Daughter thinks we are poor

[MollysMummy2010]

This is no way a stealth brag as I know I am reasonably lucky.

Between me and DH we earn £90k per year but we live in London and poor choices in our youth mean we rent. My 9 year old DD has a small bedroom but has lived in the same place all her life. She has (pre Covid) had all the opportunities her friends have had re clubs, activities etc and I don't think she is aware that we rent rather then own our home.

Some of her friends live in huge houses and she seems to resent us for the fact that we don't. I try to teach her the value of money, and also, that as there are only three of us, how much space to we really need?

I am worried she will be embarrassed but don't want her to be!
What do I do?

[MrsPetty]

She sounds as if she’s old enough to earn her own money ... that’s what gave my daughters financial perspective. They can earn €8 a week and up to €2 performance related pay. They have three jars - spend, save, donate and they have to put something in each one - they choose how much. One cleans the bathroom and the other takes care of the hall, stairs and landing having undergone thorough training 😂 They now understand what it is to have money. How to budget for what they want each week. How to pool and buy collective gifts. If she has her own and earns it she’ll have a whole different financial focus.

[OmniversalSpecies2021]

I doubt she's a spolit child/ungrateful.....she's 9 years old and observing the differences in the 'standard of living'/outwardly material aspects that the immediate world she's in is showing her.
And she's allowed top voice her grumbles and dissatisfaction with the inequalities she observes in the world without being made to feel that she is personally being 'ungrateful'.

The differences between 'rich/poor' will become more apparent as she grows older....it's a matter of how to help her enjoy the blessings she has without negating her right to express how she feels.

Forcing/coercing.manipulating her into 'giving away' her stuff etc is more likely to foster deewp down resentment rather than help.

[Tiddleypoms]

We had a similar situation op. We had a horse ,but struggled to pay liverly fees , had to eat cheap food ( worth it ! ) . Our dd mixed with kids with lots of money.. new and old money and for a while their view about it all was quite out of balance. Think 200k horse box , when we had a trailer and an old jeep . 17 k ponies , competitions we cdnt afford to enter that was taken as normal to some dc.
After a few years, and high school , where dd had a mate whose family cdnt afford new bra for a young lass who was at school in a subsequently ill fitrimg bra , ate junk food etc all the time , dd world soon became more aware .

[Bythemillpond]

I too was sent to a private school after spending my earlier years in a bad estate that was cleared as part of the slum clearance

I stuck out like a sore thumb. I had a distinct accent from growing up in a certain area snd my mother tried to change it by getting me elocution lessons.
I didn’t want to be there. I pleaded with my mother not to send me. I wanted to go to the secondary modern with my friends.
There followed 6 years of complete misery added on to the fact my mother would tell me daily how much she was working to provide me with such a lovely school and a good start in life.
I even developed a stomach ulcer when I was there as I was under so much stress.
I left with no qualifications and what I now know was depression.

Dd went to a specialist private school but only because she really wanted to go and it was relatively cheap other than that I would have sent her to the local comp

I would never over stretch myself for a school unless it was something that dc really wanted and I could afford.

[cassie2and2]

I'm well into retirement now but can remember a miserable childhood because my mother insisted I was sent to a small private school where all the other girls had everything, nice private houses, we lived in a council house, nice clothes and all the fathers had cars, the mothers all did their bit for the school charities, my mother was too busy working to pay my fees to do any of that so I was the only one to turn up cakeless on sell a cake day etc. so I know how it feels to be the odd one out when you are young, later on I realised my parents were doing their best for me, but when you are young the embarrassment can be very hard to deal with no matter how many explanations you are given.

[TwoAndAnOnion]

It's about perceptions though.

If 'all her friends' really do live in 5 bed houses, then a flat is very small by comparison; there's little space to have friends over, and teenagers can be somewhat 'sneery' at that age.

I was having a strange conversation with BIL yesterday, and him saying he never brought friends or girlfriends home because his parents decore embarrassed him.

So I can see at that age it is all about wanting to fit in.

We've all been children and we all know, no matter the size of the house or the income, the house/friend we all gravitate to is the one with the mum with the ever full cake tin and listening ear.

