I love but dislike my own child

[Bslhbwie]

I've name changed for this because I'm so ashamed. Can anyone relate to this and tell me it gets better or give me any advice on how to make it better?
Background.... I have two kids. Eldest is a boy age 10. Youngest a girl age 7. Husband and I are married, we are both nearly 40. Have a lovely life and lovely home.
My son has been a very difficult child since day one really. He is very intense. Pretty hyper. He has a lot of attention seeking behaviour at home, with extended family and also at school.
In the past every teacher has had to speak to me almost daily about him shouting out and being distracting /distracted in class. He is a class clown type of child. (never been naughty). He gets on the other children's nerves and struggles socially. Everything has to be his way, and about him. Hes not interested in other peoples likes or feeling , and doesn't show much empathy. His whole school experience so far has been a nightmare for me until this past year where he's had a lovely teacher mixed with him getting older and maturing and hes just had a wonderful report for the first time. But I know it won't last. School pushed me to get him assessed as they were thinking adhd/autism. He went through cahms and was observed in school etc and they discharged him saying no issues, just anxious, which was a shock to us as he comes across as a very confident loud person, but once we discussed all this and he had some counselling we could see this was an act he puts on.
Anyway, my husband and I are quiet people, introverted really. Our daughter is the same. Whereas our son is very extraverted, loves being around people and being the centre of attention. Basically the opposite to us. We have nothing in common at all. Because we are together alot, especially this last year with covid, the impact of the way he acts is causing a lot of negative feelings in our family that I find very upsetting. We treat both of our children equally and we shower them both with love and affection but it's difficult sometimes.
Today is our daughters birthday. He has spent alot of the time trying to get the attention away from her and on to him and it just causes such negative feeling towards him. I sometimes wish that he would just go away a bit and give us a break from the intensity and allow our daughter to have some attention on her for once. (feel terrible saying that).
As time has gone on my husband says that he finds him very difficult to be around, mentally draining and just plain irritating. Every holiday or day out we go on or family gathering etc is dominated by his loudness, attitude, constant talking, interrupting, impulsive silliness etc.
I feel so awful that my husband feels this way that I try to overcompensate with love for my son because I feel sorry for him that he has these struggles and comes across to people in this way. But I'm starting to feel the same way. I get so frustrated with how he is sometimes and wish he was easier to be around. Other children tell me he irritates them. Friends and family comment to me about his unusual personality. Teachers always commenting how he never shuts up. I worry what his adult life will be like.
Can anyone advise me how to make our family a happier unit as I feel like it's him against us and I don't want it to be like that. I genuinely think that if we didn't have our daughter who my husband idolises he would have left us because every argument we have is about our son

@IdblowJonSnow I think my husband struggles to accept it and also grieves in a way for the son that he thought he would have. He was so excited when I was pregnant with a son, had so many plans to do with him. And now such sadness that they have so little in common.
Hes out at work for long hours in a stressful job and then his evenings and weekends are an intense mix of meltdowns, noise, etc and I think he finds it difficult that he doesn't get any down time

Some of the judgemental posters on this thread are reminding me of the opprobrium heaped on dog owners who post because they are struggling with much wanted pets with behavioral difficulties. Owners who say they love their dog but are struggling to cope despite trying everything are lectured about not being fit to own a pet and how they should hand them over to someone who will love them properly. I always end up judging the posters who have so little empathy not the struggling dog owner.
And before anyone misinterprets anything I've said, i am not comparing any children with pets.

[quote Bslhbwie]@IdblowJonSnow I think my husband struggles to accept it and also grieves in a way for the son that he thought he would have. He was so excited when I was pregnant with a son, had so many plans to do with him. And now such sadness that they have so little in common.
Hes out at work for long hours in a stressful job and then his evenings and weekends are an intense mix of meltdowns, noise, etc and I think he finds it difficult that he doesn't get any down time[/quote]
This is understandable and natural.
My Mum and I have very little in common and we have very different personalities/ interests. I guess we both ‘missed out’ in that way.
Encourage your DH to find small things that bond them together. From eating the same food to playing a card game. Even just taking an interest in what your DS likes is good. Let him ramble on about his stuff and just listen.
It’s hard OP but you sound like a kind person.

You are introverts , and he isn't. So he hasn't really had a similar adult as role model .
So you might want to consider that , just as you and DH struggle to understand and accommodate DS; it's just as hard for him. As , he's going it alone in uncharted waters with no map. Pretty tough for a 10 yr old.

 But there is a ray of positive light.    He found a teacher who gets him, and with that person he was able to  change and adjust.  IN your shoes I would be mining that teacher  for their observations, assessment,  advice and   help. I  would seriously consider  approaching that teacher and offering  to pay them for  their professional consult  with you and DH (out of school).

 Another option  you might consider, is boarding school  during his teens.  Smaller classes, very organised social life,   Even just weekly boarding  might be as much a relief for him as for you.

@Confusedandshaken

I am a psychotherapist (retired) who worked primarily with couples and young people. I would often see family dynamics like this. I would get couples telling me their marriage and home life would be great if it wasn't for X child. I'd see young people who were blamed for all the family ills and I'd see the child who had the burden of being the golden, peacemaker child of the family.

