Daughter thinks we are poor

[MollysMummy2010]

This is no way a stealth brag as I know I am reasonably lucky.

Between me and DH we earn £90k per year but we live in London and poor choices in our youth mean we rent. My 9 year old DD has a small bedroom but has lived in the same place all her life. She has (pre Covid) had all the opportunities her friends have had re clubs, activities etc and I don't think she is aware that we rent rather then own our home.

Some of her friends live in huge houses and she seems to resent us for the fact that we don't. I try to teach her the value of money, and also, that as there are only three of us, how much space to we really need?

I am worried she will be embarrassed but don't want her to be!
What do I do?

@MyNameForToday1980 are you not at all tempted to move? On those salaries you could easily afford to buy somewhere in most of England (including the SE and parts of London). We're 90mins from London by train and have a detached 5 bed in a nice area for under £600k.

@BabyofMine

The fact she’s making it known to you is proof she’s doesn’t really believe it.

I grew up poor surrounded by poor friends and we knew it. We would never have dared say anything that might make our parents feel bad about it because we knew how hard they worked, what things had befallen on them to get there, etc, and whilst we might secretly have dreamed of finding out we were suddenly rich, we would have been mortified if we made our parents ashamed.

This ^^

Perception is wealth is relative. If you live in an area or go to a school where everyone else is more visibly wealthy, then yes, you will feel poorer in comparison even though in the next street in London, you are the richest person by a mile.

From your OP...

Some of her friends live in huge houses and she seems to resent us for the fact that we don't.

And also...

I am worried she will be embarrassed but don't want her to be!
What do I do?

What you do is teach her the obvious....that living in a small house is not embarrassing. I mean why would it be?

I'm not having a dig OP but it sounds like you are a little embarrassed about it and maybe she's picked up on that?

Otherwise I can't imagine why you 'wouldn't want her to be'? Because personally I'd roll my eyes at my 9 year old, tell her the grass is always greener and get on with my day.

It’s because of her peer group. Some PPs are being a bit tough on her. She’s only 9 and of course she can see the comparison between her situation and her peer group. And that won’t just come from her own observations: those 9 year old girls will be commenting on it, some of them nastily.

It would be better for her to have a more diverse friendship group.

Can you move?

I don’t say that idly. I don’t think it’s good for her to spend all her school years as the least privileged in a ghetto of privilege.

She might have designs on some swanky new airpods or such, so, you need to have 'the conversation'.

'Yes, Saffy, we're piss poor. Everything is on credit, we're in debt up to our eyeballs thanks to our failure to use adequate contraception. At night when you're asleep, I go skip-diving behind Waitrose and your father is a washing-line bandit. That's how we feed and clothe you. And no, you're not getting a pony'.

This strategy does work. I didn't realise my father was the 8th Earl of Winchester until I was 21...

My nana used to say ' much wants more' which translated means the more some people have the more they want.

I'd have a good think about where this attitude has come from and maybe your attitude towards indulging her. That isn't a criticism of your child, but I think sometimes as parents we focus too much on what kids want instead of what they need.

I was brought up in a very, poor and did the classic wanting my dc to have everything I didnt. It caused a lot of resentment from my dd, because she wanted the moon and the stars that went with it. She was never happy. Interestingly my dp who grew up getting everything he wanted was very against it as he'd seen the attitude from siblings and didn't want our dc raised the same way. I finally clicked and changed my way of doing things when dd was around 11. It did her a massive favour.

I hear you. My 7 year old daughter is besties with a girl from a very well off hard working family. The mum has a high flying legal role, is very pretty, glamourous , fun, a very large gorgeous house and has lots of help and support. Dad successful businessman. We ourselves live in an ok house in a nice area. I get so fed up hearing the constant comparisons. Xx

I think to a certain extent it is part and parcel of living in an area like London, the super wealthy, mixed in with the regular doing well, and then people in poverty, all mixed in a small area, the super wealthy have the very best, the ones like yourself who aren't really considered wealthy- but would outside of London! Seem to live a more normal life, and the poor, well they'll feel pretty ostracised from the opportunity around them.

I think the thing is here that you need to help her to understand where she sits in society, she may not have the big house like her friends,
But she does have a mum and dad who love her very much, a home that is warm, with cupboards and fridge stocked up. She is also lucky enough to have extra things to enjoy, like clubs, trinkets etc.

