To ask honestly if you feel sorry for these women?

[LemonSherbetFancies]

Who are approaching 40 and single with no kids?
I know a few in this situation and they always say they feel judged and inferior to women of that age who do.
Personally, I do not feel sorry for them if they do not have kids as they are not for everyone. But I do feel for women who don't have a supportive and loving relationship. Now, I am not saying women need a man to be happy but I know from myself how much nicer my life is with DP in it.

@thepeopleversuswork

Not at all. It's one of the greatest secrets of life that child-free, unmarried women have been shown in some studies to be the happiest category of people in society. My closest friend is single and child-free and has probably achieved more than anyone I know.

Now this is just counter productive bullshit.

As I said earlier, some women are happy child-free and unmarried for life, and good for them, and some women are happy to be married with children, and good for THEM. There is no right or wrong, and no 'one size fits all.'

As I said earlier, get married and have kids if you want, or stay single and child free. It's got naff all to do with anyone, but neither choice is better than the other, and neither choice makes you superior... So let's please dispense with the 'it's been proven that single child-free women are happier than married women with children' type comments. Because that makes you as bad as the OP, with the offensive generalising bullshit.

Some single child free women are very unhappy and lonely, some are as happy as pigs in shite, and would never want anything any other way. Some married women with children are very unhappy and lonely, and some are as happy as pigs in shite, would never want anything any other way, and can not imagine life without their children.

No 'choice' is better than the other, and this pitching one against the other, and coming out with comments like 'I know more single child free women who are super happy, than I do married women with kids who are' is just shitty.

And that goes out to a few others on this thread (who are single and child free,) with the same attitude that single child free women are ALWAYS happier than married women with children. With comments like they feel sorry for married women with children, and they PITY their life.

Stop over-egging the pudding eh? We get it, you're having a BALL being single and child free. Good for you!

Since having DC my automatic reaction is jealousy!

I'd feel sorry for someone if I knew a partner/children was what they really wanted and it wasn't happening for them, but no I definitely wouldn't automatically pity anyone without knowing their situation. It's sexism at it's finest really. It's patronising and paternalistic and I ensure to correct anyone I know who starts muttering such sentiments.

[quote littlepattilou]@thepeopleversuswork

Not at all. It's one of the greatest secrets of life that child-free, unmarried women have been shown in some studies to be the happiest category of people in society. My closest friend is single and child-free and has probably achieved more than anyone I know.

Now this is just counter productive bullshit.

As I said earlier, some women are happy child-free and unmarried for life, and good for them, and some women are happy to be married with children, and good for THEM. There is no right or wrong, and no 'one size fits all.'

As I said earlier, get married and have kids if you want, or stay single and child free. It's got naff all to do with anyone, but neither choice is better than the other, and neither choice makes you superior... So let's please dispense with the 'it's been proven that single child-free women are happier than married women with children' type comments. Because that makes you as bad as the OP, with the offensive generalising bullshit.

Some single child free women are very unhappy and lonely, some are as happy as pigs in shite, and would never want anything any other way. Some married women with children are very unhappy and lonely, and some are as happy as pigs in shite, would never want anything any other way, and can not imagine life without their children.

No 'choice' is better than the other, and this pitching one against the other, and coming out with comments like 'I know more single child free women who are super happy, than I do married women with kids who are' is just shitty.

And that goes out to a few others on this thread (who are single and child free,) with the same attitude that single child free women are ALWAYS happier than married women with children. With comments like they feel sorry for married women with children, and they PITY their life.

Stop over-egging the pudding eh? We get it, you're having a BALL being single and child free. Good for you![/quote]
It’s not “counter-productive bullshit’. It’s fairly well established by numerous credible studies that single, childfree women exhibit higher levels of happiness than other categories of women.

It depends on the individual.

I'd feel a bit sorry for somebody who, for example, hadn't ever had a partner because of the way they looked. Maybe they're perfectly lovely but have a life changing disability which puts potential partners off. I have a friend who has been on all the dating sites but struggles as she's very overweight and I do honestly feel a bit sorry for her. She'd have a boyfriend in a few weeks if she was a slim nubile blonde with traditional good looks.

Now, I am not saying women need a man to be happy

You kind of are though.

but I know from myself how much nicer my life is with DP in it.

That's great, but to be quite frank, I doubt your 'DP' is so special that every other woman on earth is desperate to be with him.

