Moral Dilemma

[freerunner75]

My partner and I have been together 12 years. Both married previously, my marriage ended horrifically, my husband blew a tonne of my savings and left me in £25k debt. My partners marriage was similar, his ex left with an extremely large settlement.

We moved in together to a rented place with a view to buying something together. His marital home was sold to settle the divorce agreement, but he had one other property in his name at the time which he kept and rented out. The house we now live in - was bought at an extremely low rate from family. I had no say in this and was not given the option to be a part of it as he classes it as his 'inheritance' and is protective over the equity given what happened with his divorce. I pay half towards the bills and we have both designed and improved the house since we have been here - i have paid for only soft furnishings and a few bits of furniture as I earn a lot less than him and most of my money goes towards the bills and my kids. The house we live in has tripled in value since we have been here and made improvements.

So, we are not married, no mortgage together, no life insurance for each other, nothing. Together 12 years.

The whole lack of financial security is a big issue to me and has caused us endless arguments over the years. But he won't budge. Recently we had a huge bust up and I was looking into my options but they are few given my current situation and budget limitations.

Am willing to take a bashing on this - however am I being unreasonable to request for him to set aside some money for me in case our relationship does break down irretrievably so that I have a safety net? I was thinking perhaps £1000 per year for every year we have lived together - signed and agreed by both and by a solicitor so we both know where we stand?

I am currently earning more than I have for a while and am starting to be able to save again - but my biggest concern is that if we do finish.. i am out on the streets with nothing to my name despite contributing for years... yet he is sitting pretty. I know it sounds bloody awful, but it would take a lot of stress off me and our relationship and I don't think I am being unreasonable.

But I am expecting to be told that I am..... thoughts please.

[TheLastLotus]

@freerunner75 well done!

[Newestname001]

OP are there likely to be any advancement/promotion possibilities at work which could bring in extra cash - which would go into your own savings pot to put towards your own property or just an emergency fund if it becomes necessary?

Also I'd be encouraging your eldest child to try and find work independent from your partner if at all possible, as that would make life easier if, in the future, you did split. 🌹

[NoSquirrels]

That’s a good plan, freerunner - a small flat of your own to rent to your DS sounds great. Be aware you won’t get a BTL mortgage if you’re renting to family but that’s probably not an issue if you are getting a residential mortgage in your name. Do your research but crucially make sure you’re getting paid for your labour.

[Rmka]

@freerunner75, I'm glad you have a plan now and agreed it with your partner. Best of luck

[Luddite26]

Good luck. Stick to your guns. It's harsh when you put your trust into someone. I really hope things work out.

[WaterBottle123]

@freerunner75

That's a great plan!

My mum finally made it onto the housing ladder 9 years after the ex kicked her out....

[freerunner75]

@WaterBottle123 Wow! Thank you for adding that perspective... I hadn't really considered it from my children's point of view to that extent. That's a proper kick up the arse for me ! :-)

Following everyone's kind - and not so kind input on here - all of which I value as that's what this forum is all about - I have now put a plan in place. I have told my partner he is to pay me for all the work I do and that is going straight into a savings pot - approx £400 per month so thats a good start! (All tax declared don't panic! ha) I was just starting to be able to save anyway so I will knuckle down with that and add this new stream in as well so that I can grow a nest egg. I have also considered to buy a little flat when I have enough - that my son can rent from me as he is looking to move on in a year or so.. so that is my plan.

I feel better at least knowing a plan is in place. I can't change the past 12 years, but I can change the coming years. What will be will be, but at least I will (hopefully) be a little more prepared!

Thank you to everyone for all your comments. You are a lovely bunch!

[WaterBottle123]

@freerunner75

My mum had this exact situation. Lived with her partner for 10 years, in a house he'd more or less inherited. Pay half it's very expensive running costs and was out of pocket, especially given she had no dependent kids living there (he did). Put her heart and soul into refurb.

