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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To despair that people still vote Tory given their track record and outright dishonesty?

828 replies

flashbac · 05/05/2021 19:46

I don't get it. Its depressing. We deserve better than this surely? Why give them the green light? What kind of society do we want? One where liars get our approval?

OP posts:
CirclesWithinCircles · 08/05/2021 16:43

Here we go...

I am British, by the way...

Blacktothepink · 08/05/2021 16:45

Yanbu 😡

Puttingouthefirewithgasoline · 08/05/2021 16:48

Whatever do we mean by privaliged?

Was kiers home a happy one, in spite of being ordinary?

Did opera dad break his mums nose? Were there parental mental health issues?

I'd say the more stable happier home is the one that confers the most privalige on any child regardless of wealth or education although keir is grammar product

Xenia · 08/05/2021 18:01

Labour seems to give out a constant message that people are awful, this country is awful,that we are all in the wrong, all nasty, all racists, all sexist. Never that we are lovely people who do good things.

This mock up of a pretend Labour poster (Britain is Awful. you people are Scum" .) kind of summarises the issue. They don't make ordinary people feel good. They want them to live in some kind of constant sack cloth and ashes for past wrongs not committed by those people at all.

newsthump.com/2021/03/17/britain-is-awful-you-people-are-scum-the-labour-lefts-new-slogan/

Blackberrycream · 08/05/2021 18:08

[quote Xenia]Labour seems to give out a constant message that people are awful, this country is awful,that we are all in the wrong, all nasty, all racists, all sexist. Never that we are lovely people who do good things.

This mock up of a pretend Labour poster (Britain is Awful. you people are Scum" .) kind of summarises the issue. They don't make ordinary people feel good. They want them to live in some kind of constant sack cloth and ashes for past wrongs not committed by those people at all.

newsthump.com/2021/03/17/britain-is-awful-you-people-are-scum-the-labour-lefts-new-slogan/[/quote]
That is exactly it Xenia .
There is a right way to be and most of us are not measuring up to this right way to be. Yet we are still berated like naughty children for not voting for that.

OldScrappyAndHungry · 08/05/2021 19:02

@Xenia if you read that spoof article they are poking fun at the Corbyn wing of the LP not Starmer.

Changechangychange · 08/05/2021 19:15

It’s bizarre that poster think Keir Starmer and Boris Johnson come from similar levels of privilege.

Keir Starmer’s childhood home:
www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/sep/23/keir-starmer-film-shows-him-outside-childhood-family-home

Boris Johnson’s childhood home:
www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.scotsman.com/news/politics/boris-johnsons-london-childhood-home-selling-aps1125-million-1432650%3famp

I find it hard to imagine that Stanley Johnson “had no money”, quite aside from the fact he sent his kids to Eton.

I don’t particularly like Starmer, he seems like a very cold fish, and he has no policies. But he clearly doesn’t come from a background of inherited wealth.

Hollowgast · 08/05/2021 20:33

Boris got a scholarship to Eton. Something hugely coveted and you need to be seriously good to win one of those.

Marcydarcy7867 · 08/05/2021 20:35

He only got a 2.1 though in his degree. Starmer got a first then worked his way up to head of the crown prosecutions service

LemonRoses · 08/05/2021 20:45

Johnson’s family is wealthy. Their family home sold for over £11 million in 2018. He sells himself as poor but is a multimillionaire.

He did get a scholarship but from pre schools in U.K. and overseas. He is bilingual in French having been immersed at a young age - so hardly surprising. What’s odd is that he pretends not to be fluent.

Starmer has a much more impressive CV and succeeded at his jobs whereas Johnson got sacked twice for lying.

Changechangychange · 08/05/2021 21:17

@Hollowgast

Boris got a scholarship to Eton. Something hugely coveted and you need to be seriously good to win one of those.
Nobody is saying he’s stupid. Just a) not poor, and b) a habitual liar who is well-known for having a poor work ethic (sacked several times for this, so that’s not just my opinion).

None of that means you shouldn’t vote Conservative, if you think they will pass legislation you like. I am simply saying that he does indeed come from a privileged background, and wasn’t a penniless FSM kid from a broken home, as some people seem to be bizarrely claiming.

MayYouLiveInInterestingTimes · 08/05/2021 21:23

The trouble is that people can see the left wing either lying outright, or choosing to remain ignorant of, the effects of their political correctness on, e.g. women and on a local, settled, poorer population v the rich mobile one that they mainly belong to.

