To want to shout F off to men perving over my teenage daughter

[Tuesdaysintheazores]

Literally on a walk to the shops, the amount who openly stare and gawp, I'm talking men in their 30s ish and older not teenagers. Gives me the rage

A genuine question for chloeb8 - just because you haven't, I assume, had a similar experience or similar number of men on your way to the shops, why did you dismiss the OP's OP?

Happened all the time to my daughters from about age 13. Usually much older middle aged men. Disgusting.

I used to get it walking home in my school uniform, clearly a child. My daughter was once stood at the bus stop when a group of men slowed down their car and one started filming from the back window, shouting stuff to her like "bend over" and "show me how you take it". I was absolutely livid but she didn't get the plate as she was too upset.

My point is just that you're going to have to spend a lot of time shouting at a lot of men if you want them to stop "perving".

Yeah, better to just let them perv over teenagers and say nothing. They won't change will they? So why bother. In fact, why bother addressing any injustice, inappropriateness, unfairness in the world? Better that us women just know our place, which is to be objectified in whatever way the menz feel is best.

Secondly, why on Earth have you put perving in quotation marks? Do you think a 30 something man gawping at a female isn't perving?

@chloeb8

Are you usually so dismissive and unbelieving if someone experiences something you haven't?

Have you changed your attitude now that dozens of women have said they share the exact same experience as OP?

It would be refreshing if someone who said they didn't believe something had happened said sorry and that they simply didn't realise and the snark was unwarranted.

11/12 I would say this starts for most girls and it's a mixture of embarrassing, horrifying, scary and depressing. And really common.

Yanbu. I have the impression right now as well that men are being even more pervy and leering because of lockdown, it's like they haven't seen women/girls for ages.

I was about 11-12 when I threatened to write "my face is up here" on my top because of the bus driver that did the school route.

Depressing that it hasn't changed since then.

This happens all the time. Have walked behind my DD and a friend through large village and grown men openly state, with that slimy grin. From 10/11. Not in skimpy clothing or anything that might draw attention. Makes my flesh crawl.

@Peanutbuttercupisyum

Yep. I remember being a teenager and being stared at walking my dog, in my school uniform, all they time! The thing is, as a teenage girl I didn’t ‘get it’ for the pervy, initimidating, objectification it obviously was and felt flattered. As a grown up you deal with it if need be, as a teenager it’s harder to.

I get that, I too was flattered.

Op, how does your daughter feel about it?

@N0tfinished

Does anyone else feel really torn about the current fashion of teens wearing tight athletic leggings with cropped tops?

I'm constantly swerving between 'they should be able to wear what they want' and 'they should cover up a bit'. They just look so vulnerable and I imagine men perving over their bums. I'd say 90% of teen girls where I live wear leggings with waist length sweatshirts.

I remember a discussion with women colleagues at a pub in the 90s. They were all 10+ years older than me & started blaming young women in general & what they wore, for the male attention young women got.

I pointed out that the fashion for young men just then was skin tight lycra, & some of them were fit & good-looking, yet I somehow managed to resist the urge to ogle them & run a hand up a toned lycra-clad leg; & if I could resist behaving badly to an attractive young person, so could men.

They tittered & told me I was so funny. I was serious.

And yes, OP, I believe you & wonder who the people are who suggest that (a) it never happened or (b) it's alright for men to do this. I got a disgusting suggestion shouted at me from a building site when I was a young teenager, followed by mocking laughter, & I remember going into a shop with my father where the guy behind the counter never took his eyes off my tiny teenage bust the whole time my father was talking to him.

Say loud enough but non-challenging: Staring perv at nine o’clock. Hopefully, those near by will look in that direction and the guy will feel some shame.

I have had this experience walking down the street with DD 12 and she was yelled at from a car. On foot, I would have felt concerned ti reply or say something. Whenever I have said something the men have mocked me.
It’s awful and I’m pleased age has made me invisible now.

My DDs had this from a young age including when they were in school uniform so deff 16 or younger as the school didn't have a 6th form. It's really creepy and threatening.
My DDs have big boobs, long hair and are very slim. I don't know if that means they get more creeps being obnoxious than others or not. I don't think I got as much attention as they did as teens but it's hard to remember.

I've wanted to confront men in the past but my DDs didn't want me too.

It makes my blood boil.

I'd hope some of the bastards wouldn't do it if they knew how it effects some women but I suspect many wouldn't actually care.
There have been threads on here where a lot of women have said they like getting cat calls 🤮🤮🤮

@MedusasBadHairDay

I was about 11-12 when I threatened to write "my face is up here" on my top because of the bus driver that did the school route.

Depressing that it hasn't changed since then.