[wheresmymojo]

There are a couple of videos on YouTube showing children living in poverty in the UK - maybe treat it as a little research project to do together?

[MadMadaMim]

@gottakeeponmovin.

You have me mixed up with aomwo e else or youj have not read my post properly.

I have not said anywhere that I equate happiness with not being rich - and I certainly have not said this to my daughter.

I also did not say that being rich means you don't have a close family.

You've literally twisted what I said with your own skewed view on it. Read it again. One of the main pionts I was making is that level of financial wealth is a small factor in happiness. I don't know how you've taken what you have from my comment.

I have not put anyone in a bad light and I certainly do not need (or want or am inclined) to gauge my or my daughter's or anyone else's happiness on negatives. Happiness is not based on being better than others or richer/poorer.

Read my post. If that's still what you see then you have issues. You're filling in gaps that aren't there.

Just to be clear - one of the main points to my daughter was that financial status is not an indicator of happiness - we all have our worries, insecurities etc and those who are better off/wealthy may not have them about money but other things that are just as valid.

As I said, you have me mixed up with someone else.

[PerspicaciousGreen]

@YouWereGr8InLittleMenstruators

OP, I think previous posters who have focused on your family's sense of security and having enough to live comfortably while loving each other are so right. Being contented with enough is such an important lesson and one which will hopefully steer humanity away from a cliff edge.
My DC are a bit worried we are poor, but only because their particular friends (in quite a mixed suburban primary) come from much better off families. A couple of DC's friends have remarked on the size of our small house, and they occasionally come home from their friends' houses itching with comparison.
DP and I are professionals in the public sector, fairly low paid. Working with vulnerable groups and being politically active helps with context, the DC hear us discuss issues in society impacting our work, so realise there are those far worse off. We try to keep consumption and travel to a minimum on environmental grounds, so holiday in the UK and always buy second hand clothing, tech, furniture, appliances, toys etc. As they've grown older, the DC now understand that lifestyle can be informed by values, and just because you have the means to acquire possessions, it doesn't mean you have to or necessarily should. Instead, they know we are debt free, are able to save, and help us choose which charitable causes to support.

This is a great post. The reality is that even if we had all the money in the world there are some things we wouldn't choose to buy. It seems strange to me to say, "We can't afford it" if your kids beg for an iPhone or whatever as some kind of easy get out clause. As if the only reason they aren't allowed an iPhone is that you don't have the ready cash for it. What if you have a windfall and still don't buy them one?

I'd like my kids to have a realistic view of where our family sits on the income spectrum of the UK and the world - but also why, which I think is important. We don't want a car even if we could afford one. Everyone in our house gets second hand clothes, books etc. We make these choices because of our values and priorities - which include wanting to have a SAHP at the moment, as well as the environment and our religious beliefs.

Most people's finances are run because of both circumstances and choices, and I find it strange to pretend to your children that you do something because you have to when actually you choose to.

[gottakeeponmovin]

@MadMadaMim I agree with most of what you say but it does irritate me that some people are equating happy families with not being rich. It has nothing to do with your financial Staus - in fact one of the top reasons for stress and divorce is money worries so if anything it's likely to be the other way round. It seems like people try to make their kids feel better about their financial situation by implying they are better in other ways ie well you have a sibling. Not everyone wants a sibling and not everyone gets on with their siblings. And not every wealthy family doesn't have a close nuclear and extended family. We are all different, we all have issues. Some are wealthier, some are happier, some are healthier. We all need to accept our lot and where we can try and make it better - but comparing ourselves to others to try and put them in a bad light just because they are more wealthy is not a good look.

[MadMadaMim]

I haven't RTFT so apologies if this has all been said.

At this age (9) most children, and especially girls, have so many insecurities. In our society it comes with the territory! For you (and us) one of them is being' poor' compared to those around us. For those who are financially better off, their insecurities will be just as valid but may not be money related. If we can help our children understand and be aware of this, it makes the whole 'awakening to life outside the family bubble' much easier.

We had a very similar thing with our DD and it started around the same age. We live in an area that is a good mix socioeconomically, however it would be considered an affluent area on the whole.