Marcydarcy7867 · 08/05/2021 21:32

What Mayyou? Your post is so wrong I don’t even know where to begin.
The rich and mobile tend to be conservative
The conservatives have been proven to have lied many times
The conservatives have been proven not to consider the impact of their policies on women Etc

Are you another conservative bot spinning media propaganda?! They employ hundreds of media bots to spin crap like this. This cabinet focuses more on its media strategy and p r than it does running the country. Boris has taken a lead out of putins book and has trolls working for him on media spin (again proven this is fact and widely reported in the news),

Boulshired · 08/05/2021 21:51

At this moment the Tories do not need “propaganda media bots” they have labour doing that for them. Deflection on why life long labour voters have turned their backs is not going to get them back. Labour do not even know who they are.

Sadieeloise5687 · 08/05/2021 21:58

They don’t need bots they can rely on the gullible public spreading lies for them.., www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/dec/14/tory-online-election-campaign-russian-bots-misinformation-retweeting

Onetoomuch · 08/05/2021 22:07

Every thread about labour is inundated with posters telling us repeatedly that the labour party insults and demeans w/c labour voters. The only mps I've heard insulting them are most definitely not members of the labour party. On SM insults have been traded but it was on both sides.
Labour have cocked up massively and seem to have neglected their core voters. There was also a huge influx of 'woke' politically engaged young people into the party who revitalised it but also changed the traditional agenda that seems to have turned off a lot of socially conservative traditionally labour voters. I suppose that was inevitable but could have been a good thing when you consider that the average age of a tory party member is 108. Maybe the party needs to find compromise between the 2 sections. What is pointless is this constant refrain about how labour is finished. Doesn't help. Certainly isn't positive or looking to the future.

Onetoomuch · 08/05/2021 22:09

@Boulshired labour do not even know who they are yup heard it for the millionth time but what does that even mean ?

littlebillie · 08/05/2021 23:00

[quote Sadieeloise5687]They don’t need bots they can rely on the gullible public spreading lies for them.., www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/dec/14/tory-online-election-campaign-russian-bots-misinformation-retweeting[/quote]
Or their own manifesto, it was poor and ill advised. The last few weeks sounded like more and more empty promises

CirclesWithinCircles · 08/05/2021 23:22

[quote Onetoomuch]@CirclesWithinCircles god you sound condescending. Keir Starmers parents were a tool maker and nurse, he went to a state school. He was a human rights lawyer for years.
Keir Starmer bought the land for his mother years back when he was a lawyer so she could carry on running a donkey sanctuary with her husband. She was unable to walk due to a life limiting illness and the land was bought so she could still be involved. The land is now worth reportedly 10 million. I remember the daily mail using it as ammunition trying to trash him but they ended up looking foolish..
To think that an eton education doesn't bestow advantage is clearly naive, the guy was in the Bullingdon club fgs with other well connected men that he knew from Eton. Maybe read the tatler rather than Agameen Dagblag, you'll get a better handle on class in the UK Wink[/quote]
To come back to this, why do you think I need "a better handle on class in the UK"?

And what gives you the right to write such a condescending comment while simultaneously accusing me of being condescending? Its like me making an assumption that you're racist because you've confused my being raised partly in another country and tendency to read Algemeen Dagblad with actually being gulp not British. So you would actually speak differently to someone you assume not to be British and boss them around and insult them? OMG...

Not to forget, you want to dictate my reading material too! So heres an article about Keir in Tatler for you:

www.tatler.com/article/sir-keir-starmer-owns-land-in-surrey-worth-10-million

Now the reason that Keir bought those 7 acres in the first place is because they are behind his parent's former home, which he sold recently for around £500,000. Its a very ordinary property, but as we all know, thats what properties in that area go for.

I do realise that Labour are all excited to have a Leader who has actually had a proper career for once. But you really are not on a winner with the working class man of the people shtick.

Do you have any idea how difficult it was for anyone other than white men to even contemplate qualifying as a barrister in 1987, when Keir was first admitted? To become a barrister, you need an incredible amount of financial help, because you earn nothing at all for quite a while and have to live within commuting distance of central London, where your chambers will be located. Things have changed a lot in the law since then, but at that time, women were in a tiny minority and mixed race or black people were extremely rare, along with most chambers being in central London. So yes, that is privilege right there. Most people could never afford it, never mind have the confidence to try.