Might also be worth pointing out that numerous studies have shown that the happiest people are single women and married men. Rates of happiness tend to increase for men after marriage, but stagnate or decrease for women. Goes against everything women are told of course, but there you have it.

So maybe we single women should be feeling sorry for you?

'it's been proven that single child-free women are happier than married women with children' type comments. Because that makes you as bad as the OP, with the offensive generalising bullshit.

Or maybe it makes you an expert in sociology & statistical analysis.

Because, much as I agree with your remarks about there being no one-size-fits-al @littlepattiloul, & that various people are happy/sad in various circumstances, in general terms, the studies indicating eg more expansive social networks & everyday support systems, a less insular outlook, more freedom from facilitating roles, & more personal choice & happiness for single women are well documented & factual.

Which doesn't mean anyone has to defend one camp over another, as the OP did rather markedly with her patronising nonsense about pitying women (not men, I notice) who are spouse-free.

It’s not “counter-productive bullshit’. It’s fairly well established by numerous credible studies that single, childfree women exhibit higher levels of happiness than other categories of women.

Snap! I've just said the same.

And funnily enough, the reverse is true for men.

Going by all the MN threads about useless husbands, it's hardly a surprise.

@ErykahBaddy

I think to not have a family by then would be devastating and I would think they only think they’re happy because they don’t know what they’re missing. It’s very sad

I think to not have a huge face tattoo by age 40 would be devastating and I would think people without one only think they’re happy because they don’t know what they’re missing. It’s very sad.

my favourite post so far.. This thread is a hoot

No, why would you if they are happy? It's very judgemental to feel sorry for someone that doesn't want what you want/have, because they may not want it! I'd feel more sorry for the many people on here that are run into the ground with awful partners and nightmare children

@Pan2

This looks like a standard 'setting women against women through comparison' thread.

I think so too. The OP basically lit the fuse and ran off.

There are few women that I am friends with that fit your description and it is an active choice, it is not because they are deficient in some way.

Yes society is a bit backward and seems to believe that a woman will shrivel up and die if she doesn't procreate, but wiping shitty bottoms isn't for everyone, in fact it is some people's idea of hell - the people that I know are very happy with their choices and the freedom it gives them, in the same way that people are happy to have had kids (although strangely that isn't a socially acceptable question to ask!)

Might also be worth pointing out that numerous studies have shown that the happiest people are single women and married men.

But this is somewhat confounded by the fact that many women say that having kids is extremely stressful but they still wouldn't change it. They may be less 'happy' running around and being stressed out but it's still what they want and would choose again.

Also, do people really tell the truth in studies? I think they often doth protest too much, like the fat people who say they're body positive and are happy being big - I think they'd swap with Taylor Swift in a heartbeat if I'm honest.

You do know that single women can have kids if they want them right op?

@MrsTroutfire

Might also be worth pointing out that numerous studies have shown that the happiest people are single women and married men.

But this is somewhat confounded by the fact that many women say that having kids is extremely stressful but they still wouldn't change it. They may be less 'happy' running around and being stressed out but it's still what they want and would choose again.

Also, do people really tell the truth in studies? I think they often doth protest too much, like the fat people who say they're body positive and are happy being big - I think they'd swap with Taylor Swift in a heartbeat if I'm honest.

You're right. People don't always tell the truth. So the women who insist that having children is the best thing that ever happened to them and that they wouldn't change it may also be 'protesting too much', because admitting that they regret having children would be too painful.

I don't doubt most women who choose to have children are happy with that choice. I also don't doubt that most women who choose to remain single and childfree are also happy with that choice. But given high divorce rates - about 70% of which are initiated by women, and the fact that divorced women are half as likely to express a desire to remarry than divorced men - then it's obvious that marriage very often fails to bring happiness, especially for women.

I'm 40, single, childless,and for the most part happy. I feel sorry for people who can't be happy on their own and who jump from relationship to relationship. I love being single, can't imagine ever loving someone as much/more as I love being single. I only wanted kids once, briefly, with an ex. Luckily, we didn't have any as I think it was a side effect of the brain chemistry reaction to him, rather than actually wanting them.
I have my own house, relatively good job, and can do whatever I want whenever I want. The thought of giving that up for the type of muppet some of my friends have settled with....thanks, but no thanks.

I'd love to be single but finances, society, children etc etc. I am married and very happy but in a dream parallel universe I could have it all and not be in a relationship. I don't feel sorry for single people.

I feel that OP might be an misogynist male actually.