The primary school was very small and most were very well off families living in huge houses. She became very aware of the differences. Asking why we were 'poor' (we're not) etc. It was quite intense for about a year and then became less and less of a focus (she seemed a little obsessed for a few months.).

I just made sure that I engaged with her and didn't rubbish her feelings and views. I was very age appropriately honest with her. My view is that if our children are asking the question, they are ready for an honest answer as possible.

We would give her examples of everything she had. All the travel and holidays, school trips. Her own room, great parties, all her clubs and out of school activities. We also made her look around and acknowledge actual poverty and what it really looks like and why it is not important from the perspective she was giving it. She definitely became more aware of 'real' life. She also began to see that well off/rich has minimal bearing on happiness. And her friends always love coming to our house and tell her how lucky she is to get on so well with her parents.

Once sleepovers and spending time in other households became more frequent as she got older, she realised that we are not poor and, even if we had been, her home life and relationship with us and our wider family, is more open, happy and healthy than those of lots of her friend (her observation from frank discussions with friends) .

An upside is that she is determined to do well, give herself the best start as possible and work at being financially independent - she studies really hard and has recently started her first regular paid job (only 8 hours per week but earns enough to enjoy and join in with her friends).

The insecurity of being less well off resurfaced again recently (she's at 6th form college) - again, part of a very affluent group of friends and has her first serious BF whose family is rich. She's become aware of how run down our little terraced home is. It hasn't helped that my job was made redundant last summer due to pandemic.

This time around though, she's much more realistic about what our economic status means in the grand scheme of things. She even said she doesn't want any presents for her birthday and would prefer it going towards home improvements. Of course, that's not going to happen and I told her this. If our financial status is an issue with her friends/BF, I pointed out that she probably should get new friends/BF. And she's admitted it's not their problem, it's her own. She's embarrassed that it may reflect negatively on her but doesn't know why she feels this way. I don't either and we agreed it's something only she can work out.

It's hard living in a world that constantly tells us the important things in life are material and celebrity is so revered - and these 'role models' (!) only become celebrities to sell stuff and ideals to young impressionable children! It's very different to our childhoods. Our children are bombarded 24/7 despite our best efforts to shield them from all the noise and unrealistic crap. All we can do is listen and acknowledge their feelings, fears and worries, discuss them honestly and they will grow out of them.

Good luck

[theleafandnotthetree]

@Middersweekly

Yes I definitely agree with this *@theleafandnotthetree* it is party luck re-what environment you are born into. Some families may have ready made businesses set up by parents or grandparents or so called generational money. Wealth often creates more wealth. These people may not have to work particularly hard for their earnings v’s someone born into poverty. I also agree that success looks different to different people. My DM for example was the first in her family to obtain a degree. She was brought up in extreme london poverty. No food to eat (except free school dinners), donated second hand school uniform and shoes that didn’t fit with holes in them. She and her siblings had to pinch fruit and veg from local allotments for food. She lives a modest lifestyle now in her 60’s having worked hard all her life and managed to purchase her own home all by herself. She’s not wealthy by any stretch but she feels lucky and grateful. She is a story of success I feel. To an outsider she may not look like it though.

Your mother sounds wonderful and I can identify with it to a small extent. I hardly ever turn on a tap and have warm water come out on demand or walk back into my very modest house but which is mine and think 'I am so lucky'. I didn't and don't have anything like what many others have - some of whom frankly have earned very little of it - but I still have a hell of a lot more than most and more to the point, I hugely value what I DO have. Don't they say that's one of the keys to happiness?

[ThePlantsitter]

@gottakeeponmovin

Whilst I agree there may be some luck involved everyone i know who has achieved well financially has done so in spite of their upbringing not because of. If you want to have nice things you have to go above and beyond what the average person will do in terms of education, commute etc. There is no harm in telling children that if they want the trappings of success they will need to work hard for it. These posts always astound me with people stating we may not have money but we have a happy family. Many people who are well off still have both parents together with a close nuclear and extended family. It's not one or the other. That also has some elements of luck as does everything in life. And wanting to experience other cultures and expose children to life outside of the U.K. is not something to be ashamed of! Saying we never travel by air because of the environmental impact? Do you have a car (that omits more CO2 per mile than a flight)? Use electricity? A fire? Commute to work? Unless you are self sufficient and living off the land always travelling on a bike your point is bollocks quite frankly. Everywhere in the world some have more than others, you can increase your chances of success by working hard. I'm honest about this with my kids - they will never live in Kensington palace but they if they want a big house in their future they need to knuckle down at school and get a well paying job.