I never saw a situation like this where, looking in from the outside, the 'problem' child seemed to be in any way to blame. Generally speaking the problems in the family came from situations that existed before they had even been born but something about them made it easy for them to be scapegoated. In your son's case his demanding behaviour seems to be that issue.

I would strongly recommend that you look at family therapy or if that's not available some couples therapy for you and your DH.

Listen to @Confusedandshaken. I was a child in a complicated family dynamic. Family therapy gave us a way to communicate with one another.

When was he last assessed? He can be assessed again if it's been awhile.

Honestly I think it gets to a point where you just see the issues and not the child. We had that with my eldest, it was so hard and we got in such a negative cycle. A bit like confirmation bias where you see your child as loud and boisterous so everything you see confirms that and your daughter as well behaved and that's all you see.

It sounds like he has ADHD. People have suggested asking school to reevaluate or if you can, pay privately. I'd also suggest taking a step back and perhaps making games where you find positives about each other, or just write them down somewhere and share them with him.

He's different from you but that's not a bad thing, there is a family on YouTube I think who the husband is ADHD and he shares in song the good and bad, because there is a lot of good in those traits too, they think differently, they have energy, they react impulsively which can be positive things, see that.

@Bslhbwie

He was assessed through cahms and seen by an educational psychologist and observed in school. He is a perfect child in the meetings etc and has full control over his behavior so they said he can't have adhd or asd because it would be in all situations. Wouldn't help us further. We then arranged him to see a child mental health therapist without us there for 6 weeks and again no use at all apart from confirming its anxiety. They said to us he's a very mature young man, who comes across as very sensible and controlled. Nothing like at home or at school. Then because he's had a better year at school with this teacher and all of the covid stuff the sen at school hasn't spoken to us in coming up to 2 years (he's on the sen register)

Have you ever considered what it's like for him? If he can control his behaviour in certain situations in sounds like his behaviour is a result of external factors.

For him, he lives with 3 quiet introverts and has no one like him. He probably feels like he doesn't get attention because his needs are different. And then he acts out in school.

He can pick up on annoyance, or people asking him to be quiet, or not letting him finish a sentence, etc. The more he gets rejected the more this behaviour probably intensifies.

Does he have ways to express himself? Art, sport, classes? Maybe you could try exercises where you take turns at the table to talk about your day and there's no interrupting allowed. And redirect his behaviour, tell him it's important to listen, etc.

OP what's your financial situation? (Not RTFT sorry)

My advice would be to see a sensory integrated occupational therapist for a full assessment. Private. ASAP

YOU are paying for the therapy so YOU get to say what you're happy discussing in front of your child or not. Take your DH / another relative to look after him in another room while you chat.

Your DH really, REALLY needs to dig deep find a way to connect with the son he has. Can he go on a parenting course?

Look up ADHD / autism support groups in your area and join them. You usually don't need a diagnosis.

“Your parents were responsible for bringing him up, and let him run riot over you because they had not got the mental or emotional resources to bring up the child that they had.”

And bullshit post of the thread award goes to the aptly named ‘crazy neighbour’.

If he can control his behaviour in certain situations in sounds like his behaviour is a result of external factors.

@sunflowers095 sorry but that's utter BS. (Agree with the sentiment of the rest of your post though)

Loads of children mask.

@Confusedandshaken

I am a psychotherapist (retired) who worked primarily with couples and young people. I would often see family dynamics like this. I would get couples telling me their marriage and home life would be great if it wasn't for X child. I'd see young people who were blamed for all the family ills and I'd see the child who had the burden of being the golden, peacemaker child of the family.

I never saw a situation like this where, looking in from the outside, the 'problem' child seemed to be in any way to blame. Generally speaking the problems in the family came from situations that existed before they had even been born but something about them made it easy for them to be scapegoated. In your son's case his demanding behaviour seems to be that issue.

I would strongly recommend that you look at family therapy or if that's not available some couples therapy for you and your DH.

I'm surprised an experienced psychotherapist would choose to make this point on a thread where the op is so patently struggling. I've no doubt what you say is often the case, but the problem with this blanket perspective is that it is very judgemental towards parents who are often doing their very best in difficult circumstances. Mothers in particular often come in for a lot of blame because fathers are generally more detached or absent which can be deeply unfair. But that last point is for another thread.

This perspective also does not acknowledge, and is dismissive of, the very real challenges and strain that can be put on an otherwise strong marriage by a child with educational and emotional challenges.

And before you say "it's not about blame" Confusedandshaken you mentioned the word first, so apparently it is.

Op, family therapy might be a good solution, but you can see from this post what you may be up against from professionals who claim to be non-judgemental.