One day the man's 'first love' got back in touch and within weeks he'd kicked my mum out. She was basically penniless and homeless. My sister managed to find her somewhere vaguely affordable to rent. It was an absolute nightmare and we were so frustrated she hadn't bothered to build her own security and had just trusted this man.

You need to work on your own separate financial security as a matter of urgency,

[Bythemillpond]

I think op was managing perfectly well on her own before the dp moved in. It has cost her a lot of money to move into his house. From my understanding the bills are bigger and her benefits dropped because of the circumstances

Would the partner be in such a great position if left on his own and being responsible for all of the bills as well. I don’t think that the reduction in bills would be all that significant overall

[Newkitchen123]

You could look at it the other way round as well though, op would be responsible for all the bills if they weren't living with the partner.
I'm on a water meter, there would be a big difference between 1 person and 4 people living in the property! Electric and gas would depend on who is at home during the day.
Council tax the partner would be paying 75 % if he was on his own due to sole occupancy discount. OP would be paying full council tax in another property as her kids are grown up so not sole occupancy.

[Bythemillpond]

Newkitchen123

But if op and her dc moved out the bills wouldn’t go down by 75%

Council tax would only reduce by 50%
Gas and electrics would still be pretty similar. Maybe a little less on baths or showers and boiling the kettle.
Even water rates would stay the same.
Mine is the same if I have one person in the house or 4 or 16
Same with insurance, telephone and Internet A lot of bills are per household not per person.

I think 75% is a lot given the money op has had to give up. She would have probably been better off staying put than moving into a house she doesn’t own.

The biggest question is if her children leave the house will the bills she is responsible for go down by 25% after each child leaves or will she continue to pay out the higher amount

[Newkitchen123]

@bythemillpond she is paying 75% of the bills because she is paying for her two grown up children as well. Her partner is paying the 25% because he's only paying his part of the bills. On top of this, he pays the mortgage, by himself, so yes, she is living rent free

[Sarahsteedman]

@neveradullmoment99

Oh yes and stop paying 75% of the outgoings.
He is definitely taking the piss.

She isn't paying 75% though is she as he pays the mortgage and there are 4 adults in the house 3 of whom are her and her two grown up kids

[UpTheJunktion]

But how is it fair that if we were married, and we divorced I could technically (if I wanted to) claim x amount of pounds and walk away, yet as we are not.. I can’t. Despite for the most part.. being in exactly the same relationship

To me, much of the fairness of splitting marital assets is to do with recognising the contribution of raising shared and / or joint children.

It sounds as if you have had your children in the home, so fair enough to pay higher bills. Why should he support your kids?

I do sympathise with your feelings of financial insecurity OP, and that is partly because in your DP’s position I would be wanting to protect my own security.

The time to have taken action was when he bought the house from the relative. To have started your own savings then, or whatever.

It doesn’t sound as if you have lived a to-the-bone lifestyle: I wouldn’t be buying and running cars for my offspring when I had so little security of my own.

How did you manage to pay off £25k of debt, pay rent and bills and be a single parent when you were in a lower income and yet since you moved in with your DP have not managed to make substantial savings?

Do your children still live in the house? Do they contribute to the bills to take pressure off you?

It does seem that when your DP took the opportunity to buy the house he prioritised his own security rather than throwing in his lot with you which would have made it possible for you to get a shared mortgage.

I’m not sure you can hold him responsible for your response to that.

How far do grown adults with no shared children owe each other in terms of financial support?

How far would you expect love and care to cover making someone financially secure, even to the detriment of your own kids?

Both equally valid questions.

Only you can know which is more important to you.

[Bythemillpond]

Nrtft bit of you are paying over £600 (75%) towards the bills and he earns more than you and us only paying the mortgage (which will stop at some point) and only 25% of the bills then you are hardly living rent free.
Especially if you have list your extra income (and freedom) when he moved in and also you have had to relocate because of this “gift” of a house which you are paying towards but will have no stake in.

