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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To want to shout F off to men perving over my teenage daughter

334 replies

Tuesdaysintheazores · 06/05/2021 13:02

Literally on a walk to the shops, the amount who openly stare and gawp, I'm talking men in their 30s ish and older not teenagers. Gives me the rage

OP posts:
Thisisworsethananticpated · 07/05/2021 06:54

It’s always been like this

I was a busty teen and the attention I got in my teens and especially school uniform was off the scale

It’s only now I am in my 40s I realise how Envy Angry it was

CaptainMarvelDanvers · 07/05/2021 06:55

I was a really awkward looking teen but I got the stares, the comments and I was followed around the supermarket once.

Dentistlakes · 07/05/2021 06:56

YANBU, it’s revolting behaviour and they should be ashamed.

TheWaif · 07/05/2021 07:10

I think I'd go with 'I got that on video, paedophile. See you on Facebook' and wave a phone at them.

OhWhyNot · 07/05/2021 07:24

Yanbu

It’s vile

I remember it happening to myself and I looked so young but a soon as I developed a bust it seemed I was fair game

Why anyone is questioning your post I don’t know there is not two sides to this issue

Cottonheadedninymuggins · 07/05/2021 07:39

I was a double d cup from 13. Sort of went from nothing to wahey overnight around 12 so yeah.... 12 to 18 were the worst years of male harassment definitely. Quite obviously wearing uniform almost all thet time too. Male teachers were just as bad.

Lessthanaballpark · 07/05/2021 07:46

The thing about the clothes. Wearing leggings and short top isn’t a sexy look IMO but even it was ...

Girls at that age are experimenting. They copy celebs. They are playing according to the rules set in our culture, that to be worth more as a female you need to look hot. They’re not dressing that way because they want to shag pervy middle aged guy on the street.

Grown men know this. They’re not stupid. They have, we all have, a responsibility to allow young girls grow into women at their own pace without treating them as if they’re prey.

999Alex · 07/05/2021 07:47

I would get the rage too. I'm not sure I'd be able to keep my mouth shut either. I've got 2 girls and actually I hadn't thought about this as they are so young just now. It's disgusting.

I remember my mum used to get infuriated when this happened.

MellowMelly · 07/05/2021 07:54

Oh it’s awful. My daughter is older now but I found her experiences appalling. A neighbour openly leered at her in front of me while she was in her school uniform and told me how ‘she is blossoming nicely’ and I retorted with ‘ermmm she’s only 14’. He quickly stopped.
I’ve even been into the local shop and had a ‘nice’ word with the man behind the counter who asked her for her number. Easily in his late twenties and again she was in her uniform.
My ex said that he was outside work having a cup of tea with a few colleagues, one of whom started ogling a young girl walking past. Colleague is in his late thirties. My ex said it was clear she was most likely under 16 and mentioned this to the bloke who said ‘if it bleeds it is old enough’. My ex who also had a daughter of 15 at this point nearly knocked the colleague out. He ended up being restrained by the other colleague. I do think it’s got worse.

Mintsmints · 07/05/2021 08:16

I remember my dad once coming home from
his building job in a really bad mood as a kid which was unusual for my dad.

Years later he told me he had been in his works van driving with 30 or so year old colleague when they went past a school, this guy said “cop a load of that” and shouted a load of sexual abuse at the girls at the bus stop.

My dad who is a big bloke pulled over, walked over to the passenger side, grabbed the guy by the scruff of the neck , marched him over the to girls and made him apologise.

He then threw him in the back of the van, drive to the building yard and informed his boss what has just happened. The guy was sacked and sent off with a black eye from my dad. (Don’t usually condone violence but in this case)
My dad was and still is a good bloke and lucky his boss who had five daughters also had zero tolerance for this and had sacked man for cat calling in the past.

I myself have had it since I was about 14 and it stopped at the age of about 25

deepbreath · 07/05/2021 08:25

YANBU. The house next door to ours was recently up for sale. A man of about 50 came to view it with his adult son. A group of 12/13 year old girls walked past as the men were driving away. The older man fully stopped his Ola taxi in the middle of the road to have a good look at them. I openly watched him and made damn sure that he saw me to make sure they were OK and that he didn't say anything to them. It was disgusting.

bethmc93 · 07/05/2021 08:38

It’s so sad to see how many of us have gone through this.
These men are just pigs.

KateMuff · 07/05/2021 09:04

The people on here offering excuses for men and referring to harassment as 'admiration' need to take a long hard look at why they are doing this. It's terrifying how many women do this. Imagine if we just United in refusing to accept it. If every time a man did this every woman went utterly berserk.

janeapple111 · 07/05/2021 09:18

@Orgasmagorical

I agree we shouldn't be putting up with this shit but I think marching is problematic in that it feeds nicely into the 'hysterical woman' narrative men have constructed and perpetuated for far too long. It has to be something they understand and are genuinely bothered by, and quite often, that's shame.

I agree with you. Marching or petitions will bring it to some people's attention but will really make no difference.

I disagree. I was at a woman's rights march in New York, just before Covid hit us.

It was so well organised.
We marched a long way through New York city.
Men and women were marching. There were more women than men there, but men were there marching too for women's rights.
There was such a lovely sense of connection there. It was a great day.
Loads of news journalists were there from tv and newspapers, talking to many different women about why they were marching.

I think it's really sad that you are afraid to march in case men see you as a hysterical woman. That is the patriarchy affecting your mind again. Stay down, be docile. Who cares what men think?
Now is the time for women to get together and stand up for themselves.

janeapple111 · 07/05/2021 09:30

I will say it again.
Men are not going to change.
People in power do not change, they are quite happy to go along with being in power as long as possible.

