To want to shout F off to men perving over my teenage daughter

[Tuesdaysintheazores]

Literally on a walk to the shops, the amount who openly stare and gawp, I'm talking men in their 30s ish and older not teenagers. Gives me the rage

I’m sad it’s still like this. I have sons who are very respectful.

However when I was 13, 14 and looked younger, I used to get leered at, shouted at and followed by older men a lot. Men used to approach me on a regular basis, who were in their 30s, 40s. Men that age used to pinch my arse. Wolf whistle at me. Honestly I looked about 11 Ffs!

I think if I had a daughter I’d directly challenge as this sickness has to be stopped one pervert at a time. I’d either ask them why they are staring. Or take a video/photo of them with my phone. Or just say really loudly ‘that Pervy old man is staring that is disgusting.’

Absolutely. This kind of thing needs to be made an embarrassment for the men, a source of shame, something you wouldn't admit to. Not something you do openly. It needs to be seen as weird, and that there's something wrong with the men who do it. It needs to not be "oh that's just men", it needs to not be "oh it's just something girls have to put up with"

@Yorkterrier. I read that board. And they do. As to the trans issue you mention; this is not about the problems faced by other groups but an issue of upholding women's incredibly hard-earned and still all too puny rights. The suggestion that right to self-definition be overridden and any suggestion that sex matters be rejected, amounts to about the most sustained assault on women's rights in about 5 generations. Of course a feminist board is likely to be concerned about it!

As to the precise reason women need protection from the more physically powerful sex who constantly pester and harass us (and worse), the key is in this post below.

Yet for these experiences to be so universal, then it’s an awful lot of men isn’t it?

And acknowledging this fact is never going to be comfortable. But when I came across this post, I was thinking exactly the same thing.

How can WE make things better for women in the next generation. That is what I always think, because it is not men who are going to change things, they are quite happy having power over women.

My Rape Crisis support worker told me when I broached the subject with her that they are doing a lot of work with young people of both sexes in schools to educate them.

Yes l used to get wolf wistled by workmen when l was walking home from primary school, can you believe? Awful, humiliating experience.

@Devlesko

It's disgusting to think that tthese pervy men have wives and kids themselves. Maybe half of the women on here are married to pervs, guess you'd never know.

Well given the number of women who've said it happened to them too, I'd say not only are quite a few MNers married to them, but their fathers and uncles did it too.

I genuinely don't remember it happening to me though. But I did get taken to school a lot until we moved when I was 16 and then I got the bus. In the summer I walked but I don't remember being leered at. I didn't like walking past building sites because of the stupid wolf whistles but I never experienced anything else (or I was simply too naive to notice it!)

And Mners' brothers and cousins are doing it too - so maybe people should start by speaking to family members about it.

Older men go after very young women, to feel young, and to feel better about themselves. So the men that feel worst about themselves will go after the very young girls.

Do you think? I'm not so sure, I think it's more likely that they feel they have more power over what they think of as a nubile young girl.

@DeadlyMedally

Here’s an idea - stop fucking looking at women like that, full stop.

It's not me that you need to convince.

Funnily enough, I wasn’t trying to convince you personally - anyone who comes out with what you said is probably beyond reasoning with.

I suppose you were just “playing Devil’s Advocate?”

Like others, I've had this from the age of 11 to 21ish...after that it died down a bit bit still happened occasionally.
The thing is...even if men stop the behaviour, the fact remains that an awful lot of them are actively attracted to young girls who are still children. I find that so disturbing. Like, obviously I know these types of people exist but we tend to think of them as an anomaly, whereas it seems that it's in fact incredibly widespread.

Honestly, I think you should teach her to say fuck off. Or better, to shout ‘paedophile’ at them.

Mmm... thinking of people that I know. Are they pervy? I guess ‘a bit’.

My oldest son’s (19) father commented that his new girlfriend was ‘really good looking’ and said ‘well done son’. We are separated.

I know that is not outrageously pervy, but it still struck me as wrong. You don’t comment on your son’s younger girlfriend’s looks, and pat your son on the back. Yuk. I told my son that it’s not really on to have your father pass judgement on the attractiveness of your girlfriend. His father is married to someone a lot younger than him.

My own father admires women’s looks in a way where he’s obviously trying to make out that he is a gentleman but that he ‘loves a woman who dresses well’ or ‘appreciates beauty’. I’ve always felt irritated by that as his daughter. It’s as if he feels the world needs to know what he thinks of the females he sees. And tell everyone, including me his daughter. Just why?