If you are quite happy with the relationship I would carry on for now but stop yourself from buying anything for the house. Really reassess how much you can stash away . Look at buying yourself a really cheap flat or house and start to grow a rental portfolio and other investments that will cushion you in years to come if the relationship breaks down.
I would give up trying to get married. Unfortunately I think the gift of the house to him was a poisoned chalice in that I think you could have been happily married in your own home and been together forever.
Now I think there is that cloud that both of you are just out for what you can get out of the other
How many years to go on the mortgage as I think that is the longevity of your relationship. I think as soon as the mortgage is paid off he will have no need for you. He might keep you around to pay all the bills but as soon as you start to question why you are the one paying out the most and he is only paying a fraction of the bills then I think it will all fall apart.
An alternative is if you do start to carve a life that he can see doesnt leave you destitute and dependant on him is that he will want to marry you as he can see you could end up walking away from him.

I wouldn’t tell him anything just quietly work at saving as much money as you can and investing it in a property that if worse comes to the worse at least you will have a roof over your head

[Cloglover]

Hope you're OK @freerunner75 and that the constructive responses have helped. People love being judgemental, but it's very easy when you are busy with kids to take your eye off the ball and twelve years to be gone just like that, especially if you are getting over a previous traumatic relationship. The important thing is that you put together some kind of plan and do something now you are clear headed.

The situation you have found yourself in, is totally understandable. Don't feel like you have egg on your face, just use this experience to propel yourself forward. Good luck. X

[BeenAsFarAsMercyAndGrand]

I hope several people have already strongly suggested that you gather all the evidence you have of what money you have put into the fabric of the building

I'm pretty sure the OP has said this is £0. She hasn't put any money into the renovations. Soft furnishings don't count.

[mobear]

@freerunner75 Prenups aren’t enforceable in the UK. He has no other way to protect his assets other than not marrying you.

[MayIDestroyYou]

OP I have not read the full thread - as it's unlikely that many of the people responding have actually practised this area of law or taken such a case to court.

I hope several people have already strongly suggested that you gather all the evidence you have of what money you have put into the fabric of the building, and how other financial commitments have been split - and take yourself to see a solicitor. It is not necessarily as black and white as "if this, then that". Though I'd imagine the existence of Civil Partnerships does slightly weaken the position of anyone living outside even that legal structure.

It's important that you know where you stand. Get proper legal advice.

[Darlingx]

Yes they are grown children I think this is why she can now focus on her future and where she invests her time and money . She is not so much catering for a family home although I am sure they still need a mother and her to have a roof over her head. I think this is her best chance to really focus on what she needs to do for her future 🤗

[Darlingx]

Luddite26
Your are so right . Givers and takers and how we value ourselves within relationships. I really hope that women can believe in themselves enough to invest fully in themselves . I think this is hard when your biology is to literally carry the burden in physical form and to be the soul source of food to that life at it’s most vulnerable state. To nuture whether you have children or not is hardwired in and it can be manipulated add to this low self worth from a previous bad relationship and looking at the relationship historically towards women in our social structures we are still trying to get on an even footing! The pay gap, The pension gap the fact women are often in service roles which are undervalued or have to work part time around childcare . I only found out yesterday my friend’s brother retired at 50. He lived with his mother into his forties met a younger woman so now getting married. How did he retire so young. By living with his mother he had a housekeeper , a cook , cleaner all in the form of his mother living on site so he could focus on his career and that earning potential. His mother would have gladly fufilled this role without a man in her life given her generation and he could tell people he was looking after his mother by putting a roof over her head. Maybe it was even her house who knows but she took the invisible unvalued domestic load so he could make the money to retire young. He at 50 marrying a younger partner can still start a family. Can u imagine this possibilty for a woman . I don’t think a mother would enjoy keeping house for a daughter in quite the same way and for a daughter she would not be seen in quite the same way. I think this womans work in the home is still brainwashing our perceptions of where assets and value lays . Covid was supposed to highlight all of this but we are falling back into the tropes . Also being made to feel at the mercy of whether someone decides to marry you and all your future asset being bound in that. Once a man is getting the perks he has no incentive to commit. Lack of commitment has put women’s fertile years on hold or their possibility to get on the housing ladder and this try before you buy relationships with zero commitment just leads women up the garden path with dreams of marriage and babies as a future premise. I would like women to believe in themselves outside of all those landmarks in their lives that they are not defined by that alone.