I agree with most of what you say, but kids (and everyone else) need to know that some people don't have to work hard to be rich, they already are. It is not fair but it's reality. So you may see some people not working and being rich but you need to know - that's not what you can do I'm afraid.

[gottakeeponmovin]

Whilst I agree there may be some luck involved everyone i know who has achieved well financially has done so in spite of their upbringing not because of. If you want to have nice things you have to go above and beyond what the average person will do in terms of education, commute etc. There is no harm in telling children that if they want the trappings of success they will need to work hard for it. These posts always astound me with people stating we may not have money but we have a happy family. Many people who are well off still have both parents together with a close nuclear and extended family. It's not one or the other. That also has some elements of luck as does everything in life. And wanting to experience other cultures and expose children to life outside of the U.K. is not something to be ashamed of! Saying we never travel by air because of the environmental impact? Do you have a car (that omits more CO2 per mile than a flight)? Use electricity? A fire? Commute to work? Unless you are self sufficient and living off the land always travelling on a bike your point is bollocks quite frankly. Everywhere in the world some have more than others, you can increase your chances of success by working hard. I'm honest about this with my kids - they will never live in Kensington palace but they if they want a big house in their future they need to knuckle down at school and get a well paying job.

[mynameisbiggles]

Child poverty is classed as : Not having a holiday away from home at least once per year, not having a computer in the house and not having bank account (albeit controlled by an adult). based on this many of us were all raised in poverty - how did we cope!

[Middersweekly]

Yes I definitely agree with this @theleafandnotthetree it is party luck re-what environment you are born into. Some families may have ready made businesses set up by parents or grandparents or so called generational money. Wealth often creates more wealth. These people may not have to work particularly hard for their earnings v’s someone born into poverty. I also agree that success looks different to different people. My DM for example was the first in her family to obtain a degree. She was brought up in extreme london poverty. No food to eat (except free school dinners), donated second hand school uniform and shoes that didn’t fit with holes in them. She and her siblings had to pinch fruit and veg from local allotments for food. She lives a modest lifestyle now in her 60’s having worked hard all her life and managed to purchase her own home all by herself. She’s not wealthy by any stretch but she feels lucky and grateful. She is a story of success I feel. To an outsider she may not look like it though.

[theleafandnotthetree]

@Pollaidh

Please be careful not to over-emphasise the impact of hard work. Yes, we should definitely encourage them to work hard at school, but when children are brought up believing only hard work = success, then some of them start to believe it's poor people's own fault they're poor, because they 'don't work hard enough'.

The reality is - and I volunteer with disadvantaged but clever teenagers - that it takes hard work AND luck, and that luck is in short supply in some families.

Sometimes the luck is being born into a rich family, but it can also be having a teacher take an interest in you in your really low-attainment school, or being spotted for the kind of programme I volunteer with.

For some kids though, the really poor kids in terrible home circumstances, or those caring for disabled parents, or looking after hordes of siblings, however clever they are, however hard they work, it will always be like climbing Everest without oxygen.

I agree, it's much more nuanced than just hard work = success. I always emphasise to mine how predominately LUCKY they/we are, to be born into a developed country with a safety net at this time in human history, to a family with a reasonable income, where my education was paid for by the State (well, by my fellow citizens) and there's largely will be too. And where they are healthy and have lots of people to love and support them. Some people, maybe even most people are starting from a different place and no matter how hard they work will also need a measure of the kind of luck they are just born with to do well or just ok in life. And of course I also remind them that success looks like something different for everyone and that ultimately, it is the quality of the human relationships which are the most important thing

[fishonabicycle]

She will just have to learn that different people have different lifestyles! My son had friends with huge houses and others with small ones.

