Moral Dilemma

[freerunner75]

My partner and I have been together 12 years. Both married previously, my marriage ended horrifically, my husband blew a tonne of my savings and left me in £25k debt. My partners marriage was similar, his ex left with an extremely large settlement.

We moved in together to a rented place with a view to buying something together. His marital home was sold to settle the divorce agreement, but he had one other property in his name at the time which he kept and rented out. The house we now live in - was bought at an extremely low rate from family. I had no say in this and was not given the option to be a part of it as he classes it as his 'inheritance' and is protective over the equity given what happened with his divorce. I pay half towards the bills and we have both designed and improved the house since we have been here - i have paid for only soft furnishings and a few bits of furniture as I earn a lot less than him and most of my money goes towards the bills and my kids. The house we live in has tripled in value since we have been here and made improvements.

So, we are not married, no mortgage together, no life insurance for each other, nothing. Together 12 years.

The whole lack of financial security is a big issue to me and has caused us endless arguments over the years. But he won't budge. Recently we had a huge bust up and I was looking into my options but they are few given my current situation and budget limitations.

Am willing to take a bashing on this - however am I being unreasonable to request for him to set aside some money for me in case our relationship does break down irretrievably so that I have a safety net? I was thinking perhaps £1000 per year for every year we have lived together - signed and agreed by both and by a solicitor so we both know where we stand?

I am currently earning more than I have for a while and am starting to be able to save again - but my biggest concern is that if we do finish.. i am out on the streets with nothing to my name despite contributing for years... yet he is sitting pretty. I know it sounds bloody awful, but it would take a lot of stress off me and our relationship and I don't think I am being unreasonable.

But I am expecting to be told that I am..... thoughts please.

Where’s the moral dilemma?

Hmmm I'm torn here.
After 12 years I wouldnt be happy with no form of commitment at all.

What happens if he dies tomorrow? Who gets the house?

Sorry I think you are being unreasonable.
If you want a financial Cushion in the case of separation, then you need to Start putting aside some savings. I can see how it seems ‘unfair’ that he is accumulating money through the house increasing in value, and you aren’t, but that isn’t his fault. You aren’t paying any ‘rent’ so you could be putting the equivalent aside every month.

my biggest concern is that if we do finish.. i am out on the streets with nothing to my name despite contributing for years... yet he is sitting pretty

You've had 12 years of living rent free!

Well, your username is apt - you really do want a free run, don’t you?!

He’s housed you and your two children for free for many years (don’t know when you switched from rented to his owned house, but as it’s tripled in value I’d say it’s been a few years...)

In all that time of a “free run” did you never think to save this £12K restart money yourself? 😳

I’d didn’t get stung in my divorce - but I still wouldn’t agree to this.

Setting aside enough to “start again” - moving costs, deposit, 6 months rent etc would be one proposal. But actually phrasing it as an amount per year you’re together - leaves a bad taste in my mouth. He owes you nothing. Financially, if anything, you owe him. I’m guessing that you’ve been able to pay off / a lot off the debt you had - because he’s housed you and your family.

Life insurance is another matter.
Waste of his money insuring yours, but you only need his permission and him being willing to complete medical form to insure his. Why haven’t you? Because you want a joint policy paid for by him, perhaps?

There’s no moral dilemma here.

@VodselForDinner

Your kids are 18 and 20.

You’re basically housing three adults in return for 50% of household bills.

You’re a fannylodger.

I hope he sees this thread.

Esh. So the kids are basically adults?

Are they studying? Working?

If she’s been paying part of a repayment mortgage then maybe she’s morally entitled to something.

It’s not fair if you don’t earn enough to buy a house. Same as for many people in low income jobs who rent. It’s not his job to fix that. If he’s been subsidising you/your kids for 12 years you’ve had a better opportunity than most to save up.

I don't understand - you split the bills and he owns the house outright? So you benefit from the relationship by living somewhere rent free?
Why wouldn't you just save the money you'd otherwise be spending on rent/mortgage payments if you were single, and then that money is a house deposit should you need it. Invest the savings and you're building up a pension.

You have to get a nest and feather it. Your own nest.
If you're paying his bills how can you afford to do that.

I'd put it to him that you can no longer afford to be the one who didn't learn from their mistake. He learned! He has had you subsidising his living expenses and you have nothing to show for the last 12 years.

Oh and I know it’s not the point of the thread...

But can we just fuck off with the “ex got a huge settlement and he got burned” narrative?

The courts actually don’t just take a man’s every last penny for the bitch ex wife you know. That’s misogynistic crap.

