To want to shout F off to men perving over my teenage daughter

[Tuesdaysintheazores]

Literally on a walk to the shops, the amount who openly stare and gawp, I'm talking men in their 30s ish and older not teenagers. Gives me the rage

Would anything change if misogyny was a hate crime? And if the police/CPS/courts took it seriously?

Surely verbal abuse & filming could be dealt with? Leering probably can't, although the basis of hate incidents is that a person feels offended. If you're not allowed to shout racial or homophobic things at someone in the street, why should you be allowed to shout offensive things at women or girls in the street, just because they ARE women & girls?

I agree regarding the clothing «choices» presented in shops.
I often buy «boy» clothes for my daughter, and has vowed to never knowingly buy jeans or dresses without functioning pockets.

And the number of abusive men in the world is staggeringly high. As other posters have pointed out, there aren’t just a few running round like mad pestering away. It is the majority of men. Young and old. It is prevalent even in almost all societies, sort of clandestine in some, openly encouraged in others. Girls and women are collateral damage to the incredibly entitled males we surround ourselves with.
What can we do about it?
I challenge it whenever it is safe to do so. I talk to my husband and sons. And it is certainly a conversation that needs to be had publicly; preferably shouted from the rooftops!

Please do something to challenge them. If we all did then maybe they would stop. As someone else said it can be indirect like asking if you dropped something and then giving them a certain look. Or even just giving them a certain look. Or just yelling fuck of you cocksucker if you want

Its not a new thing, when I was a teen in the 80's lorry drivers would hoot their air horns at us when they drove past. Honestly walking home from school was just completely awful with a cacophony of car horns.
One would hope things would have changed now as men became a bit more clued up.
DS (handsome and quite shy) got a lot of hassle from gay men and older (much older) women, when he was waiting tables. He would just blush, (aww look he's blushing, I will make you blush more if you come home with me) because he has a stutter and couldnt find the words to make a retort.
Its sexual harassment, its grim, its bullying, its absolutely not on.

It is disgusting but anyone who's been to Latin America will know it's 100 times worse. Literally twenty times a day, touched up, stared at, hissed at, whispering in ears.
I felt invisible when I returned to the UK!

But yes, it needs to stop. I am quite confident and will call it out if I'm with my DD, I'm not sure she would have the confidence to do the same.

I found Latin America ok but am dark haired so didn’t stand out. Cairo was hell on earth. My friend and I ended up staying in our hotel room the abuse and harassment whenever we ventured out was incessant and aggressive. We were unaccompanied twenty somethings at the time

@Yorkterrier

Yes tell them to Fuck Off

No, teach your daughter to tell them to fuck off!

Yes I had light brown hair. I also had major issues in other parts of the world. Like you I ended up staying in my hotel room at times. It was incessant, I came back thinking how gentlemanly the British are!

I'd say loudly, ignore these old perverts darling, in a loud voice. Men hate nothing more than being called a paedophile

@DeadlyMedally

Men are going to look at physically mature, attractive "women". Surely they'd have to look to decide that she's too young to be looked at? Shouting at them might help, but you'd probably just end up with a sore throat and men still perving.

Does this apply to lesbian and bisexuality women too? Is it OK if I "admire" your attractive teenage daughter?

There's a billboard advertising campaign where I live asking people to call it out

I saw a billboard last week saying the same. I'm wracking my brains trying to think where it was as I've only seen it once. I think it was in Colne.

I've been saying for years that if 14 year olds were legal, a huge proportion of men would quite happily 'date' them.

Of course then they'd have to fetishise 10 years olds instead.

I tend to glare and say “nonce” loud enough for them to hear.
Of course I would prefer her to deal with it herself but she doesn’t feel able to. She’s 16 now but it’s been happening since she was around 11.
Mind you now she’s 16 I suppose “nonce” isn’t really accurate is it?

I have a lot of rage I direct at the gawping filth. I often walk through a crowd of teens leaving school on my way to collect my youngest (opposite direction). I'm appalled by the frequency with which I'll be flipping off or shouting at drivers harassing school girls. At first I used to get nervous sniggers from the girls or worse from the school boys but I think they're now mostly pleased someone won't stand for it. It should absolutely not be something that needs to be done. But I'm at the should I be writing down licence plates or go pro ing my walks stage of being angry over this issue.

I must say I'm always a little surprised to read accounts like this and it makes me think there are vastly different notions of what is appropriate behaviour depending on where you live in the UK.

