Daughter thinks we are poor

[MollysMummy2010]

This is no way a stealth brag as I know I am reasonably lucky.

Between me and DH we earn £90k per year but we live in London and poor choices in our youth mean we rent. My 9 year old DD has a small bedroom but has lived in the same place all her life. She has (pre Covid) had all the opportunities her friends have had re clubs, activities etc and I don't think she is aware that we rent rather then own our home.

Some of her friends live in huge houses and she seems to resent us for the fact that we don't. I try to teach her the value of money, and also, that as there are only three of us, how much space to we really need?

I am worried she will be embarrassed but don't want her to be!
What do I do?

On 90k a year I would move somewhere she won’t feel like this anymore, even if it’s a cheaper rental area where you can get a bigger property for less.

God, I wouldn't! I would teach her some economics and also that self esteem should not depend on being the richest person in the room.

My DS probably thinks we're poor because I often say "I'm not paying £X for that. It is not worth £X." I won't be wasting money on tat in case he grows up feeling deprived - he will learn nothing good from that.

My parents did a great job of somehow teaching us reverse snobbery when we were young. I don't really know how they did it, and when I mentioned it as an adult, they denied it, but certainly both my brother and I thought the same.

We grew up comfortably in the middle. Nice semi-detached house, nice area, summer holiday self catering in Britain as children, then camping in France through our teenage years. We played out on the street and down the nearby field at primary age.

Many of our friends (through school and church) lived in massive houses on a big estate (where all the footballers lived).

We felt a bit sorry for them because they couldn't play on the road all the time with hoards of other kids, they didn't see a neighbour from one week to the next, and had to be driven everywhere rather than having the freedom to travel alone on the bus and train like us. They were also constrained on holiday by having to spend stuck time in airports and being on time for meals in hotels, having to be quiet in the evenings because of other guests. Their poor parents had to spend loads of time cleaning and maintaining the big garden, or having strangers in to do it.

These thoughts can only have come from our parents and they didn't affect the real friendships we had, many of which continue decades later. But we genuinely did think we had the better deal, and never thought they wouldn't want to come to play with us or sleep over, or...

I can remember showing off second hand bargains my mum had got and saying how you got unique clothes that way because everything in the shops tended to look the same. I completely bought into the narrative and was very happy with my station in life (although I would have liked a horse or two!)

"The numbers are curious though, you appear to live quite frugally so with those earnings how come you haven’t bought? You don’t indicate you’re close to and the fact you’d need to finance a car says no savings and can’t afford to buy a decent one up front."

Where on earth have you got that they "live quite frugally"? The OP said her and her DH made poor choices which would indicate debt or poor credit maybe? It's not rocket science is it, and especially with the high rents in London it's pretty hard to "live frugally" there.

"I"m desperate for a trip to India with dd for this very reason. Kids have no idea."

To show her all the poor people? Wow. All the posters saying take her to the foodbank too. You know there are other things you can do to educate your kids without using those less fortunate as "props".

@ViceLikeBlip

I tried to explain to my kids the other day that we're absolutely not poor, and in fact we're lucky and should be grateful for how much we have (I mean, we're not mumsnet 200k-a-year-plus-bonuses wealthy! But we own a nice big house in an area where many people don't, and two parents working part time earn 45k between us)

Long story short - my kids now keep telling everyone they meet that we're really rich 🤦‍♀️

That made me laugh .

I showed this to my children when it came out but it shows bedrooms of children from around the world. It can be an eye opener for children to compare themselves not just with their peers

justsomething.co/where-children-sleep-20-powerful-photos-of-kids-bedrooms-from-around-the-world/

We also made the children watch bits of Rich House, Poor House to see the wealth disparity in this country.

As a simple maths lesson take an average teacher salary from your area and then show your child what mortgage they would get, do a simple 3 times or 4 times the salary for ease or maths, find a house on Rightmove which would tell you the monthly mortgage payments at the bottom of the screen, then tell them all the bills people have to pay such as council tax, water, broadband, insurance etc. Plus furniture in the house, how much a bed costs etc. I think the earlier children understand how and where money gets spent, the better.

And my brother and I were teased for being 'rich' at school (we weren't, just comfortable living in a detached house with company car!) So it cuts both ways

Great to hear you're so grounded op, say it to her like you laid it out in your op. I used to go horse riding. We were probably middle everything but I went in a place where they offered me extra lessons etc because they saw us as poor which I was GOBSMACKED about!! Plus when I had kids and for a few years we were hand to mouth, 1 month away from eviction arrears in everything I laughed about it and it reiterated to me just how well off my family were. There are huge differences out there but as I said you sound like you wont steer her wrong

Dd was very upset when I bought a 4 bed semi as apparrntly now I have a new job. ( average wage) I can afford a big house in the country. She got a stern word from me. The entitlement is astounding. I blame social media.
I went to private school and was the poor kid but I'm glad as now i'm very anti label and a bit of a socialist....i'd hate to be money obsessed.