After his divorce, he still had the rental property - so it doesn’t sound like he was left in penury. I expect that if his ex got a large amount it was because (a) there was a lot to share and (b) it was her legal entitlement.

@SelkieFly she’s hardly been subsidising his living expenses 🤣 quite the opposite!

@VodselForDinner

Your kids are 18 and 20.

You’re basically housing three adults in return for 50% of household bills.

You’re a fannylodger.

I hope he sees this thread.

This.

It does seem incredible that you and your adult kids are living rent free (do they contribute?) and you're complaining.

This should have all been sorted out 12 years ago before you moved in, but too late for that. I would just set aside money every month into a savings account incase you split up.

The house we live in has tripled in value since we have been here

If you haven't contributed to the payment of the house, you have no claim over this surely?

I think looking at what you chose to do historically - moving into a house you weren’t co-owner, buying soft furnishings, etc. isn’t something you can reasonably expect him, now, to rectify. Hit sounds like he was clear about wanting to ensure your financial situations were separate and you didn’t have a claim on his property and you went along with that. Just because the house has done well over time doesn’t mean you should get to second guess his arrangements and your decisions. If there had been a housing crash I doubt you’d be suggesting you make up some of his losses.

What situation would you be in if you weren’t living with him?

Would you have bought/rented somewhere, maybe less expensive, live a less affluent lifestyle and put money away? Or would you have been just getting by without the free accommodation and maybe still paying off all that debt? If the former I think you have a good case for paying less towards bills and putting more of your money into investments. And you should be thinking hard about how you can arrange your life so you do put money aside, even if it means the two of you can’t live the life you have been. I think you’re right to be concerned, you should have been concerned 12 years ago when you agreed to move in with him - it isn’t his responsibility to ensure you’re alright here, it’s yours.

The above doesn’t apply if you have kids with him and have downgraded your work capacity (with his agreement or in the wake of him refusing to do a fair share of child care) to look after them.

In July 2019 OP said they had been together 11 years and only lived together for 6 yrs.

There's a lot of detail in that thread about their financial arrangements.

Do you work fulltime? How much are you saving a month?

He’s housing you and your kids and lying towards half your your expenditure.

And now you want £1,000 a year of your relationship from him.

Why on earth would he give you money? He’s already housing you and your children and financially maintaining you all.

Get a better job, and get your own house. Why on earth would he give you anything more than he already is?

No marriage, no children, you just contribute towards the bills. Think about all the money you saved on rent. He doesn't owe you anything

Your on a good thing you've lived rent free made a few random contributions then want a chunk of his empire.
It's not his faulty you arrived at the table with nothing your complelty taking the piss .

You’ve not paid rent or a mortgage for 12 years and you want him to promise to give you money if you leave him?!

Thanks for the laugh OP.

Ok, I've just looked through your previous threads.

So in 2019 it sounds like you were putting £600 per month into the joint account for bills etc.

If you were housing your DC alone you'd be paying double that: rent, council tax, utilities, food etc.

So your DP is indeed subsidising you.

Your DP doesn't want to get married or put you on the mortgage as he was financially burned by his last marriage. Fair enough - if he was a woman everyone would be telling him he's doing the right thing.

I think your choices are either to leave him and go it alone, get a mortgage alone so that you are paying into something and have some ownership.

Or accept your precarious position as it is - that you have no ownership (which is fair as you didn't pay towards the purchase for the property you live in) and think yourself lucky that you have been subsidised for many years, as your outgoings would be far higher if you had to house yourself and your DC alone.

Tricky one.

Just seen the link lljkk posted.

Stop working in his business for free, he either pays you, or you get a job that sees you in a better financial position.

Why would you put in unpaid hard graft for a business that’s not yours and doesn’t give you any financial remuneration?

Get a better paid job, and start building up your finances properly.

Couple of things:
If you have bought soft furnishing and furniture only then you have no contributed to the rise in value of the house.
If he bought it cheap from a relative then in my view it is akin to an inheritance and should be protected.
Does half the bills include the mortgage payment? I don’t think you should contribute to this. If not the split seems quite fair. Especially if the children are not his.
You should focus on building up some savings of your own and maximising your earning potential. I am willing to bet that whatever you pay in bills now is less than you would pay in rent / bills if you were single

Unfortunately OP you’ve had your chance to get separate financial security and he’d be daft to sign to give you money when you’ve been living rent free. You could have been putting your share of the mortgage aside to buy your own property or invested it. You’ve had a very good deal from your other thread.

How are you planning to buy a property together if you have no savings?

Sounds like you've had it pretty sweet living rent free for 12 years, to demand £12k on top of that, I nearly spat my coffee out! 😂😂😂

You are being very unreasonable selfish and greedy!