I love but dislike my own child

[Bslhbwie]

I've name changed for this because I'm so ashamed. Can anyone relate to this and tell me it gets better or give me any advice on how to make it better?
Background.... I have two kids. Eldest is a boy age 10. Youngest a girl age 7. Husband and I are married, we are both nearly 40. Have a lovely life and lovely home.
My son has been a very difficult child since day one really. He is very intense. Pretty hyper. He has a lot of attention seeking behaviour at home, with extended family and also at school.
In the past every teacher has had to speak to me almost daily about him shouting out and being distracting /distracted in class. He is a class clown type of child. (never been naughty). He gets on the other children's nerves and struggles socially. Everything has to be his way, and about him. Hes not interested in other peoples likes or feeling , and doesn't show much empathy. His whole school experience so far has been a nightmare for me until this past year where he's had a lovely teacher mixed with him getting older and maturing and hes just had a wonderful report for the first time. But I know it won't last. School pushed me to get him assessed as they were thinking adhd/autism. He went through cahms and was observed in school etc and they discharged him saying no issues, just anxious, which was a shock to us as he comes across as a very confident loud person, but once we discussed all this and he had some counselling we could see this was an act he puts on.
Anyway, my husband and I are quiet people, introverted really. Our daughter is the same. Whereas our son is very extraverted, loves being around people and being the centre of attention. Basically the opposite to us. We have nothing in common at all. Because we are together alot, especially this last year with covid, the impact of the way he acts is causing a lot of negative feelings in our family that I find very upsetting. We treat both of our children equally and we shower them both with love and affection but it's difficult sometimes.
Today is our daughters birthday. He has spent alot of the time trying to get the attention away from her and on to him and it just causes such negative feeling towards him. I sometimes wish that he would just go away a bit and give us a break from the intensity and allow our daughter to have some attention on her for once. (feel terrible saying that).
As time has gone on my husband says that he finds him very difficult to be around, mentally draining and just plain irritating. Every holiday or day out we go on or family gathering etc is dominated by his loudness, attitude, constant talking, interrupting, impulsive silliness etc.
I feel so awful that my husband feels this way that I try to overcompensate with love for my son because I feel sorry for him that he has these struggles and comes across to people in this way. But I'm starting to feel the same way. I get so frustrated with how he is sometimes and wish he was easier to be around. Other children tell me he irritates them. Friends and family comment to me about his unusual personality. Teachers always commenting how he never shuts up. I worry what his adult life will be like.
Can anyone advise me how to make our family a happier unit as I feel like it's him against us and I don't want it to be like that. I genuinely think that if we didn't have our daughter who my husband idolises he would have left us because every argument we have is about our son

@Bslhbwie

He was assessed through cahms and seen by an educational psychologist and observed in school. He is a perfect child in the meetings etc and has full control over his behavior so they said he can't have adhd or asd because it would be in all situations. Wouldn't help us further. We then arranged him to see a child mental health therapist without us there for 6 weeks and again no use at all apart from confirming its anxiety. They said to us he's a very mature young man, who comes across as very sensible and controlled. Nothing like at home or at school. Then because he's had a better year at school with this teacher and all of the covid stuff the sen at school hasn't spoken to us in coming up to 2 years (he's on the sen register)

It is so well known, by professionals and parents of children with SEN that they can and do present entirely differently in different environments. They certainly do not show 'it' all of the time. It's called masking. It's more common in girls but boys can and do do it too.

My daughter has asd (diagnosed) with a pda profile. She's only five. She masks in school and people are surprised to learn she is autistic. She's articulate, clever, and polite. She doesn't have meltdowns (at school, she does at home!). She's anxious, and follows the rules etc but she could pass for neurotypical to the inexperienced eye.

She is most definitely not. She struggles enormously, is very anxious, has huge sensory issues, has violent meltdowns. She doesn't do everything your son does, but the way you describe him dominating everything, your every day just rings true for me.

Please get him reassessed. I don't know what if anything he has and I'm no expert on ADHD but if there is something he can be helped which means you can all be helped.

I feel for you. It's really hard. You clearly love them, push harder to get to the bottom of this.

