To think we won't see a Labour Government again for many years?

[Rosehip10]

Even discounting the changes in the ex-industrial former "red-wall" seats, no Labour leader has ever become Prime Minister without winning at least half the seats in Scotland. Even if Scotland does not vote for independence in the next few years, Labour is never going to recover there. If independence comes then it is academic anyway.

Combine that with the changes in the former Labour seats in the north (which I think will only continue) then a Government cannot be formed of London MPs, a few larger cities and some seats in university towns/cities.

I don't think Starmer is the most charismatic leader but I think any ppolitican would struggle to solve this. Very hard to try and appeal to ex-industrial seats AND young, metropolitan, middle class voters in London etc.

One of the best comments I saw yesterday was Labour trying to make traction of the conservatives being corrupt and stuffing money into places that voted for them, was people thinking "well all politicians are corrupt anyway, so we may as well vote for Boris to get some of that too!"

@the80sweregreat

I heard JC on bbc radio two today saying ' labour's policies were ok ' .. if so, why are they being rejected all the time?

He always said he had great policies. Just that people weren't listening. I was listening. That's why I didn't vote for them.

I have no idea of current labour policies frankly. I will read more close to the next election. For local stuff, i am more concerned with the candidate and how the local party has performed.

There's a lot of under 35's out there who feel incredibly let down by the Tories, eventually they (and their children) will be a majority, so who knows.

I think if there is a housing market crash people will vote differently, but that doesn't look like it's happening soon.

I agree. My ds Millenniall and his friends hate Boris and co. So does my Gen z

And my DS, nearly 22, voted for Brexit. One vote cancelled another. But before you write us off as racist thugs, DS is a woke art student at a university. You don't have to think racist thuggish thoughts to understand that uncontrolled migration of single men from eastern Europe reduced the minimum wage to the going rate for the job. In an area without many economic migrants, I can tell you that the going rate for a cleaner is £12.50. It's £15.00 an hour for gardening. And if you want a competent joiner or builder, you can expect to pay £160 - £180 per day. In Cornwall.

You all talk of Blair and what happened last century, also that millennials and gen z don't like tories etc etc. Young people moan but DON'T vote in numbers. 45+ are your voters. If you are ever going to win an election you need to "get them". They are the ones paying high rent/mortgages, seeing ever increasing utility/train/food bills, the ones having to help their 20 something children more and more even when they can't afford it. You can not make ANY change unless you are in Government, you can not get into Government without getting the votes first, fact. Labour needs to stop trying nto be idealistic and start being more of a realistic party

@StopTryingToSellMeYourBollocks, do you and your family have a trade or skills to sell? If you do, then please read my previous post about wage rates in Cornwall. People are crying out for reliable competent tradespeople. Reliable competent people can buy property (my cleaner just has) but they may have to live with hand me downs and do work to get the house to what they want.

Hmm, Kettledodger Our 18 and 26 year olds were very keen to vote in the local/council/PCC election, they’re not at all unusual in their groups, some are party members already. Youngest can’t wait for his first GE.
My elderly parents and in-laws didn’t bother, neither did our MIL and most of her elderly friends, no-one sparked their interest enough. They’re all comfortable, own houses, fixed incomes. Only possible influence would be nhs and they - really! - think it’s in safe hands 🤷‍♀️

No skills, no training and a casually entitled attitude will keep a person on NMW forever.

Anecdotal "my children and their friends" is not the majority though is it. Under 35s are the least likely to vote and has been this way for a very long time Go look at figures I am not talking out of my arse

Blimey, Kettledodger: I didn’t suggest that you were talking out of your arse! No need to be so aggressive.

Anecdotal, absolutely. Not unique though.

And perhaps the party wouldn’t be in the mess it is now if hundreds of thousands of youngsters hadn’t joined up to vote for Corbyn.

Sorry if you found my in my mind a fairly normal response aggressive wasn't meant to be

Good, they'll have to wait a while until there is a pot of money left to splurge on the economy and plunge the country into near bankruptcy again. I never believed my late Grandad's theory until i saw it with my own eyes!