[Middersweekly]

My 4DC aged 18,16,14 and 9 all had varied upbringings. When we had DC’s 1&2 we were definitely in the ‘poor’ bracket (not quite breadline but not far off as DC always had food on the table and clothes in their back). By DD4 that had turned around and we were in the middle class bracket. DD4 never really had to experience poverty and DD3 doesn’t really remember much about not having much. They all have friends on wildly different ends of the poverty-wealth spectrum, some in very small apartments living frugally and some in huge villas with their own swimming pools and bags of disposable income. They know that we are average. They would never say anything to their friends re-homes, holidays or possessions. I’ve tried to instill the value of money from the get go with all of them. We live modestly. No wild luxuries. DC know we’ve had to work hard for this modest lifestyle and are grateful for it. The older 2 especially have seen how hard work has enabled their current lifestyle. I think it’s important for children to understand what real poverty means.

[expatinspain]

I haven't read the entire thread, so apologies if I'm repeating what has been said already. The problem these days is that kids are bombarded with shallow, materialistic content online and even if they don't have a phone, they'll have friends who do or who are already picking it up from their older brothers and sisters. The Insta world they live in now is all about façade, opulence, materialism, narcissism etc and it takes a real individual to take a stand against that and most kids are not individuals, they want to fit in with their peer group. I think you have to keep talking to her, try to keep her grounded in reality and ignore some of the stupid comments she comes out with or you'll end up feeling hurt by her selfishness and lack of gratitude for what she has. She'll grow out of it. Kids are selfish and influenced by their peers. It's always been that way, the only difference is that years ago they didn't have the social media/tik tok influence that they do now.

[Remaker]

My kids haven’t ever been too worried about comparisons with others but they were aware that some friends lived in much bigger houses than ours and had nicer cars etc. But since starting secondary school at a public selective (Australian equivalent of a grammar) they feel extremely privileged to live in a modest sized house in a nice suburb. They’ve seen many of their friends don’t live in nice areas, can’t afford to go on holidays etc. It has made them more aware of money so they will share food with a friend who has no money for lunch or will make sure their group goes out somewhere cheap/free so everyone can join in. DD always asks if we can give her friend a lift home from sport as her family don’t have a car and she wouldn’t be able to play evening games as it’s too late to travel home alone on the train. She couldn’t care less that our car isn’t fancy.

Our neighbours basically live in an identical house to ours but send their kids to very expensive private schools. Kids are too embarrassed to bring their friends home, keep nagging for a better car as they hate being seen in the family car. They’re old enough to work part time but won’t because none of their friends do, so why should they.

We’ve always been open with our kids that most people have to make choices about finances. If we have a big house we couldn’t afford holidays. If they went to private schools they couldn’t play all the sports they do now. And I remind them how fortunate they are to have food on the table and a warm bed. I’m sure that barely penetrates the teenage brain but I keep trying!

[YouWereGr8InLittleMenstruators]

OP, I think previous posters who have focused on your family's sense of security and having enough to live comfortably while loving each other are so right. Being contented with enough is such an important lesson and one which will hopefully steer humanity away from a cliff edge.
My DC are a bit worried we are poor, but only because their particular friends (in quite a mixed suburban primary) come from much better off families. A couple of DC's friends have remarked on the size of our small house, and they occasionally come home from their friends' houses itching with comparison.
DP and I are professionals in the public sector, fairly low paid. Working with vulnerable groups and being politically active helps with context, the DC hear us discuss issues in society impacting our work, so realise there are those far worse off. We try to keep consumption and travel to a minimum on environmental grounds, so holiday in the UK and always buy second hand clothing, tech, furniture, appliances, toys etc. As they've grown older, the DC now understand that lifestyle can be informed by values, and just because you have the means to acquire possessions, it doesn't mean you have to or necessarily should. Instead, they know we are debt free, are able to save, and help us choose which charitable causes to support.

[HmmmmmmInteresting]

@BabyofMine

The fact she’s making it known to you is proof she’s doesn’t really believe it.

I grew up poor surrounded by poor friends and we knew it. We would never have dared say anything that might make our parents feel bad about it because we knew how hard they worked, what things had befallen on them to get there, etc, and whilst we might secretly have dreamed of finding out we were suddenly rich, we would have been mortified if we made our parents ashamed.

I agree