donation.

Get this; some women marry or form new long-term relationships when they are well-past childbearing age. DH's grandfather was in his 60s and a widower when he married a widow in her 60s. Somehow I doubt either of them expected children from the union. Similarly DH's mother, who's approaching 60 and divorced, is talking about marrying her mid-50s partner of 5 years. Again, I don't suppose either anticipate having children.

And in case people say "oh well, they're old and have children already", lots of young people plan on staying childfree and get married anyway. Two of my closest friends are a young couple (mid-20s) considering marriage, and vehemently reject the idea of having kids. I've known the woman longer and she has always not wanted kids.

I'm sure there are women who marry just so they can relatively easily have children, but to suggest that this is the norm is bizarre. Most people love their spouses!

[DrSbaitso]

Maybe not all wives. I'd bet my house on this being true with at least half of women in marriages though. Ironically, the only two marriages I know where the couple concerned are visibly still in love are those without children.

It isn't true of me. I know I'm not every woman, but I'm not vanishingly unusual. "Visibly still in love" can be misleading; MN is the first place to declare that anyone who posts about being in love on social media must be headed for divorce...

Kids do take a bat to your relationship, that's true. It would be desperately sad not to have them if you both wanted them, though. And they do get easier.

[LizzieW1969]

In all honesty, sometimes I really envy those people who are happily childfree, whether they’re in a relationship or not. My life would have been much easier if I hadn’t desperately wanted DC in my mid to late 30s when I turned out to be infertile and went through a failed IVF cycle and then my DH and I adopted our DDs (now 12 and 9).

I really wouldn’t be without my DDs, as I love them to bits, but adoption is such a hard road a lot of the time.

[thepeopleversuswork]

@DrSbaitso

Even in the best case scenario its always a compromise which women make for children.

I respect and accept your experience, but this is not true. Well, all relationships involve compromise of a sort, but it is simply not the case that all wives, even the happiest ones, are just enduring their husbands to a greater or lesser extent so they can have kids.

Maybe not all wives. I'd bet my house on this being true with at least half of women in marriages though.

Ironically, the only two marriages I know where the couple concerned are visibly still in love are those without children.

[NCforsafety]

Patronising smugness.

[DrSbaitso]

I really think that it simply comes down to the fact that women have a time limit in a way that men haven't. Knowing that they won't be able to have a child more or less indefinitely not only puts the pressure on at a certain age but may well create the urge in the first place; the old psychological trick of wanting something more when you can't have it, or can't always get it.

I used to think it was nature's way of stopping women from killing themselves as pregnancy, childbirth and early motherhood take so much out of you, but now I wonder if it's actually nature's way of trying to manipulate us into having kids, since it really does take such a massive toll!

[Onlinedilema]

I agree with a lot of what has been said. I am very happily married but it is a second marriage for both dh and I and we don't have any dependant children.
The issue women ( and some men ) have is that within our society you often need to have a husband or partner to have a child. It's not the acceptable thing to choose a sperm donor and have a child as a single woman. So women tend to have a child with the man they are attracted to and settle down with. Often this man is not suitable husband and father materrial, he simply does not pull his weight.
Unhappiness ensues.
Of course lots of marriages and partnerships are great. A good friend of mine has an excellent marriage both her and her husband are blissfully happy. They are childless though so maybe that is a factor.
There is pressure for women to settle down rather than explore and enjoy life and use fertility treatment later on in life of they want a child.

[DrSbaitso]

Even in the best case scenario its always a compromise which women make for children.

I respect and accept your experience, but this is not true. Well, all relationships involve compromise of a sort, but it is simply not the case that all wives, even the happiest ones, are just enduring their husbands to a greater or lesser extent so they can have kids.

[thepeopleversuswork]

I absolutely love being a mother. It's my absolute favourite thing I've ever done. But I hated being a wife. Admittedly I had a particularly shit husband but honestly, even when I look at the happiest of my friends' marriages it's really clear that the men bring less to the table than they take. I never, ever, ever want to live like that again. Being single is almost always a much better deal for women.

This should be carved in stone somewhere.

I also love being a mother but loathed being a wife. Even in the best case scenario its always a compromise which women make for children. One which may or may not be worth it for the children but almost never is for the women.

[trancepants]

I absolutely love being a mother. It's my absolute favourite thing I've ever done. But I hated being a wife. Admittedly I had a particularly shit husband but honestly, even when I look at the happiest of my friends' marriages it's really clear that the men bring less to the table than they take. I never, ever, ever want to live like that again. Being single is almost always a much better deal for women.

Obviously in practical terms my DS brings less to the table than he takes. I'm responsible for looking after him in pretty much every way still and will be for the next few years as he's a young child. Then I'll still be more responsible in ever decreasing increments and I expect that there will be many times that will actually be harder as he tries to assert independence in selfish ways. But that's normal for a child now and will be for a teen in the future. I can see how this level of responsibility is not desired by many people. But to me, the payoff of the love and joy and frankly re-release of my own inner child is more than worth it. It was also his right to a happy safe home that made me look honestly at my husband and leave the bastard.