It makes me so angry that this is still going on and frankly It makes me want to castrate every fucking, leering sex pest, or just shoot the fuckers in their cocks. Maybe we need female vigilantes that patrol school routes.

@Orgasmagorical

Older men go after very young women, to feel young, and to feel better about themselves. So the men that feel worst about themselves will go after the very young girls.

Do you think? I'm not so sure, I think it's more likely that they feel they have more power over what they think of as a nubile young girl.

Yeah and they like the power as well.

It is usually the more older ugly, damaged men that prey on young teen girls.

Young men in their twenties, are happy in themselves, so they don't do it.

Once some older men begin to feel less attractive, and think that they cant attract an adult woman naturally, they will start abusing their physical power, and go after younger teenagers, and in worse case scenarios, children.

That is why it is always old pervs that go after teenagers and children.

I shouted 'she's 12 and you're disgusting' at the last perve who did it to DD, he looked like he wanted the ground to swallow him and several people shot him disgusted looks so maybe that's the way to go
nice one, there is also the pull your phone out & film the perp/perv option

Just a thought, instead of saying that men need to stop being sexually abusive pricks, which we know is everywhere.

Why don't women be more proactive and more assertive about women's safety on a large scale?

Yes it is the men that are wrong right now, but women are also not taking much action, there is so much more that women could be doing to protect women and to protect girls.

I just think its pointless to say "look how bad men are treating us". And we all know that Men are treating women badly in extreme and terrible ways. I think men treating women badly has reached one of the worst levels it has been, in a century.

But we can't just sit around and be a victim forever. We need to instigate change. It needs to come from women.

Think to yourself, what can you do to improve women's rights and safety? Can you volunteer to go in and talk about it in a school?

If you are a teacher , can you give a class about gender equality, safety?

Can you volunteer for an orgainsation helping women online?

Can you write posts for women's charities on Facebook?

Can you protest anywhere? March anywhere?

Can you get a petition signed?

I , personally have just written an article about women's rights and women's safety, for my local paper.

We can make change.

My dd gets this, whenever we go to gigs particularly, from the age of about 13 she would get continually hassled by men unless she was very obviously standing between us. One gig was so bad, had to keep batting men off, that this lovely young gay chap who was next to us with his boyfriend put his arm round her and winked and said don't worry just pretend you're with me. A fucking disgrace that this should be necessary

Thanks for all the responses. It's a good question what can we do. I'd be prepared to go on a march or take some action.

Yet for these experiences to be so universal, then it’s an awful lot of men isn’t it?

From reading this thread, it really is

Why don't women be more proactive and more assertive about women's safety on a large scale?
I agree, but every person who stands up to a pervperp in public is sending a message to others that it's possible to face these creeps down. Also sends a message to other creeps that we can humiliate them back

On the one hand, I think the fact that really violent, 'hard core' porn is much more easily accessible now is part of the issue as to a certain extent it dehumanises women and girls to mere sex objects.

On the other hand, there's a lot of women here saying it happened when they were teenagers (and I'm assuming age a bit but a lot will have grown up when I did, before the internet was really a thing) so that may not be a part of it.

It's unpleasant enough to be leered at as a full grown woman, really horrible as a child/teenager.

I agree we need to do more. Whatever that is. Even if it is telling Uncle Jo that DD doesn’t want him commenting that she ‘looks lovely’. Even if it is just being more vocal in our circles.

This might be controversial, but I also think the mid life crisis man leaving the family for a younger woman is part of the bedrock of the problem. It sets the whole tone that men can have the power, to continually swap their woman for as young as they like. Women that would have been babies when they were adults. I don’t understand why women would marry guys older when they are younger either. It’s like we are propping up the power of ‘older man younger woman’ in various ways. And the ultimate in that is very young women, girls.

And yes, it would be great to shout 'fuck off' at men doing this but you need to be pretty confident to do so. I certainly wouldn't have felt confident enough as a teenager to do that.

I've seen men staring at 13 year old girls my son goes to school with its bloody disgusting.

This used to happen all the time with my daughters. I used to go up to the men and say their ages and ask if they were perverts most were really embarrassed.

We used to be encouraged to scoff and laugh at those who saw a “pedo round every corner” and older women who were suspicious of men. But actually in reality it was these people that were bloody right.