No pot of money left after the tory splurge

The Torys have never been voted out until there is a pot of money to spend, Labour left the note last time, and they always say many a true word is said in jest.
Your Granddad was right and we told people this about 5 years ago.
No matter how much you hate Boris your stuck with him.

www.spiked-online.com/2021/05/07/the-working-class-revolt-against-labour/

'The voters have let us down.' said by Labour council leader, Chris Emmas-Williams, lost his seat.

www.spiked-online.com/2021/05/10/labour-the-voters-let-us-down/

So are white middle aged males who live in northern towns the only working class people who count?

What about all those cleaners and transport workers who live in London, who may be called Metropolitan, but certainly don't have the wealthy lifestyles caricatured. What about Black people who live in London for whom black lives will almost certainly matter. Are they allowed to identify as working class? Or have you got to have a father and grandfather who was a miner or a steel worker?

'The voters have let us down.' said by Labour council leader, Chris Emmas-Williams, lost his seat.

What an absolute tool.

@Kettledodger

You all talk of Blair and what happened last century, also that millennials and gen z don't like tories etc etc. Young people moan but DON'T vote in numbers. 45+ are your voters. If you are ever going to win an election you need to "get them". They are the ones paying high rent/mortgages, seeing ever increasing utility/train/food bills, the ones having to help their 20 something children more and more even when they can't afford it. You can not make ANY change unless you are in Government, you can not get into Government without getting the votes first, fact. Labour needs to stop trying nto be idealistic and start being more of a realistic party

If over 45 vote in bigger numbers there will be an even bigger Tory landslide. Labour need to get under 40s voting if they are going to have any chance of getting elected.

And there, in "the voters let us down", is everything we need to know about too many politicians - and that goes for all parties

I'd mention that they're there to serve us rather than it being the other way round, but I wouldn't bother mentioning it to the politicians thmselves ... because they lack both integrity and the concept

It’s amazing with the amount of waste Boris and the tories burn through as well as added burdens and bureaucracy put on business that people still say they’re prudent with money.

Imagine the outrage if labour wasted £37 billion of tax payers money on a failure like test and trace you’d never hear the end of it. What is the equivalent to it from a labour government? Or does it get a pass because of covid, despite the fact other countries like Germany had a cheaper and successful app?

Also if you’re giving the tories a pass for all ill managed spending during covid then the GLOBAL financial crisis should surely factor into economic issues with the last labour government.

@Undeuxdrei

No pot of money left after the tory splurge

Exactly this. The irony of talking about Labour splurges after the drunken sailor spending spree of the last year.

NinaMimi I agree completely about the money the Tories have wasted, even where cronies weren't involved, but there's this since you asked about Labour waste: www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-s-computer-blunders-cost-163-26bn-1871967.html

Apparently just the failed NHS IT scheme was responsible for £13 billion of it ...

@Rosehip10

Even discounting the changes in the ex-industrial former "red-wall" seats, no Labour leader has ever become Prime Minister without winning at least half the seats in Scotland. Even if Scotland does not vote for independence in the next few years, Labour is never going to recover there. If independence comes then it is academic anyway.

Combine that with the changes in the former Labour seats in the north (which I think will only continue) then a Government cannot be formed of London MPs, a few larger cities and some seats in university towns/cities.

I don't think Starmer is the most charismatic leader but I think any ppolitican would struggle to solve this. Very hard to try and appeal to ex-industrial seats AND young, metropolitan, middle class voters in London etc.

One of the best comments I saw yesterday was Labour trying to make traction of the conservatives being corrupt and stuffing money into places that voted for them, was people thinking "well all politicians are corrupt anyway, so we may as well vote for Boris to get some of that too!"

Labour needs to concentrate on being an effective opposition; which any functioning democracy needs. Forget government - that isn't going to be something that could be entertained for many years. The Tories will run out of steam eventually and people will want a change but realistically the only way that will happen is by them forming a coalition of parties that they can work with.

Imagine the outrage if labour wasted £37 billion of tax payers money on a failure like test and trace you’d never hear the end of it.

It's not like we are hearing the end of it now either, is it?