Daughter thinks we are poor

[MollysMummy2010]

This is no way a stealth brag as I know I am reasonably lucky.

Between me and DH we earn £90k per year but we live in London and poor choices in our youth mean we rent. My 9 year old DD has a small bedroom but has lived in the same place all her life. She has (pre Covid) had all the opportunities her friends have had re clubs, activities etc and I don't think she is aware that we rent rather then own our home.

Some of her friends live in huge houses and she seems to resent us for the fact that we don't. I try to teach her the value of money, and also, that as there are only three of us, how much space to we really need?

I am worried she will be embarrassed but don't want her to be!
What do I do?

I think we don't talk about money enough with children. I grew up very poor, Dh middle class. I can still feel the burn of the shame for having hand-me-down shoes that were too big and I had to put tissues in the toes to stop them falling off my feet in primary school when we played elastics. Most families were similar to mine, the occasional "wealthy" family who could afford to shop at M&S for clothes

We made sure early on that the children knew a meal out was half our weekly food shop, on one meal. Or how much the new carpet cost (maths exercise work out room size then carpet price) new sofas, cars anything we bought basically.

As I said up thread we did the teacher starting salary as that was a job they could relate to as was a supermarket worker. Then we showed them houses they would be able to buy. We walked them round our house, pointed out everything in it and that it all costs money from the toaster to the toothbrush. They are now very money savvy teens.

In a weird way, I think a lot of people are having these conversations especially post-Covid. Your lifestyle (where you live, not the renting part) is a choice - so own it. A lot of people who cant afford mansions in parts of London raise their kids in flats - it is a choice. You could move further out and rent a two-bed house but it wont be such a nice area with a longer commute.

I've just had a look at some primary admissions - a few schools that are usually oversubscribed but surrounded by nice period flats, this year have lots of available spaces. That means a lot of well-to-do families who live in flats in affluent parts of London have decided to leave following Coivd/WFH and haven't been replaced. Again it's a choice.

In your place, I would make the same choice but recognise that it does mean that your daughter will be poor in comparison to her peers - you earn 90k but am assuming the others are on 200k plus plus plus. She might decide that it matters she's poor or not. But you can also explain it to her by saying that you could have a big house but you would have to move further away and prefer to stay where you are.

I do also think you have to be kind of blunt with kids about the reality of wealth disparity. My PILs are quite well off relatively and DS is aware even at 4 that they have a very big house and garden. I am pretty blunt with him that some people are luckier than others, or have better paid jobs, also that different parts of the country cost less. My overriding message though is the best way he can try to get the things he wants is to work hard when he goes to school.

I don't know about discussing actual finances with kids. Mil is poor and we try to help out as much as possible. She sees us as filthy rich (5ok euro) and back when we were digging ourselves out of debt (college loans, paying rent and a mortgage for nearly two years as we couldn't find a tenant but had to move out of our apartment because we had 4 kids but nobody would rent the apartment, then all the other bills) she ranted at us because we went to the money advice bureau to talk about how we could figure out how to have more money. She still constantly talks about if she had our money. You hear stories about that all the time on mn. If adults can't get their head around outgoings, you're just going to overload a child

90k is a lot of money. I’m struggling to understand why you can’t but your own property to be honest. DH earns £50k and I earn a few hundred a month and we save about £1000k a month

Do you live in London? Did you make “poor choices in your youth”? If not, then this is irrelevant. And also isn’t what the OP was asking.

We live in such a wealthy area where the children all live in 5 bed houses and we have a 2 bed flat.

My response to her would be, you can live here in this small flat and have all your friends, or we can move somewhere else and have a big house that we don’t actually need. Where schools might not be so good etc.

It’s not just about valuing money, it’s about teaching her that grown ups make choices, usually for the benefit of their children and that when they are grown ups they can make their own choices.

Do you live in London? Did you make “poor choices in your youth”? If not, then this is irrelevant. And also isn’t what the OP was asking

I know you weren’t aiming this at me, but I raised the same point, and I live just outside London in an equally expensive part of the south east ans yes I made poor choices.

