AIBU to ask SAHD to clean?

[RunningAtStuff]

I work FT and my OH is a SAHD, we have three DCs, two at primary, one just at secondary and eldest has additional needs.
Before lockdown we had a cleaner once a week. Through lockdown we were dividing all chores as he was doing home schooling and I was working long hours from home.
Now schools are open again but I’m still wfh I don’t want a cleaner - it feels lazy (and I’m a little bit Covid paranoid about having someone in the house). But I’m doing most of (all) the cleaning at weekends. OH does all the cooking, kids stuff and we share the laundry.
AIBU to ask him to do the cleaning too and not pay for a cleaner? It feels like he just doesn’t notice when things are dirty and is comfortable with a higher level of chaos than I am, so I feel like it’s my problem and therefore my job to do. I do want him to have a break and time to himself and I know the time the kids are actually at school isn’t that long so maybe it’s unrealistic?

@SimonJT

Get a cleaner, most people who have them don’t need them, we both work part time, we dislike cleaning and can’t really be bothered to do it, so we pay a cleaner to do it for us.

I do think the person who demands the higher standard should be the one to either clean to that standard themselves or to hire someone who meets that standard.

Agreed. Maybe the OP could explain her requirements and the husband could supervise the cleaner and ensure it gets done properly.

@MrsTroutfire

In all seriousness though, I think a big part of attaining equality is to destigmatise men being SAHP. It's a bit rich to all jump on a man for not working when the kids are at school when loads of women never return to full time employment even when the kids are grown - usually because the husband 'earns enough'.

Fully agree with this

What's good for the goose is good for the gander....isn't that the saying?

If the STAHP had been a woman in the post - she wouldn't have been advised to go back to work, she would have been advised to tell her working husband that he needed to pitch in with 50% of the household chores (as someone on a thread this week stated) or tell him to pay for a cleaner but MN loves a double standard 🤣 🤷‍♀️

@MrsTroutfire

In all seriousness though, I think a big part of attaining equality is to destigmatise men being SAHP. It's a bit rich to all jump on a man for not working when the kids are at school when loads of women never return to full time employment even when the kids are grown - usually because the husband 'earns enough'.

I disagree - I think it would be better to push for men to have a more active role from the start via a Nordic model of parental leave, then encourage flexibility for men and women with young children so that it's more feasible for both parents to work and to be active at home. It's also really important to subsidise childcare - there's a reason that most Scandinavian countries have very very few SAHPs and a big part of that is because people don't get trapped in the cycle of not going back to work because their wage will not cover or only barely cover childcare.

Have a sahp as a long term choice works for some families, but so often can lead to significant poverty or difficulties in the case of the working partner dying or relationship breakdown (often with young kids but also as women get older and realise they have virtually no pension entitlement), can force people to stay in awful relationship, and doesn't show children how home life, childcare and responsibilities should be shared.

@fishonabicycle

Your husband should definitely be doing the cleaning with 3 children at school. That is a massive amount of free time.

If he doesn't like cleaning then why should he? The OP has maintained the privilege of working and the husband has already selflessly sacrificed his career to facilitate hers.

but I do sometimes wonder if many of the people claiming that being a SAHP is harder have ever actually had a stressful senior management position

Very true. I'm currently home with 3 month old twins and a 5 year old. My job is stressful and challenging and pressured - being a SAHM for me is much easier (but you're not allowed to say it for fear of being accused of devaluing STAHM)

He obviously must fill his day somehow, so what does he do? One of my friends is a sahm, she goes back to bed after the school drop off, then has breakfast around lunchtime, does housework and goes to the gym before picking up the kids. Sometimes she will meet up with friends or family instead of the housework. On my days off, I will normally put a wash on before my kids go to preschool, have breakfast, wash dishes and then hoover, mop as needed before they get back at 12.30. Sometimes I will go back to bed and none of that gets done, I'm 24 weeks pregnant it just depends on how I feel and I will do any cooking or cleaning in the evening. Speak to your dh, is cleaning meant to be one of 'his' jobs as the samp? If it is, mention it. If you can afford a cleaner and think it will benefit your family go for it.

I was joking about the husband supervising the cleaner though. My partner would love to sit back and do this given half a chance. 😂

Doubt many MNetters would post to a SAHM with school age DC (when schools are open!) that her partner should be doing 50% of the domestic work!

You say ‘OH’ not DH. Are you married?

If you’re not married, and he’s not super wealthy, he’s taken a massive personal risk SAH and would be well advised to seek full time work!

While the DC are in school, 30 hours a week is more than enough time to get cleaning and other stuff done and have some leisure time.

All of you set on this 6 hours a day by the time you do school run and get home depending on how far kids schools are he might be home for 5 hours a day in that time he does bits of housework, then collects kids and looks after them again if he is lucky he might get an hour to sit at lunch time

Even if you are married, SAH long term has some big personal risks and costs, eg loss of earning ability in the labour market, pension. And some different risks for the sole earner.

but I do sometimes wonder if many of the people claiming that being a SAHP is harder have ever actually had a stressful senior management position

Not just a management position, I’d imagine teachers, nurses, doctors and a whole host of roles would argue that working is harder than being a SAHP. I would just be very if anyone claimed not working was harder than having any job.