There are many in this country who are relying on help to feed their families, homelessness is an issue, poor quality housing, there are so many things that are different to the life she leads for the less fortunate.

Maybe sit with her and make a little shopping list, to do shopping for the food bank, even if its a fiver. It'll give her a glimpse into the things she takes for granted that many people don't have access to.

Also donating unrequired items to charity shops is an excellent way of helping the community, and opening up conversation opportunities with your daughter.

My dd would have got pretty short shrift for comments like that by that age. Yes, it's hard when other people have bigger houses and nicer stuff, but your dd is incredibly privileged to have what she has, and you need to teach her not to take that for granted. A few lessons in gratitude and perspective are needed.

I can’t be the only thinking “great she thinks you are poor, that should head off a lot of requests!”

Seriously though, it’s a good time to press the ‘we can anything, but we can’t have everything “ lesson. You could run yourself broke to have a house, but you’ve chosen to spend money in a different way.

I thought my parents were poor at that age, because we used to have what they called ‘poor week’. It was when the stars aligned that the outgoing took all of of the income for the period. In reality, it was a blip on the radar, and my mom kept us in our house on a single income (in the ‘80s) and we were a lot better off than most.

I learned great lessons during that time that have served me well into adulthood.

[quote KeyboardWorriers]@MyNameForToday1980 are you not at all tempted to move? On those salaries you could easily afford to buy somewhere in most of England (including the SE and parts of London). We're 90mins from London by train and have a detached 5 bed in a nice area for under £600k.[/quote]
We're very tempted to move. The only thing holding us back is that DD is settled in school, and if we're going to move her, we only want to do it once... So we need to be super sure of where we end up (and London is all I know, really).

I think it must be hard for children to understand why some people have so much more than others. It is difficult to explain as it doesn't make sense when you think about it. I think reminding her how lucky you all are to have each other, a nice home in your city of choice and whatever else you have, is the way to go.

@TableFlowerss have you ever tried to buy a flat in London? Sold our 2 bed flat in Streatham for £550k a couple years ago. £60k deposit would only get you 10% down & half a million in mortgage and our second bedroom was very small. Streatham is not a particularly special area!! You can easily pay £300 a month just on travel cards for a couple.

@KeyboardWorriers would you/do you enjoy a 3 hour round trip commute?! I know lots of people do it but now DH and I are permanently WFH, I think it’s even more bonkers than I thought it was before. I literally wouldn’t see DC or DH during the week if I did that!

@Port1aCastis Housing in the UK is particularly small & of bad quality. I’m surprised not everyone seems aware of this. Why do you think someone must’ve told her to think this? Perhaps she feels more comfortable in a spacious house, it’s not that strange. What is strange though, is the whole ‘patriotic’ denial of the low standard of our housing stock.

This isn't a new thing – we were "relatively" poor growing up, because our friends were much wealthier. But we all had our own rooms (albeit all tiny box rooms), a garden, and never starved, and my mother owned the house. (It's now worth over £450k, so whilst not loaded, it's certainly well above the national average). It was worse for my brothers as they went to private school on scholarships, meaning they were surrounded by insanely wealthy people with massive homes, second homes, fancy cars. We didn't even have a car. I know one brother especially was very embarrassed about our home, and never ever had people over. He's grown into a man with a really negative mindset, always feeling hard done by. He also racked up huge debts when he got to an age to be able to do so, in an attempt to keep up with the others. As did my other brother, but to a lesser extent.
So, do tread carefully.

My 10yo son thinks we are poor because we don't have a boat, like his friend does. His friend's father is much older than us, meaning he benefited from the era when buying property was easier, and got gifted money from his mother. My son's friends mother also inherited hundreds of thousands. So, yes, they are very comfortable, compared to us.

Comparison is the thief of joy.
I've shown my son videos on YouTube of genuinely poor people. Still, he feels like we are poor.

I get him to write in a Gratitude Journal. I think it's helping.

We're very tempted to move. The only thing holding us back is that DD is settled in school, and if we're going to move her, we only want to do it once... So we need to be super sure of where we end up (and London is all I know, really).

Yes, if you move out of London, you may be priced out forever.