The fact remains with about five grand a month coming in after tax and living in a small two bed flat, and driving a clapped out car because you can’t afford a new one and would need to borrow then the numbers don’t stack up..

She needs to be taught how lucky she is. I have always taught my children that things cost money and that even if we can’t afford expensive things we are far better off than others. My oldest is 9 youngest 3, they regularly go through their things to donate to charity. There are a number of local community groups helping struggling families out, I make sure my DCs help me when sorting through things and donating, they enjoy giving things to other less fortunate than the. They also shop with me for food for the food banks too. I will happily shop at charity shops, I tell my children why pay full price when you can find something perfectly nice cheaper plus the money you are spending goes to help others. I explain to them that I can buy one dress for £30 from a regular shop, or 3 dresses for £12 from a charity shop and an ice cream each. And ask which they prefer....They also know there is absolutely no shame in being poor.

Depends on whether OP has debts.

I'd make her watch "I, Daniel Blake" to give her more of an idea what being "poor" is. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I,_Daniel_Blake

@youvegottenminuteslynn

"While we may have less income than your friends, we are still in the top 5% of incomes in the UK. We work bloody hard to earn the money that pays for your lifestyle and it's hurtful you perceive yourself as hard done by when we are privileged as a family. That's why we'll be encouraging you to volunteer, work and learn the value of money and the important of being self sufficient throughout your life."

In spades.

Absolutely this.

Nip it in the bud OP, otherwise you will have your hands full in secondary.

A friend of mine's son said something similar to her about his private school friends.

She was very sympathetic to him (in a really faux sweet way😁) and told him that his father and herself would be happy for him to move to another non fee paying school if he felt he would be more comfortable there, but she certainly wasn't going to feel guilty about the nice ordinary home they had.
She never heard another word.

It would be exactly how I would like to handle it.

I would not hesitate to remind her what a lucky little girl she is!

My son used to think we were poor. He was at private school at the time but mixing with kids who lived in huge houses, had multiple expensive holidays etc etc. He always seemed so ungrateful for what he had and always wanted more.

Then we moved him to a state school in an area with a very varied catchment. He suddenly realised just how fortunate he was and regularly comes home telling me how x's mum can't even afford to buy him a special shirt for the school show can we please lend him one and how lucky he is that we can afford to go to the theatre several times a year when y would love to go and never can.

It's made him a much nicer person and he values money much more now.

Are you trying to buy any property now though? Is it wise to rent all your life - what are your plans? Would you consider buying something at a lower price than your area's but say an hour's drive away to go to at week ends or holidays or to rent out? The recent cuts in stamp duty tax has been seen by some as a chance to buy property.

Well, she sounds absolutely delightful! I agree with PPs, maybe it's time she started earning some money herself.

Comfromaway
So true. It's why although we can afford it, I don't want to send my child to private school. Anywhere that is charging fees will have predominantly the wealthiest children and I think it's important to see and experience being among a group of peers that arent all so well off. Also to see that a friend may not be materially wealthy but may live in a happy home with supportive parents/family and that that is just as important.

So sweet, DS has a friend who is very affluent and has a swimming pool but he told me last week that "I have my DSis and she's better than a swimming pool".

I tell my DD we are poor on a daily basis. Money for Roblox does not fall from trees. Although I did hear her tell her school play date yesterday that her mum is poor. I was both mortified and found it hilarious at the same time.

@Feelingconfused2020

Show her this

www.gapminder.org/videos/using-photos-as-data-to-understand-how-people-live/

Honestly it's brilliant

I second that - such an eye opener. Google The Dollar Street Project - it is enlightening.

@NoIDontWatchLoveIsland

Comfromaway So true. It's why although we can afford it, I don't want to send my child to private school. Anywhere that is charging fees will have predominantly the wealthiest children and I think it's important to see and experience being among a group of peers that arent all so well off. Also to see that a friend may not be materially wealthy but may live in a happy home with supportive parents/family and that that is just as important.