I can't imagine a woman having these "feelings"

@MrsTroutfire

Might also be worth pointing out that numerous studies have shown that the happiest people are single women and married men.

But this is somewhat confounded by the fact that many women say that having kids is extremely stressful but they still wouldn't change it. They may be less 'happy' running around and being stressed out but it's still what they want and would choose again.

Also, do people really tell the truth in studies? I think they often doth protest too much, like the fat people who say they're body positive and are happy being big - I think they'd swap with Taylor Swift in a heartbeat if I'm honest.

That's society talking. It's because for millennia society has borne down on women and told them that they are not valid, respected or indeed due a position of respect in society unless they are married with children. These attitudes don't get shaken off overnight.

Most men wouldn't change the fact that they've had children either: the majority of people who have children love them. But the reality is that it isn't men who birth them, nurse them and do the vast majority of their care - often to the detriment of their own financial security and self-development.

These factors influence the fact that children tend to loom larger in women's sense of achievement than men's but that doesn't mean women intrinsically need children to feel whole. And it certainly doesn't mean that women crave the traditional married with children set up in order to fulfil their emotional needs.

I feel sorry that it's 2021 and people still cannot comprehend that everyone's different and that what fulfils you won't necessary fulfil someone else.

I could say that I feel sorry for women who have no ambition beyond that of being a housewife. The same way I could say that I feel sorry for women who will never get the chance to save a life on the surgical table. But of course, those statements are ridiculous, just like the ones mentioning how sorry they feel for women who don't have a husband and/or children.

Everyone has their own idea as to what constitutes their ideal life. To completely discount and dismiss someone else's choices is incredibly patronising and ironically, is something worth feeling sorry for as it demonstrates a lack of understanding beyond your own lived experiences.

Gawd 🤮

I’m in my 40s and a mum of three. I’m very happy with my DH and we have a lovely life. My only regret is that having children absolutely torpedoed my first career. I’ve since retrained in something else, but those years of anguish where I was hanging on by my fingertips until I finally had to let go were heartbreaking and left a permanent scar.

I have four close female friends who are child free and man free (most of the time ). Two of them are living their best lives and giving zero fucks while doing it. They’ve both reached the top of their professional game and have earned a ton of money in the process.

One friend has it all on paper, also lives abroad in an amazing city, but I know it really hurts her that she’s never met the right person to have a family with.

Final friend has some weird enmeshment with her family and still lives at home with her mum even though she’s in her forties. Not really sure what’s going on there but it’s... unusual.

I definitely don’t think you need to have kids to have a full life. I’m pretty sure if I hadn’t met DH or had kids my life would have been very good anyway.

But the reality is that it isn't men who birth them, nurse them and do the vast majority of their care - often to the detriment of their own financial security and self-development.

...and then often go on to work PT for the next 35 years whilst the man works long hours and shoulders the financial burden. Obviously this isn't always the case but I don't think SAHM or housewives are always the martyrs people make out on here.

Women who choose to be single and childfree are shown in research to be the happiest group. Choosing to be single is very different from being single and not wanting to be.
The happiest group of men are those who are in happy marriages.

@MrsTroutfire

But the reality is that it isn't men who birth them, nurse them and do the vast majority of their care - often to the detriment of their own financial security and self-development.

...and then often go on to work PT for the next 35 years whilst the man works long hours and shoulders the financial burden. Obviously this isn't always the case but I don't think SAHM or housewives are always the martyrs people make out on here.

I'm not saying SAHMs are martyrs at all. I'm saying that its a mistake to assume that because having children often features higher in many women's bucket list than men's that this is to do with some intrinsic biological need for children which women have and men don't. A significant part of this is social conditioning and/or lack of other opportunities to find fulfilment.

And also that there's a political imperative to make women feel that their chief source of fulfilment is marriage and children: and that this is an agenda which has been driven primarily by men, whose needs it serves best.

None of this means women will stop wanting to get married and have children, but it means the assumption that a woman can't be happy or fulfilled without this is just wrong.

I am one except I have kids. I'm happier than I've ever been now I'm single. No one else to please, no man to answer to, no angst because I've spending my life with some selfish twat, no one to bother me, I can watch what I want on TV, and no getting nagged for wank-sock sex. I know I'll be told "My Nigel isn't like that" but honestly I don't know any men who don't fit the above description.

You see every day so many threads on MN about shitty, shitty men and it baffles me why anyone would feel sorry for me that I don't have some lazy dullard with a premature ejaculation problem and a toxic masculinity problem by my side.