The worlds is so shallow
We do not need a large home
Or question why or the straight facts of what you find important for your family.
We are all individual. We do not follow we lead by our own ideas and needs.
We can all donate and share a child forgets and life carries on in " there" world.

Whatever your income people judge or presume.

We went through this with our youngest dd. We own a house in one of the most expensive cities in the country (luck, not judgement) but it is ex social housing. DD went to a very middle class affluent primary school where most of her friends lived in massive Edwardian terraces or big detached houses and she had a real phase of thinking we were somehow less than them. When she got to secondary, which is much more diverse and covers a large area of social housing and deprivation, she suddenly realised how incredibly fortunate she is and was silenced pretty quickly. We are by no means well off and both work in public sector and charity roles, so that helps. It's such a grabby society we live in, that it's just really hard

My DD is similar OP. I’m a professional on what I consider to be good pay, but I’m a single parent and we have a flat not a house. All DD’s friends have big houses, even where they’re separated the mums have been able to keep the big house. Several of them are well-off, multiple foreign holidays (in normal times), designer stuff, one in particular has all the material things you could dream of.

DD is constantly bringing up how we can’t afford this stuff and “x has this, x has that, x is getting the other”. And we’re constantly having this conversation about how we’re not actually poor, some people genuinely are and it’s unfair how unequal society is. I do agree with her that it’s hard seeing her friends have so much, but I also point out it could be harder for them when they’re older as they’ve grown up expecting all this.

I do believe that as I grew up in a similar situation, and even in middle age I still appreciate being able to buy stuff and feel lucky to have my own place. My DD might not feel lucky but I’m actually glad we live in a block of flats with lots of other non-rich people all around so she’s not growing up in a bubble.

It is hard for kids to realise how unequal things are though.

@Goldieloxx

And my brother and I were teased for being 'rich' at school (we weren't, just comfortable living in a detached house with company car!) So it cuts both ways

True. I was teased at state school for being "posh" ... And then teased at private school for being poor (we had a huge house but I didn't have a pool or a pony and therefore was pitiable)

I didn't really understand or think about money at state school, but I guess other children were aware their houses were smaller than mine and why (I was a bit of a head in the clouds type of child) . I thought the girls at private school were ridiculous for caring about things like where clothes came from /how expensive people's furniture and light fittings were.

I grew up poor and it was blatantly obvious. I have worked really hard for what I now have and nothing has been handed to me on a plate or inherited money etc so it's down to graft.

Show her poor - food banks and clothing donations, some children live in overcrowded homes with small income and poor chance at life.

You earn £90,000 between you so most definitely not poor - let her know how much of the world lives on so little

Kids get odd ideas about money so I wouldn't pay too much heed. We spoke with 'posh' accents and lived in a relatively big house with bells to ring for (nonexistent) servants so I thought we were rich as did all my classmates. In fact my parents were scrimping and saving to get by and our big house was a private rental that my parents got cheap because my dad was renovating it for the owner.

What's more important is that she fits in at schools- does she? I was unhappy at my comprehensive school because my posh accent didn't fit in with the kids around me. Than I was unhappy at home because my parents kept correcting and belittling the local accent I picked up at school. Conversely my mum came from a poor immigrant family and went to a very grand convent school where she was bullied (by staff not students) for being a scholarship girl. Our two experiences have taught me that it's helpful to attend a school where you can fit in. Once you feel accepted it's easier to forge your own path and develop your own style.

Everything is relative OP. You need to find some friends in council flats.

We often feel like the poor relations too, although we have a similar joint income to you with three of us. People have larger houses, more expensive cars (though they could be leased) and seem to be on holiday all the time. A work colleague had a £2 million house in the Surrey Hills with a tennis court and indoor swimming pool.