Tempting but a bad idea. I actually saw a woman with a t-shirt with that written on and do you know what, instinctively I looked at it (when normally, I don't go round staring at other women's breasts, you'll be pleased to know). The fact there is writing or an interesting pattern on my chest area means people are more likely to look than they otherwise would be. Not just "perving" but curiosity.

This vile behaviour has been going on for years, unfortunately.
I recall it even when I was in my school uniform. I do remember one time being out with friends waiting to get a bus and a lovely older man who disapproved of this crap told the men to F off and that we look to be the same age as his daughters.

My DM used to brag about it when she saw this happening to me

@N0tfinished

Does anyone else feel really torn about the current fashion of teens wearing tight athletic leggings with cropped tops?

I'm constantly swerving between 'they should be able to wear what they want' and 'they should cover up a bit'. They just look so vulnerable and I imagine men perving over their bums. I'd say 90% of teen girls where I live wear leggings with waist length sweatshirts.

No.

The answer to male violence and control is not to put women under curfew and shroud them. This is just an extension of the 'but she wore short skirts' argument - its victim blaming.

The problem is men and men's behaviour. the only thing women can do is to refuse to tolerate and accept it and not excuse it when its men in their own group.

It happened to us, it will happen to them, it will happen to their daughters. I still feel icky after a very camp waiter picked out my 9 year old boy as "oh what a pretty boy", so boys are not immune.

First time this happened to DD when I was with her, she was 12. I remember because as I walked past I said to him "she's twelve"
I honestly think some dirty perverts wouldn't care or perhaps be even turned on by that! They are absolutely disgusting.

Does anyone else feel really torn about the current fashion of teens wearing tight athletic leggings with cropped tops?I'm constantly swerving between 'they should be able to wear what they want' and 'they should cover up a bit'. They just look so vulnerable and I imagine men perving over their bums. I'd say 90% of teen girls where I live wear leggings with waist length sweatshirts

Not remotely torn. Girls should be able to dress as they please. Not forced to cover up and not wear anything that may reveal their shapes because some weirdo paedo men will perv. The men are the issue. Every single time.

I remember being gawped at by men passing in cars from the age of 12. It lessened when I started wearing trousers to school.

I have memories of my dad being one of those gawpers; I'm can't remember who at in terms of age but definitely those he saw from a distance and thought perhaps looked attractive he'd go out of his way to watch them as he drove past. Made me so uncomfortable and because of that and subsequent male attention I purposely wore very tomboyish clothes in my early teens.

I have a vivid memory of being at the trafford centre with my older sister (16 at the time) and mum and bumping into my sisters friend and her parents. The dad spent the whole time just openly staring at my sisters chest; nobody but me seemed to notice (conversation was between the mums, sister and her friend). I wish I had the courage to speak up at the time, fucking perv.

Years ago I actually had to stand in front of my then 15 year old daughter with my arms folded. This was in a very public place. A drunk guy decided he wanted to chat her up. I kindly informed him he would need to get past me first and it wouldn't end well for him. It is absolutely ridiculous what young women put up with. Men also don't seem to realise the fear it can instill, though I suspect some of them do..... I can assure you, if he'd have went near her, I'd be doing jail time.

@Lb1204

Happened to me all the time from the age of 12. I very clearly remember the first time it happened. You're a better mum than mine was, mine used to tut at me as if it was my fault...your daughter is lucky to have you on her side OP

Same, 12 when it started. My "mother" never tutted at or blamed me, but she would act as if I should be flattered . Makes me feel sick now when I think about it.

Anyway, OP I'd tell them to F off as long as it doesn't upset DD.

YANBU. Sad that it’s so commonplace for men to act like this. I honestly wonder if they have no shame.

This happened to me regularly from about the age of 9(suffered with precocious puberty, which obviously lead to me having a women's body at a very young age), I remember clearly one day, my mum shouting at a worker that I was 9 after he thought it was appropriate to shout out of his van window 'nice tits' even though I was clearly in dance school uniform with the schools name large on the back... That has stuck with me and its regularly discussed and brought up by my mother who felt like she was failing to protect me.

I have a 3yo now and I can tell you now I wont be keeping my mouth shut if I find her subjected to that kind of harassments.

My ex-husband used to get really annoyed by this. One of his few redeeming features. He once asked a man in Sainsbury's to stop leering at our 14 year old daughter. He was polite, but loud enough to be on the verge of shouting. Everyone turned to look at the man, including his wife. He tried to bluster, but ex-husband then asked him in what circumstances the bloke thought "perving at schoolgirls" was OK. The bloke couldn't get away fast enough.

He was a dick in many ways, but fiercely protective of the kids, bless him.