So sweet, DS has a friend who is very affluent and has a swimming pool but he told me last week that "I have my DSis and she's better than a swimming pool".

That is too cute. Sadly I think my son would swap his sister for a pool in a heartbeat. Maybe even a paddling pool if I'm being honest....

A loving home is so much more important than material belongings. I’ve name changed for this... My in laws are beyond rich. I’m talking stately home, houses across different countries, fly mostly in private jets etc. They have all of the trappings of wealth, but their parenting skills leave a lot to be desired!! DH has low esteem because of them, but is strong enough to keep them at a distance. However, his sister has serious MH issues. PIL have always prioritised themselves above all else. Everything is about how things look, who knows who etc. SIL had a really unhappy childhood with every imaginable luxury. She’s never had her parents’ time and attention. She was bullied badly at boarding school. A boarding school that she didn’t need to attend (10 mins from their main house), but her parents were jetting here there and everywhere and they always spent 2 weeknights in London to socialise. Despite an education costing £40k a year, she’s now unemployed following a stint as a shop assistant. She doesn’t need to work, as she lives in a lovely apartment they bought. PIL pay for her living expenses and therapists. They never spend time with her just because though.

MIL frequently tells me what I need to do to improve our lovely house. She told me years ago that we (me and DH) “needed different friends” who are basically more influential. Last week she told me I needed Botox 😂 I know to ignore the silly vacuous cowbag. However, SIL doesn’t know that. She’s grown up being told she needs to be different. For her 30th birthday, PIL bought her a £3k handbag and a statue!! They also sent her to a clinic in the Swiss mountains to lose weight. Since then SIL has put on an extreme amount of weight. It’s so sad to see how awful this extremely privileged upbringing has manifested in a deeply unhappy person.

Hopefully your daughter will learn to appreciate your time and love. That’s what builds a happy, confident child, not swimming pools, tennis courts and just stuff and memberships to private clubs etc.

@Comefromaway

My son used to think we were poor. He was at private school at the time but mixing with kids who lived in huge houses, had multiple expensive holidays etc etc. He always seemed so ungrateful for what he had and always wanted more.

Then we moved him to a state school in an area with a very varied catchment. He suddenly realised just how fortunate he was and regularly comes home telling me how x's mum can't even afford to buy him a special shirt for the school show can we please lend him one and how lucky he is that we can afford to go to the theatre several times a year when y would love to go and never can.

It's made him a much nicer person and he values money much more now.

This is quite sad though that he is so focused on material things and finances. I don’t know how old he is. But no one should be as obsessed as this.😞

I'm going to try this trick with mine, it is supposed to teach them the value of money and gratitude. No idea if it works, but worth a try. Split their pocket money into three sections: one is to spend as they choose, one to save and one to donate to charity. That way they learn to give to others and to save for the future, whilst valuing what they have.

He is autistic bluntness.

"The fact remains with about five grand a month coming in after tax and living in a small two bed flat, and driving a clapped out car because you can’t afford a new one and would need to borrow then the numbers don’t stack up.."

Don't stack up? Stack up to what exactly? What are you trying to insinuate?

The OP said her daughter has a small bedroom, not that she has a small flat. She also said they don't need anymore space.

The OP said that she doesn't care about cars and that she drives an old car, simply because they don't interest her. She didn't say it was "clapped out"

As she isn't interested in new cars she has no interest in paying for one. Nowhere did she say that she'd "need to borrow for one".

You seem desperate to label the OP as some kind of liar but it's quite easy to see where 5k would go monthly paying rent in an affluent area in London, paying off debts and funding a child and a lifestyle of their preferred standard.

You're just making stuff up.

@Comefromaway

He is autistic bluntness.

Ah, ok, I’m sorry, that was not evident from your post.

If I lived in London I'd be permanently skint as I'd be going to the theatre every week!

@Feelingconfused2020 Thanks for the Dollar Street project link, it is fascinating.