I have no idea if dd or Ds thought we were poor or rich growing up till we were watching a film set in the 70s in a northern town and they were laughing at how people used to live and I pointed out it was set in my home town and the house I lived in when I was quite young was very similar to the ones on screen. Including the outside toilet

Well, I really don’t like the idea of teaching entitled children there are children in worse conditions than them because that, rather than helping them, makes them feel even more superior.

It is my idea that if you want a considerate child who doesn’t feel worse off than other children you need to teach them that you are NOT what you own, that your life is not measured by the amount of money or belongings that you have BUT this is not taught with words, it is taught with your actions and example:

Say no when needed and say why not. Kids need to learn the world doesn’t come to an end if they don’t get their way.

Surround them with people from very varied backgrounds and treat everyone the same, from the poor to the rich. If they learn to value people for who they are rather than what they own they set themselves free, they have nothing to prove, no one to impress.

Let them work for what they want, this improves their skills and increased their confidence BUT... don’t over pay them, they need to learn the value of money.

Show them you can live a rich life even with a small disposable income. Because it is possible if you take the right decisions regularly to help you free time and resources to do those nice things you like or enjoy which are not strictly necessary.

OP has a chance with talking to her 9 year old but I doubt you can get a teenager to acknowledge how fortunate they are in comparison to people using food banks if their friends' parents are coining it.

They just have to be let loose into the world as adults and learn the hard way that money does not grow on trees and life is unfair.

I think it's a bit patronising for all the posters saying 'take the DC to a foodbank, volunteering etc'.

OP, as a child I was acutely aware that my family were not as well off as others. We lived in a small, messy house in a wealthy area. I walked past beautiful houses on the way to school, and was embarrassed when friends invited me to their homes for parties or play dates because I felt I could not reciprocate. I also sensed my parents embarrassment at not being able to reciprocate.

Similarly, we never went on exciting holidays and I was aware of a divide between myself and my classmates who went on foreign holidays, had big homes, had horses etc. We had none of these things, but my parents did make an effort to give us free or cheap fun days out, send us to Brownies etc.

I remember consoling a crying friend at primary school because she was embarrassed that she lived on a 'road' rather than an 'Avenue' like everyone else. I felt the second-hand shame because I was in the same position.

I love my parents and even as a child I knew they worked really hard for us. I remember writing in my diary at about age 7 that life was unfair and that I knew we did not have as much money as other people - and that's a painful thing to realise when you are young!

Please do cut your child some slack. It's only when we mature that we realise material things are not everything but when you are a child, it is possible to feel shame when you compare your life with that of your friends/others. And you realise you and your parents can't do anything about it - that's hard.

She’s 9. It’s just normal development to start to notice her relative position in the world. There’s no need for a big intervention, or to sign her up to work in a soup kitchen. It’s a very normal phase and it passes.

At that age my dd decided she was mega rich when she realised some of her friends families rented and didn’t own cars. Until we were plunged into dire poverty by the discovery of another friend’s dedicated cinema room.

Just listen without taking any of it personally. I think that encouraging a good work ethic, learning to budget and gently encouraging her growing social awareness is all that’s really required.

Please do cut your child some slack. It's only when we mature that we realise material things are not everything but when you are a child, it is possible to feel shame when you compare your life with that of your friends/others. And you realise you and your parents can't do anything about it - that's hard.

If I had the choice (and OP may not have the choice), I would not choose to live somewhere or send my dcs to a school where my dcs would be the least wealthy. It is not ideal for a child to be constantly reminded that they live in circumstances which are perceived to be inferior to their peers.

@blueshoes

Please do cut your child some slack. It's only when we mature that we realise material things are not everything but when you are a child, it is possible to feel shame when you compare your life with that of your friends/others. And you realise you and your parents can't do anything about it - that's hard.

If I had the choice (and OP may not have the choice), I would not choose to live somewhere or send my dcs to a school where my dcs would be the least wealthy. It is not ideal for a child to be constantly reminded that they live in circumstances which are perceived to be inferior to their peers.

I agree to some extent @blueshoes - my heart ached sometimes visiting friends in their gated communities or just walking past fancy houses we would never live in or restaurants that I knew my family would never eat at. But it did create a sort of sense of aspiration in us - we knew what was there and what we could achieve through hard work.

It probably did contribute to making me a very cynical (and somewhat bitter) person though!