But of course we are very privileged and I totally agree with this: Our society is so materialistic and disposable it’s appalling. The oneupmanship is vile

I grew up in a one person earning household. We always had plenty of food on the table but no holidays abroad, I grew up before phones were a crazy and got a Nokia when I was 16. My dad worked all hours and still had time for us when he came home knackered. Both my parents wanted is to get an education and succeed and 3 out of the 4 of us have. Most of us were acutely aware of the sacrifice ls our parents made and how hard my dad worked. The one of us that would compare out situation with her wealthier friends always felt hard done by, these feelings have carried on into adulthood. She still feels that my dad is a failure because he can't provide her with a deposit for a house,doesn't matter that she doesn't earn enough to pay a mortgage and upkeep of a home because she pissed about when she should have been working hard. Her work ethic has always been piss poor and she has a woe is me attitude.

She is 8 and needs some perspective but that age your social life idea defined by what you see at school and she is surrounded by wealthier kids. I grew up in an area where there were a lot of families worse off than us and things were different before social media really took off. You didn't see how the other half lived before so for kids like me there really were no direct comparisons.

Keep reinforcing that you are doing your best for her and it isn't nice to be told that your best isn't good enough, as she gets older encourage her to get a part time job and become more responsible for herself by paying her phone bill etc. At the moment she is young and her perspective is skewed by what she sees, keep listening and encouraging her to budget her pocket money (if she gets some) and letting her know that their are kids worse off than her.

@HartstonesMustard

I showed this to my children when it came out but it shows bedrooms of children from around the world. It can be an eye opener for children to compare themselves not just with their peers

justsomething.co/where-children-sleep-20-powerful-photos-of-kids-bedrooms-from-around-the-world/

We also made the children watch bits of Rich House, Poor House to see the wealth disparity in this country.

As a simple maths lesson take an average teacher salary from your area and then show your child what mortgage they would get, do a simple 3 times or 4 times the salary for ease or maths, find a house on Rightmove which would tell you the monthly mortgage payments at the bottom of the screen, then tell them all the bills people have to pay such as council tax, water, broadband, insurance etc. Plus furniture in the house, how much a bed costs etc. I think the earlier children understand how and where money gets spent, the better.

My daughters school did something song those lines. If IIRC they had to make a list of what they wanted in their life - e.g. what sort of house / car. They were then all allocated a job (with I guess it's average salary) and they saw the gap between what they wanted and what they could get.

*there are kids

The issue here is the op and her husband live in a rented small two bed flat that they’ve lived in for years, and the op says they drive an old car because to get anything better they’d need finance, which says no savings. Which is all completely at odds of earning 90k a year.

So something is adrift in the two sets of circumstances.

It’s an Insta/TikTok fuelled thing. My GDG went through a phase of demanding to know why she didn’t have a walk in closet or a pool?!
She’ll get over it.

Show her this

www.gapminder.org/videos/using-photos-as-data-to-understand-how-people-live/

Honestly it's brilliant

My family members told stories about food rationing after WW2, very few new clothes, no central heating & no treats. We were always made to be grateful for what we had.

You can find info about weekly allowances for food during ration times

We have the opposite problem.

My kids either think we are millionaires or have a magic money tree in the garden 😂

@RoseMartha

I have 13, 14 year olds with this attitude one with ASD.

Always trying to make me feel ashamed that we dont live in a house anymore. (We lived in a modest house until I divorced my abusive ex). They feel the flat is beneath them and would not choose to invite friends over who would see where we live. Instead when we are at family members house they will take pictures and pass it off as their home on SM.

They think I should get a better job to give them the lifestyle they think they deserve. They feel I should save really hard to buy a four bed solid 1920-1930's type detached house with large garden.

They also want to leave as soon as they are 18 for something better that they are convinced they will be able to afford. I have explained about bills etc. I think they think I am making it up about how many bills etc.

We havent got a lot that is true. But they have clothes and shoes and food etc and dont go to bed hungry. (I will go without if needed when if they need something). They have smart phones but despise me because they feel they deserve iphones. In normal times we go away for a short uk break once a year which also is not enough they tell me.

They dont want to know or care about people and teens who are living below the breadline.

I have watched documentaries with them about poor families here and abroad and they did get it at the time. But as it doesnt effect them they dont care now.

No answers OP but sympathise.

Ouch that must be hard Rose they will learn a hard lesson when they reach 18 then. My DS2 once thought we were poor because someone at his school received a £3k bike for Christmas and £2k in cash supposedly. There was also a boy who’s parents won the lottery too, so it depends what they’re comparing against.

denver totally agree, by all means talk about Food Banks but please don't suggest 'going to a Food Bank to observe what happens' .

I volunteer at a FB and a parent actually asked if his DS could come and 'watch' as the food he had kindly donated was given out ..... do people really think that would be acceptable?

We do offer to show small groups round, Brownies etc or groups that have made donations but obviously out of hours when the FB is closed.