Sounds very like my oldest, eventually diagnosed with ADHD at 21! Fobbed of by school and CAMHS (awful attempt at family therapy included) i think he was very good at masking in school but all education was going in one ear and out the other. I actually discovered Mumsnet googling to find out if other mothers dreaded the weekend, this was when he was 8 or 9 so it's been a long road. Things are much calmer now but he does not have a close relationship with his brothers like we wanted, its a bit late for that now, since going on meds he can study and has a serious girlfriend, i think he is finding the closeness and easy relationship with her that he couldn't manage with us, she's only known him on meds. This makes me a bit a sad bit he won't talk to me about issues in the past, he just wants to move on. Ironically he has always had more attention than his brothers but feels they are the favored children.

@Bslhbwie

He was assessed through cahms and seen by an educational psychologist and observed in school. He is a perfect child in the meetings etc and has full control over his behavior so they said he can't have adhd or asd because it would be in all situations. Wouldn't help us further. We then arranged him to see a child mental health therapist without us there for 6 weeks and again no use at all apart from confirming its anxiety. They said to us he's a very mature young man, who comes across as very sensible and controlled. Nothing like at home or at school. Then because he's had a better year at school with this teacher and all of the covid stuff the sen at school hasn't spoken to us in coming up to 2 years (he's on the sen register)

Have a look into masking, where autistic individuals behave differently in different environments. Anxiety is also very commonly associated with autism. Sounds like CAHMS/Ed psyc don’t have a clue, definitely get reassessed. You could go through GP for a paediatric referral, he needs to be assessed by a specialist autism team using ADOS etc. Present them with a list of all the difficulties he has with social communication & interaction, rigidity and any sensory issues. Hopefully with a diagnosis you and your husband will start to be able to understand him better and support him, family counselling could also really help. In the meantime do as much research as you can into ADHD/autism, join Facebook support groups etc and start trying to implement some strategies to see if anything helps. It sounds like he’s getting overwhelmed by the school environment then releasing all his stress at home, so adjustments and support at school could also help.

I can relate to this and I think it was brave of you to post about it, so thanks for that. I know what you mean about how it can be painful as parents together when it's not all perfect, it's hard on the relationship. I have found my 2ndDS incredibly intense, annoying, moody, miserable etc., many times over the years. For context I have an older DS who is fine / get on well with. Younger DC been driving me crazy with weird throat / nasal clearing thing for last few years. Doctors not interested / can't help. There's no reason for him to be anxious, his life is fine. Sometimes I have to put earplugs in and listen to something to block out the noise because it get's right under my skin. I feel bad, he's my son, I love him, I don't seem able to fix this problem.
I know your experience is not exactly the same I just wanted to say that I get the essence of it. Like some others, probably a bit wary of the labels & meds, but on the other hand I wouldn't judge people who go down that route because sometimes it makes such a positive difference to people and I would never rule it out. If I were you I'd seek a private consultation, if possible.

I meant to add, but bet others have said this, does he have enough hobbies / interests? and activities in his week? He sounds super energetic and bright, needs to be around people and doing stuff. What activities around your way might he be able / interested in? I think when they are young it's fair enough to heavily nudge them into things just for sake of trying, they have a proper go and it's Ok if they don't want to keep it up. My DC's don't do any of the things I made them do now, but I think it did them good to go and mix with others / do different things.

His whole school experience so far has been a nightmare for me until this past year where he's had a lovely teacher mixed with him getting older and maturing and hes just had a wonderful report for the first time. But I know it won't last.

I worry that this is a crucial statement. If you read what you’ve wrote, your son has just had the right kind of environment, some nurturing and a wonderful report. And yet you still see the problem as ‘him’ and even sadder, that he’s done so well at school recently but you are still negative about it.

Read ‘the explosive child’ by mr green. He says ‘children do well if they CAN’ which is a great phrase. Your son just cannot ‘be still’ or stop talking by himself. It is not his fault.

Your job isn’t to like your children. But your job is to nurture and give them the best environment, and as you can see your son thrived in a class with a teacher who did that. Hard as it is, you have to give him more of that.

That’s not to say you can’t feel exhausted - but find an outlet outside of your child. Spend time with him individually so that you and your husband share the care and find activities for him that let him thrive. If he is ADHD then time with games on a PS5 would possibly be one of the best things for him, if he hasn’t got one yet. It would give you all space and he could get some instant stimulation. CAMHs aren’t great. I’d push again for an assessment of ADHD. But for you as a family this will take months and in the meantime, you have just got to get over your irritation of him.

Ask him very clearly to give your sister time when it’s important. But it sounds like he may never be getting his own attention as it sounds like neither you or your husband want to spend any time with him. Change that. Bring him to a sport activity or something he enjoys, of the cinema, anything where he can be engaged and you don’t just have to stare at each other. Tell him you love him and tell him what you do like about him. Do that a lot. You’ll be amazed at what change this could make.