[Cocomarine]

@Darlingx the children are already grown, earning, adults.

[Darlingx]

A woman with children is in a weakened position for being a care provider. A working mother raising children and helping her partner of 12 yrs for free in his business and home . That home was conceived with the plan of a family unit her expectation of promised marriage was valid they have been together 6 yrs . His cynical set up was not consulted with their plans he just bought the property cheap off family and already has an inherited property in his name. He based on previous experience of being taken to the cleaners and has punished this partner for his ex . She has had no contribution from her ex which is why the state had to step in. She has a paid job and works for free in her partner’s business as well as running his household for him. She has quite rightly realised what a weakened position she has been manipulated into with the promise of a home and marriage that never followed through as in terms of on paper. She has finally come to terms with this now having taken stock with the children being more grown up . Her job of providing a family nest which she has excelled despite her ex shouldering her with debts . worked to pay those off. A family home is less relevant now its more about her future nest egg and where her working salary is invested . She resents that he manipulated to profit from her running the domestic load even helping his business that his children will most likely inherit. Thankfully she has raised her family with pets and a beautiful home.which she worked to make beautiful . There is nothing to be regretted just build a more secure future with yourself at the centre of it now. Don’t let the non marital status make u feel devalued.It does not reflect your value as a partner. You shouldn’t have felt the need to validate yourself because its not try before you buy. You are in a much stronger position now it’s quite vulnerable raising children and very easy to get caught up in that .Life can trip any of us up. Money is only of value when it’s converted into something that has meaning to the person. The man’s children will get their inheritance but will he continue to have a wife who cares for him into old age? oh wait he didn’t marry her. Why should she continue to behave as his wife if the contract is null. He is losing out again in a funny way because now she will be building a future independently as he was afraid to be invested in case history repeated itself . I honestly feel once the children are earning adults she will be in a much stronger position. Those children have grown up with a mother who worked very hard to provide and she did it for them . The ex and this current man have manipulated her love for them. The children will love her this is the relationship that really counted because they are where she made her best investment She just needs to position her earnings into her future now. It is not too late to believe and invest in yourself and your family’s future whether it has this partner or none. You are an asset worth investing in and I would say this to any woman . BELIEVE IN YOURSELF 🥰 you were and are the knight in shining armour! If in doubt don’t invest in the man because that has been the pretext we are trying to escape from xxx women’s salaries weren’t even taken into consideration not so long ago in terms of mortgages .why do u think the cost of housing has exploded.

[Newkitchen123]

Have i understood this correctly? Before you lived with him you had your rent paid via benefits. Now you live together you're not entitled to that. You pay your share of the bills and support your kids. You're just getting to the point where you can start saving.
If I've understood correctly then where is your money coming from to contribute to a mortgage even if he would let you?

[NoSquirrels]

If we were both at that point on the mortgage together and paid towards the mortgage together after a legal agreement was drawn up protecting all of his equity/investment be that. From that point forward the property would be joint. And any equity if we were to sell/split would then be apportioned after his investment/inheritance at point of his purchase.. was taken out. Does that make sense?

Yes, perfect sense.
But as you haven’t paid towards the mortgage - despite your other financial contributions this has always been clear-cut - then it’s not the same, is it?

It’s not unfair- because it’s not a hidden disadvantage. You weren’t tricked.

What you do now is the thing.