[justanotherneighinparadise]

I don’t feel sorry for anyone unless they are desperately unhappy and require help. Being 40 and childless sounds rather lovely to me because currently I’m ill and struggling under a mountain
if house chores. As long as these 40 year olds have a futility career and social life I’m sure they are having a rare old time.

[haliborangemrmen]

@Mupp64

When I read your post I thought you were being ironic or taking the piss - then it dawned on me that you were serious and I just needed to explain to you that women who you might "feel sorry for" are actually feeling gutted for you - a humdrum brain numbing existence caring for demanding children and a partner everyday - presumably cooking/washing/cleaning & playing nurse maid to the lot of them
This would be my idea of hell on earth - I'd rather stick pins in my eyes - we single, childless adults chose not to have the noose of parenting hanging around our necks - we celebrate our life and pity yours - I have 4 sisters who would give their back teeth to have realised early on that the joys of domesticity and motherhood is a myth
Keep your sympathy for yourself as you might need it when you take off your rose tinted glasses and soon realise that your a cart horse in disguise

Wow. That's offensive!
Gutted for us? Hum drum brain numbing existence? Noose of parenting? Really?
I think your sisters must be stuck in pretty awful domestic situations if that's understanding of having a family life. That's a shame for them and for you.

I don't feel sorry for single childless women. I was one for many many years and I was perfectly happy with my choice. I am however happier than I realised possible now I have children.

The beauty of life is we are all different, with different talents, ambitions, personalities, and lives. Let's celebrate that without making offensive comments about those who are different in anyway.

[the80sweregreat]

I sometimes wished I hadn't brought children into this wicked world. My two won't have the advantages my dh and I have had and owning a home and pensions may even by unobtainable
by the time they get to their old age.
I love them loads but it's hard and both only have normal jobs. I sort about their futures something I didn't worry about twenty odd years ago when I had them if I'm honest.
I feel it's a bleak life for a child these days ( unless they are born into wealth from day one)
No wonder people are staying child free.

[drpet49]

* I kind of doubt that you know ‘many’ women of a similar age who feel pitied and regarded as spinsters (a term barely anyone uses anymore) and have all confided their feelings in you.*

I genuinely know 3 people who feel like this.

[deeplyambivalent]

@Dreamingofbeergardens

I feel sorry for them because some people assume they are unhappy or hold the view that they have failed in some way. Why people assume having a partner and kids is what everybody should want I will never understand!

^ This. (Plus every 3 hours someone pops up to ask them why they're on MN if they don't have kids)

[Jasmine245]

Wasn't there research showing that overall women are happier single and men are happier married? I feel more sorry for women trapped in abusive relationships.

[Mupp64]

When I read your post I thought you were being ironic or taking the piss - then it dawned on me that you were serious and I just needed to explain to you that women who you might "feel sorry for" are actually feeling gutted for you - a humdrum brain numbing existence caring for demanding children and a partner everyday - presumably cooking/washing/cleaning & playing nurse maid to the lot of them
This would be my idea of hell on earth - I'd rather stick pins in my eyes - we single, childless adults chose not to have the noose of parenting hanging around our necks - we celebrate our life and pity yours - I have 4 sisters who would give their back teeth to have realised early on that the joys of domesticity and motherhood is a myth
Keep your sympathy for yourself as you might need it when you take off your rose tinted glasses and soon realise that your a cart horse in disguise

[redcarbluecar]

I kind of doubt that you know ‘many’ women of a similar age who feel pitied and regarded as spinsters (a term barely anyone uses anymore) and have all confided their feelings in you. I expect there are people who would prefer their lives to be different (whatever that life may be) but they probably don’t need to be artificially grouped and offered anyone’s nebulous ‘sympathy’.

[CoalCraft]

I feel sorry for people (not just women) who want to be in a loving relationship but aren't.

I feel sorry for people (not just women) who want to have kids, but don't.

I don't feel sorry for people that are happy, whether that's with a partner, kids, both or neither.

[feelingsadtoday2021]

@Temp023

Why ?

[Mandalay246]

One of the women at work ( no kids) has a “World’s Greatest Dog Mum” mug. I think it is one of the saddest things I have ever seen.

Why? She's probably perfectly happy being a "Dog Mum". Not everyone wants children - and if that's one of the saddest things you've ever seen then you have lived a very sheltered life.

[Athenajm80]

Yes! I think that about most of my friends' relationships, and sometimes think they could do so much better. They're happy though, so providing they don't keep trying to get me to settle down (the operative word being settle) then we're all good

[RaeRaeMama]

It wouldn't even cross my mind to feel sorry for them

I don't think there's anything wrong with being single

It's a bit sad that some people are so afraid to be alone... if anything I would admire a woman who is 40 and single, she is happy with herself... she isn't putting up with some shit man. The women I feel sorry for are the ones in relationships with men who don't treat them with respect, you know, the kinds of women who are treated like slaves. Those women deserve our compassion.