I know what you mean and have often felt like this about DS8. It's a funny feeling as I love him so much but I dislike so many aspects of his personality too. I feel so guilty saying it but I have been in the situation where a simply don't want to spend time with him.

My son is awkward and difficult. He's extremely stubborn and argues to argue, consequences or rewards seem to have little effect on his behaviour. He has ruined many nice days out with moaning and insolence and is very ungrateful. He's the kind of child who moans when you buy him sweets as they aren't enough, or his birthday party is outside (due to COVID) instead of inside. We just seem to clash as he irritates me so much. He's extremely tiring. I end up just walking away from him at times. It's hard as at the same time I feel overwhelming love for him when he cuddles me at night a calls for me when he's upset. It's like waking a type rope.

I tell him I love him every day. We both praise him for every little thing he does. We tell him how proud we are.
Before covid messed things up he went to cubs and swimming. He also went to after school clubs as he is very sporty but unfortunately again his pe teacher isn't a fan of his because he struggles to keep to the rules of a game.
We take him to all sorts of places, climbing walls, trampoline places, obstacle courses. He's got a bike and we take him off roading with that. He has a best friend who lives in the next street and he plays out a lot with him. This friend has been amazing for him and has really helped him socially. He never says thank you for any of this tho
Last year my daughter and I went to our caravan for a couple of days and my husband and him spent some quality time together biking and playing computer games. My husband also built him from scratch a play area in our garden including monkey bars, pull up bars, trampoline, slide, swing, climbing frame. All to help him burn off energy.

The reason he's not been in trouble at school is because the teacher let's him get away with everything and just let's him be. The other teachers are much stricter and won't stand for it. He's going into Yr 6 in September and the teacher is a dragon. I'm already having sleepless nights worrying about it. With the addition of him doing SATS next year aswell. I'm dreading it.

@Quincie what on earth are you on about? Why should my 7 year old girl who is so well behaved all of the time, have to allow her brother to take over her birthday and accept that because that's just the way it is? Regardless of if he has special needs or not he needs to understand that not everything can be about him all the time. And we are trying to teach him that other people are entitled to attention aswell!

@Bslhbwie people are being too hard on you IMO. I completely understand what you are saying. My eldest struggles and their sibling recently had a birthday and their behaviour was tricky all day.

@Bslhbwie I can’t see in your posts anywhere, have you done any parenting courses? Because this sounds like as much a parent problem as a 10 year old problem.

Even if you are getting it right with 1 kid. They are not all the same, what works with 1 does not work with another.

One of my kids is on the anxious side and can be hard to take. We did the cool little kids program which was very helpful in talking to her about her behaviour and has helped her flourish. I think there is an older kid version too.

Another of my kids has sensory processing issues which manifests in not dissimilar ways. But the way you handle it is completely different. We’ve just done a parenting workshop for that and it has helped hugely.

Also look into circle of security. The anxiety comes from me, so I did this course too and it was really helpful. My 3rd kid is very normal but it has even helped me with her.

Your last reply was, I don’t know, still didn’t have one nice thing to say about your DS. It’s more like you were defending, which I get, you came on here to be open but sometimes, it’s what you don’t want to hear that can be the most benefit to you in the long run.

Maybe your son needs to have someone give him some free rein? And if he has a best friend, he must be doing something right, he can’t be irritating him so much.

The most striking thing from me from your posts is that you don’t like your son, and have nothing good to say about him.

If you do take him cycling, and to activities, then isn’t it great that he engages with these? Isn’t it great he has a best friend?

I wonder if you could list a few things that you do feel proud of about your son, that you like or you see are positive for others even if they aren’t your cup of tea?

@Bslhbwie

The reason he's not been in trouble at school is because the teacher let's him get away with everything and just let's him be. The other teachers are much stricter and won't stand for it. He's going into Yr 6 in September and the teacher is a dragon. I'm already having sleepless nights worrying about it. With the addition of him doing SATS next year aswell. I'm dreading it.

I had a son who just couldn’t get on at school and irritated all of the teachers all of the time. Of course it was really wearing having to be the parent that no teacher liked too and constantly complained about. But my DS, like most kids, wasn’t a monster. He was just a kid, who talked all the time and did annoying things all the time, but every single child wants to feel OK about themselves. So I decided, he’s not going to get that feeling from school, I have to give it. I have to make him feel OK about who he is. That is not to say I put up with rudeness, but I let a lot of things go and just picked the important battles (which to me were being kind and considerate). And the rest of the time, I wasn’t on his back, I made sure I noticed what he was good about him. He is thriving now. Wasn’t easy, but as someone grows they definitely get less ‘chatty’ and lively.