It’s a bit like the comment of “they can’t work without me being home”. Really?

5 hours - 25 hours a week - would still be a LOT!

What does he do during the day OP? And is he going to be looking for a job now all DCs are at school?

Very true. I'm currently home with 3 month old twins and a 5 year old. My job is stressful and challenging and pressured - being a SAHM for me is much easier (but you're not allowed to say it for fear of being accused of devaluing STAHM).

I don't have kids so I may be talking out my bottom, but I've always been able to manage late nights and repetition/frustration etc, going a week without a decent night's sleep. What caused me stress was things like doing client presentations with our divisional MD present and having to manage multi million pound bids which had countless points of failure due to the number of people involved - two days until submission deadline and still loads of content unwritten etc.

Yes I think he should clean and I think it's pretty awful that he just watches you do it on weekends after you're working FT.

I also don't understand why you share the laundry.

I think he either needs to go back to work, at least PT or he is in charge of the house and kids, which is what a SAHM would be expected to do esp with all three kids at school.

Personally I wouldn't find it attractive to have a man around the house who was earning nothing at all but each to their own.

@RunningAtStuff

He’s not a slacker at all. I think it’s just we haven’t found a rhythm of who should do what with all 3 kids at school. The youngest was only in Reception when lockdown hit and then it was home schooling for the best part of a year so he definitely hasn’t been swanning around with loads of leisure time! Maybe it’s just trial and error of how much is achievable now some normality is resuming

I would say that assuming he has 5 hours a day child free, he should be able to manage the cooking, cleaning and washing during that time. 30 minutes to sort out a couple of loads of washing, 30 minutes to do some ironing, 1 hour to clean the bathroom and kitchen, 15 minutes to run the vacuum round, 30 minutes general tidying up. 1 hour break for lunch, then the afternoon to prepare the evening meal. What exactly is he doing to fill up his time?

Judging by the fairly recent thread on here titled 'you're lucky if you don't have to work', a lot of housewives spend their time 'focusing on hobbies' and seeing friends etc.

Perhaps he’s happy to give up paid employment to care for the children but doesn’t want to be the cleaner? @RunningAtStuff Who cleaned when you were at home on maternity leave?

@5zeds

Perhaps he’s happy to give up paid employment to care for the children but doesn’t want to be the cleaner? *@RunningAtStuff* Who cleaned when you were at home on maternity leave?

Relentless care of a newborn during maternity leave is very different to 25 hours alone every week.

I do sometimes wonder if many of the people claiming that being a SAHP is harder have ever actually had a stressful senior management position.

Everyone is different. I have a senior management position. I haven't been a SAHM but I have been on maternity leave. I would 100% find being a SAHM more stressful. I think basically I am better at my job than looking after my children full time.

Well yes but caring for three children at three different schools is fairly different too. It’s immaterial really “what’s harder?”, the question is what does he want to do. OP is looking to add to his workload. He presumably agreed to the set up based on a level of help from others. If it’s going to change then he may want to rethink.

What the hell is going on on this thread?! Dick panders trying to make out like this man is hard done by and that a SAHM would be told to get a cleaner - what rubbish! Time and time again on here I read about SAHMs doing all the housework, and posters telling her that’s how it should be. Suddenly that all changes when it’s a man at home 🙄

Of course he should be cleaning, he’s a SAHD to school age children, why on earth should you work all week and then spend your leisure time doing the cleaning just so that he can have 6 hours free everyday?

Time and time again on here I read about SAHMs doing all the housework, and posters telling her that’s how it should be.
Perhaps there are multiple posters who each have different opinions!

In some households both work and do the cleaning, in others one or both are home at least part-time but they have a cleaner. Those who can afford to have a cleaner don't need to struggle through lack of free time or mess just because that isn't a situation available to everyone.

OP, you need to get a cleaner in. Otherwise this will just drag on as you’ll never be happy with his “standard” of cleaning.

I’ve been a SAHam for many years and always had a cleaner in. Our house is over four floors and it’s a lot. Obviously, I’m still tidying up, doing laundry and keeping in top of stuff in the in between days, but every week the house is done thoroughly as the cleaning lady comes for 8 hours (with breaks obviously)! She doesn’t change the beds though or deal with any laundry as I wouldn’t feel comfortable with that. And the house is always tidy and “ready to clean” when she comes. It helps get into a rhythm, which I think is what you need.

Just because his focus is now the kids, does not suddenly make him the default cleaner! I don’t know why people assume this.

It makes me laugh when people say a SAHP of school kids won't get much time for themselves out of 25 hours when household stuff is done.

How do you think working parents do it? Answer: it does not take 25 hours a week.

I've been at home with a 1 and 3 year old. I managed to get all the cleaning, cooking and life admin done during the day while DH worked, and that was with only the elder one doing mornings at preschool.

I'm now at work 8-4 and still cook the evening meals and DH and I split the daily chores, and I find working far harder than being at home with the kids was.