My male friend said to me the other day "why aren't women more assertive" He thinks that women are doing nothing about men abusing them in loads of different areas. He said "of course men are not going to give up their bit of power, women need to be more assertive and stand
up to what men are doing, for it to change on a large scale."

And he is dead fucking right.
Women need to come together on a large scale and help each other, and we (adult women) need to fight to get things in place to protect our teenage daughters.

There is so much that needs to be done, but trying to get women to do anything on a large scale for women's rights is nearly impossible. Everyone is too afraid to do anything,in case men see them as hysterical.

It annoys me. Too many women sit around being the victim. None of them will fight for themselves, because they are afraid of upsetting men.why are you afraid of upsetting men? Men have been nasty to you for generations.

And women are too afraid to do anything to upset men, Even though fighting for women's rights, would also help protect teenagers and children.

Todaytomorrowyesterday · 07/05/2021 09:32

No person has a right under any excuse to make another person uncomfortable.

Stood there staring at another person is not nice- my daughter is uncomfortable when a man is stood them staring at her. In supermarket she has been queuing and men (of all ages) staring at her chest etc she doesn’t find it a confident boost or flattery she finds it uncomfortable!! And nervous of what the person may do next - it’s not right or fair!

janeapple111 · 07/05/2021 09:33

It's very sad, and it says an awful lot, that when I suggested going on a march for women's rights here , a woman's response on here was

"I dont want men to think that I am hysterical"

Even though men are abusing, sexually harrassing, sexually assaulting and being violent to women on a large scale.

Even though men are sexually abusing female children and teenagers on a large scale.

You don't want men to think you are hysterical by marching.

Unbelievable.

I guess nothing will change in our generation then. Maybe women in the next generation will be stronger, and will stand up for themselves.

Latte40 · 07/05/2021 09:35

We live on a main road where the traffic slows for a pedestrian crossing. My 14 yr old and my 12 yr old experience whooping, shouting, tooting, jeering, staring on a very regular basis when walking home from school and even more so in summer clothes. I've given them full permission to use the middle finger (not that they would but I want them to!)

Boils my blood as I want to believe society has moved on from these times where young men think it's funny. It's not. It's intimidating and embarrassing.

LimitIsUp · 07/05/2021 09:35

I wonder if this is why my dd now wears baggy formless clothing like Billie Eilish (to avoid the male gaze), might be something going on subconsciously there

HowToBringABlushToTheSnow · 07/05/2021 09:40

You have to learn to ignore it, sad as that is, otherwise, you'll just be in a perpetual state of anger. I'm 46 and it still happens to me, I don't notice it now as I switched off to it years ago, but my DH sees it and it pisses him off, the lack of respect towards him is bad enough let alone the outrageous sexism towards me!

These men hate to be ignored so looking right through them is a twofold approach, I get to not care and they get their egos bruised by being ignored.

HowToBringABlushToTheSnow · 07/05/2021 09:41

@LimitIsUp

I wonder if this is why my dd now wears baggy formless clothing like Billie Eilish (to avoid the male gaze), might be something going on subconsciously there
Doesn't matter what you wear! If men see a girl / woman they find sexually attractive, they will stare, comment, etc Hmm
dottiedodah · 07/05/2021 09:43

Thisisworsethananticipated I agree with you .My DM was a big busted lady ,and remembers being leered at by horrible old men while using the tube as a youngster .( this was about the 40s or 50s FFS!) High time it stopped .Thing is dont these men have female relatives , Mums ,Sisters ,Daughters ,Nieces ? Bet they would go mad if anyone did this to their precious families !

MarieIVanArkleStinks · 07/05/2021 12:35

My male friend said to me the other day "why aren't women more assertive" He thinks that women are doing nothing about men abusing them in loads of different areas. He said "of course men are not going to give up their bit of power, women need to be more assertive and stand up to what men are doing, for it to change on a large scale."

I would agree with your friend, but for one inconvenient caveat as far as women are concerned. It goes along the lines of this well-worn phrase: 'Men are afraid women will laugh at them. Women are afraid men will kill them'.

This fear is ever-present and genuine. To show no understanding of what it means to live your life with this situation actually reeks of male privilege.

Yes, this behaviour needs challenging but this should also come with a significant risk assessment (like the woman who ensured security guards were around her when in a supermarket). Particularly if you start using the 'P' word to men leering at young children. Just like racists, people who indulge in this kind of behaviour do NOT like this fact pointed out, and a woman who does so might be taking the risk she'll end up in a ditch somewhere.

It's very sad, and it says an awful lot, that when I suggested going on a march for women's rights here , a woman's response on here was "I dont want men to think that I am hysterical".

On this we can agree. I'm beyond giving a shiny tin shit about what men think. And 'hysterical', or accusations of mental illness, are often a tool used by the patriarchy to shut us the hell up. It's why in a world pre-divorce men wanting rid of their wives (for a younger model?) declared them nuts and had them shunted off to a mental asylum.

None of this is new.

MarieIVanArkleStinks · 07/05/2021 12:39

NB. it's also not about women needing to fight off the unwanted attention of men. It's men needing education about not leering at women, harassing women, or putting their grubby unwanted hands on women's bodies without our consent. Your male friend is focusing his attentions in entirely the wrong direction. Isn't it one of the 14 rules of patriarchy that women are responsible for what men do as well as what women do, and that the onus is somehow on us to fix their poor behaviour?

LimitIsUp · 07/05/2021 12:49

Howtobring

Hmm Right back at you

I am not suggesting that young women and girls are in any way to blame for men leering at them, or that they should be obliged to cover up in order to go under the radar. I was just reflecting that perhaps this is why my dd is going out in baggy formless sweatshirts and hoodies - a departure from before. She has complained about men gawking.

I am making no value judgement or advocating this as a solution for girls and women, I think it's a crying shame as it happens. So back of and wind your neck in

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