No one understands how hard it is to live with a child whose behaviour is challenging , day in or day out, unless they have been through it themselves . I have a teenage daughter who is being assessed for ASD. She is very emotionally up and down and after this year, is quite angry and anxious too. The point is she is is able to mask at school and in meetings with teachers but takes her frustration out on us when she gets home. It's only us who gets to see the real upset. We love her beyond words but I feel emotionally drained and hollowed out and her behaviour has only really been challenging for the past three years, although there were hints before, so heaven knows how you are coping. From all of your updates you sound like excellent parents really going through the mill. I hope you can get the non-judgemental help you need.

Good luck to you

And apparently the DB's own children are also now responsible too

There’s a lot of harsh responses on here, OP.

I have no advice, but wanted to come on to say you could be describing my family when I was growing up. Your son sounds exactly like my brother.

Someone like that is exhausting to be around. And while your reaction to his behaviour may sound harsh, I think it’s completely normal. I totally get that you can love your sons and still dislike him.

You are also being incredibly honest and self aware. And that will be what gets you out of this situation.

I wish my family had gone to therapy, but my parents would never consider it. It sounds like this is something your family would benefit from. You don’t need to wait for an ADHD diagnosis to get some help for your family.

@baldafrique I'd like to think she meant that db and wife are perpetuating the cycle, not their children 🥴 lets be honest, if he was that bad why did his wife decide to have kids with him and why is she still with him if it's negatively impacting the children's lives? Adults must take responsibility when they are the ones who are supposed to be in charge, her parents obviously failed in some areas and in turn db and wife are now failing their children if his behaviour is that terrible. They fuck you up, your mum and dad.

My daughter has ASD and social /emotional skills are a real struggle for her. She's very jealous of her little brother and always tries to get the attention back on her.
Sport has helped a lot. She attends football which is designed with SEN children in mind. Anyone can join but the majority of the children have some form of autism. The guy who runs it is absolutely fantastic with them. Perhaps there's something similar in your area? The best exercise is kickboxing (for my daughter) because it's incredibly physical but also because it helps with breathing and control.
Rules and boundaries are in place at home. We have realistic expectations for behaviour for our children and know that some of my daughter's behaviour is beyond her control, that doesn't mean she gets to decide everything in our lives.

It sounds like you mainly have an issue with people who are extrovert and wish he was more like the rest of you, introverted. My parents are quite extroverted, so am I and one of my siblings. The other 2 are introverted. My parents don't like or dislike any of us due to these personality differences. I find threads about this subject a lot of MNers seem to feel above extroverts as if introverts are better in some way but I'm sure a lot of us find you introverts quiet and boring 😂. Perhaps ge does have ADHD and you'll have to push for a diagnosis. Perhaps he just has an eccentric personality, hes your son. I hope for his sake you get answers either way but I do think you ought to seek some counselling too.

@jamestowno hope so!

Here's your problem right here:
"if we didn't have our daughter who my husband idolises "

Your son can see that your DH has no genuine interest in him. The more you push someone away/ignore them/dismiss them the more they want to either cling or create a drama to try to attract your attention somehow.
It's not the kid that needs looking at it's you and your DH dynamic with him. Your DH might also be jealous of your attention on your DS. Like sibling rivalry re-anacted. So you have to please your DH by pretending not dislike your son. It's very sad.
What is the story with your DH's own family? I would suspect he prefers women as he finds men threatening and in his own family had issues with a brother or a Dad he found very hard to connect with.

I would advise that your DH spends more time alone with your son, taking him out to things. Doing things your DS is interested in, not just stuff that your DH thinks is 'good for him'.
If your DH invests time genuinely trying to get to know his son and really just sitting back and listening to him, you could turn this around.
Your DS is attention seeking possibly because someone in the house isn't really seeing him as a person.

He sounds like my ds. Who has ADHD. He's also very good at masking, so can sit still for interviews and be calm in those situations. It's tiring for him though. He's a good sleeper too.

He changed massively as he got older and became much more aware of his behaviour, became more introverted. I worry about this as I feel he knows he annoys people so spends much of his time trying to control his behaviour and it makes him stressed.
His social skills are still ropey but he has accepted being 'nerdy' as he puts it and found interests and a group of friends who get him.

I had to seek a private assessment and I would suggest doing the same.

@Sawaan

“Your parents were responsible for bringing him up, and let him run riot over you because they had not got the mental or emotional resources to bring up the child that they had.”

And bullshit post of the thread award goes to the aptly named ‘crazy neighbour’.

Usually I can see where a poster is coming from but crazy is so far off it's ridiculous. Her assumptions are a bit much tbh. Maybe it's projection? She has created a whole scenario/backstory about my family and extended family based on VERY little information!

If what crazy said was true then then nobody would be accountable for their actions ever! Just say the magic words: 'It's my Mum and Dad's fault...'.

One of the most important things to teach a child is accountability.
Actions and consequences. Empathy towards others.

Just to add, in the OP's case, teaching her child these life skills are even more challenging and I am full of admiration for anyone with an ASD or ADHD child.

I'm surprised an experienced psychotherapist would choose to make this point on a thread where the op is so patently struggling. I've no doubt what you say is often the case, but the problem with this blanket perspective is that it is very judgemental towards parents who are often doing their very best in difficult circumstances.

I agree with this entirely.