We live in a city and I'm often out with my DD14 and her best friend. Her BF is meant to be one of the prettiest girls in her year at school, but I don't think I've ever even seen them being noticed by men (apart from boys their age) let alone leered at.

All the girls dress quite androgynously though - baggy jeans and puffa jackets (although they often have quite revealing tops underneath). Our city is also quite politically correct compared to surrounding areas!

@Florelei

I wholeheartedly agree that women and girls should be able to dress as they please. A woman should be able to walk naked down the street without fear of rape/harassment.

However, I do wonder if the problem runs deeper than you might think. Why is the fashion for women generally to have tight/revealing clothing? Should there not be mainstream tight/revealing clothing for men if we are genuinely free to choose our clothes? If not, why not? Who is designing this clothing? Are we being subliminally ‘told’ that this is what we should wear and then thinking it’s our choice as women? Also, why don’t clothes for women have practical pockets etc like men’s clothes do?

I’ve just fallen down a bit of a rabbit hole here so am just thinking aloud. I’m probably being ridiculous.

I TOTALLY agree with this.

Young teenagers and women are being told to wear tight clothes by the fashion industry. The fashion industry do this for men's stimulation.

I wore skin tight leggings and small tshirts for the last four years, because that is what I was told to wear by the fashion industry, and because every woman around me was wearing it. Those leggings completely show the outline of a woman's vagina and bum, and yet we all wore them like they were normal.

My mind had definitely been trained by the fashion industry to see tight as normal. I felt to look feminine I had to wear tight clothes.

It was only last year, when I went with a male friend into a male clothes shop, that I saw there were clothes there that were more comfortable and that I really wanted to wear.

I have been wearing a lot of male tshirts, and male tracksuit bottoms since. They are so much more comfortable and less revealing.

Men don't wear skintight leggings that outline the shape of their penis and the cheeks of their bums, so ask yourselves why have women been told that wearing those leggings is normal by the fashion industry.

There are not male clothes and female clothes.

There are clothes. shop in the male clothes stores all you want!

@Grandbisou

If it was legal and society accepted it - with all these reports of leering at underage girls - would men actually try and date these girls? I know in some countries adult men marry 12 year olds. It makes me sick that the only thing preventing so many men might just be our societal views and non acceptance.

It's actually legal in some states in the USA. I read once of a 12 year old who was raped and got pregnant. The parents solved it by marrying her to the rapist. They did have to get a Judge's approval but they did belong to a religious cult. Some states have raised the legal age for marriage to 18 but some states still have ages as low as 13 though with court approval. I just can't imagine how any judge would approve of this practice.

Not quite the same but i went out drinking with some friends and their daughters (late teens). In every pub older men were leering /commenting on the girls to each other. These werent men intheir 30s, im talking late 50s and i kept thinking they were my dads age. The manner in which they were openly doing this was disgusting.

@MsTSwift

I found Latin America ok but am dark haired so didn’t stand out. Cairo was hell on earth. My friend and I ended up staying in our hotel room the abuse and harassment whenever we ventured out was incessant and aggressive. We were unaccompanied twenty somethings at the time

My first memory of being leered and shouted at was at 11 years old in Cairo. Defining moment!

I agree with you completely @Florelei. As a woman in my 20s, I've struggled for years to find skirts without massive slits up them and shirts that arent see through.

Dont even get me started on pockets. I now say 'no pockets, no deal!'

What a depressing thread. It's 2021, and men are still behaving like this? I assume lots have daughters themselves.. :-(

'Does this apply to lesbian and bisexuality women too? Is it OK if I "admire" your attractive teenage daughter?'

Bisexuality women??!!

The idea that women who are same sex attracted are like creepy men, behave like creepy men... Is sexist, lesbo/bi phobic and just silly.

Women whatever their sexuality do not tend to go around openly leering, shouting stuff from cars, etc etc.

What an odd post.

Anyway it's nothing new.

I got it from 12/13.

DD2 is 5'5, long blonde hair, boobs. Men look. She's 11.

Fuck the lot of them.

I agree we shouldn't be putting up with this shit but I think marching is problematic in that it feeds nicely into the 'hysterical woman' narrative men have constructed and perpetuated for far too long. It has to be something they understand and are genuinely bothered by, and quite often, that's shame.

I agree with you. Marching or petitions will bring it to some people's attention but will really make no difference.

I wish people would stop commenting on the clothes. I get that somehow maybe that gives you some way you think you can prevent it happening to you and your dds but it's fuck all to do with clothes. This shit happens what ever you wear. It's happening with girls on the way to school wearing their school uniform fgs. They have no choice but to wear that