So why have sleepless nights worrying? He will be OK like most kids. He might flunk his exams, but he will get a job. It’s not the end of the world.

Consider: systemic family therapy
Private clinical or educational psychologist for assessment ensuring their report and any diagnosis will be recognised by services.
Signing him up to after school clubs or clubs at the weekend to get some respite and also to play to his strengths and as a special reward/interest for him to experience.

If you can afford to go private I'd be finding someone whose really good, maybe recommendation on the SN boards here and getting a diagnosis. He sounds more ADHD than Autistic but if you do go down the private route you may be able to get him assessed for both at the same time.

All the kids I know with ADHD have done a lot better on medication. Medication has been a game changer and allowed mental space for the other strategies to work. I don't know the UK system, can you be referred publically again? Though given wait times if you can afford it private is usually much faster.

You could also try Dr Ross Greene book the explosive child. We've found it helpful, but it's more ASD and ADD for us.

@PixellatedPixie

Your son absolutely has all the hallmarks of ADHD. I would (if at all possible financially) have him assessed privately by an educational psychologist. That would potentially lead to him having therapy and medication to help him focus. All of your lives will be improved if he does have ADHD and gets the correct treatment. I grew up with an older brother who had ADHD and he was a very domineering force in my life and not always in a good way. My parents chose to not medicate him (general scepticism of psychiatric drugs that many people have) and it probably made all of our lives harder!

Completely agree.

Children on the ND spectrum are often able to make the family centre around them. They have additional needs, and it can be exhausting to accommodate them whether you're aware of every allowance you give or not.

He's anxious. Did the specialists suggest where his anxiety is coming from? Could it be because his family don't accept who he is as a person? Being talkative isn't an excuse for taking over, but how do you deal with that? Do you start the day saying it's sister's birthday let's make her feel special all day, what does he think she'll like what can we do, or do you say nothing and then get annoyed because he hasn't read your mind about how you want him to behave.

I feel sorry for him. No matter how much you fake it he will know that the way you interact with his sister is much more genuine than how you are with him. To me he sounds desperate for acknowledgement and is doing the only thing that has worked for him over the last 10 years.

Please google primitive reflexes not going dormant and see if that applies to him.
It gets complicated if you have a tricky child. It might seem like he is getting a lot of your time or attention but on a subconscious level he is likely to know he’s not very popular within his own family which will be affecting him. Not a criticism I have been there myself. When I was sold to get my son’s primitive reflexes dormant his tricky ways disappeared and his calm and thoughtful side dominated and now I both love and adore spending time with him. But it was much different when he was younger and my teeth are cracked from gritting through them to cope with some of his behaviours.

I agree re the referral and pushing for as much support as possible. The original post touched on much more than the son’s needs though, it was a great deal about the family dynamic which is not all down to a diagnoses. That stuff needs addressing

The thing that stood out to me in your OP was that your dh idolises your daughter. Then you've said your son doesn't say thank you for all the things he gets like climbing activities etc your son is anxious and I feel very sad for him.

It's up to both of you as parents to make him feel secure and not have a favour

Not have a favourite and a scapegoat but you clearly do

Get him privately assessed. That’s how you can help him. Stop saying no one will help you. Go private. This is your whole families happiness that’s at steak here and and an assessment won’t be much more than a family holiday. Prioritise getting him help.

The child has had a neuro-pathway assessment from CAMHS; that has ruled out ASD/ADHD.
He feels the miss fit as much as you do. That's driving his deep anxiety. You and your husband are obviously open to think about things differently - the comment you made about understanding your child's anxiety driving some of his behaviour. Have you the resources for Family Therapy OP? It key help you understand the patterns of behaviour and blame you're in and how to move forward as a family.

What does he enjoy? Does he have anything that really fascinates him? I would try and find something that perhaps he can do as a project with one of year, build a PC, strip an engine, do up and old car?? Something where he can spend quality time with you and feel a sense of pride in.

What about a sport? Something less team based maybe?? Where he can exert lots of energy, make new friends and again achieve success; maybe swimming or boxing, tennis, maybe a youth gym? Something you can praise him for doing and achieving in.

Is there a family member he does click with of one adult at school? He needs championing.

I hope an assessment helps too.