As for the luxury of possessing land worth £10 million and not to have to sell it, again this is champagne socialism at its finest. Now Keir cannot really win here, but I would surmise that his altruism is at least partly explained by the likliehood of selling the land amounting political suicide. But he still has it, as a nice little nest egg when he retires, and use it as security for loans or a mortgage. Even to afford 7 acres of land adjoining Oxted in Surrey when he bought it is beyond the dreams of nearly everyone. It was an incredible investment decision.

I have nothing against Keir Starmer, he is excellent, clever and articulate, although I would like to see him actually offer some opposition and some genuine principles. I do question whether theres much point in anyone with genuine ambitions to be pm bothering to even join Labour at the moment, and for that reason I question whether he really wants the job. Opposition is much easier, you get to blame the real government for any failings and you have no real responsibility. I think its a shame he didn't join another party to use his obvious talents, but then again, which other party does the UK actually have which could provide a proper Opposition?

HalcyonSea · 08/05/2021 23:41

@foxtookitaway

Short memories folks. The mess of schools, Tory mates spending, rule breaking by travelling, lies, delays in locking down, short notice of changes, ...if it wasn't so sad and serious it would be funny.

All of that pales into insignificance when we've got a great vaccination program

Yeah. Let's just forget about tens of thousands of unnecessary deaths eh?

I am a centrist and support no political party. The handling of the pandemic in the UK was diabolical and I am shocked that because of weird political party loyalty anybody would convince themselves that this obvious fact is not the case. The stats all show it if you care to look.

The vaccine rollout has been very successful. Primarily because we have a very skilled and concentrated pharmaceutical base in the UK. That is not something that can be attributed to the Government - of course you're going to get some priority for a vaccine developed by Universities and businesses in your own country. They did do some good procurement work in terms of early and beneficial contract terms (which they could have done whether EU members or not). They have also managed the rollout well overall.

Why can we not have a balanced debate? Credit where it is due - vaccine rollout. Criticism where it is due - terrible management of border controls, internal restrictions, NHS procurement, contract tracing etc that led to one of the highest death rates per capita in the world.

Andante57 · 08/05/2021 23:59

Why can we not have a balanced debate

HalcyonSea there are plenty of different views on this thread. Or do you mean by a ‘balanced debate’ only criticism of the Tories?

AlecTrevelyan006 · 09/05/2021 00:07

most people vote for the candidate / party they dislike the least

I suspect few people have any positive allegiance towards any politicians or parties

HalcyonSea · 09/05/2021 03:07

@Andante57

Why can we not have a balanced debate

HalcyonSea there are plenty of different views on this thread. Or do you mean by a ‘balanced debate’ only criticism of the Tories?

No. Read my post: I credited them for what they've done well, and criticised stuff they have done badly. That is how rational discussion works. It's based on facts.
HalcyonSea · 09/05/2021 03:10

@AlecTrevelyan006

most people vote for the candidate / party they dislike the least

I suspect few people have any positive allegiance towards any politicians or parties

That's clearly not the case given the fact that most people know next to nothing about their local candidates - especially in council elections - and the voting pattern across the country. It's pretty clear that most people vote without researching candidates or policies at all, based on pre-conceived opinions. Otherwise you would not get these persistent patterns if voting for specific parties in certain places, regardless of what individual is standing for them.
Onetoomuch · 09/05/2021 07:25

That's actually pretty spot on @HalcyonSea. Explains the huge swaithes of the uk that are blue concentrated in certain areas.
@Andante57 Don't think there's much criticism of the tories on this thread but funnily lots on the one about the grenfell cladding issue Hmm maybe have a read of that one which is less one sided ?
@CirclesWithinCircles Wind your neck in, no ones being racist Confused

Your post makes no sense. I would like to see him offer opposition and genuine principles well listen to pmqs, go onto the labour website, read his twitter feeds then you will get a handle.
In opposition you get to blame the government for its failings and have no real responsibility that's the idea of an opposition surely ? He criticises and he's accused of being unpatriotic, he agrees and he's weak. He can't win.
Labour are excited to have a leader with a proper career for once Tony Blair was a barrister, Harold Wilson a modern history lecturer at Oxford, again a grammar school boy who worked hard.
Starmer's dad was a tool maker and mum a nurse, he went to grammar school and did well.I don't particularly care for the 'sir' but it is what it is. To call him a champagne socialist is ridiculous. Can't socialists work hard, have ambitions, show aspiration ? Confused