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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To despair that people still vote Tory given their track record and outright dishonesty?

828 replies

flashbac · 05/05/2021 19:46

I don't get it. Its depressing. We deserve better than this surely? Why give them the green light? What kind of society do we want? One where liars get our approval?

OP posts:
gottakeeponmovin · 08/05/2021 15:00

@CirclesWithinCircles you missed out Guardian Journalists and students with privileged backgrounds who have not yet experienced enough of the world to know what they are in about (they grow out of it eventually)

the80sweregreat · 08/05/2021 15:04

People should start their own party.
Mumsnetters are ( mostly ) fairly wealthy and are pretty clued up about politics and very well read. Someone needs to get the tories on the run. I can't see them going anywhere for years.

Dg390 · 08/05/2021 15:20

Hi circleswithincircles - you describe yourself as hardworking but choose to describe two men as privileged - one with a career history of extreme laziness and one who has worked hard for everything he has done.so from your northern scottish view is for children born in London you are indifferent between hard working and lazy because being in london / surrey means privilege and whether it is hard work or inherited connections who cares (would you be happy to vote for starmer if he hadn’t been successful or would he still be wrong). And Johnson is useless about getting other people to look at detail and we are very lucky that the NHs is run by great people or else we would be in much bigger trouble. What the nhs has achieved is in spite of Johnson rather than because of him - he was all over the detail of the pre Christmas lockdown and failed to act in time which is why we have one of the highest death rates in the developed world ...

raffegiraffe · 08/05/2021 15:40

The question asked was someone please tell me what labour would have done differently. If you're going to say " well would they have actually though?" it makes it impossible for me to answer. That was what they said at the time. I can't believe people think the Tory's handled this well. How many here are front line like me?? Total disgrace.

Andante57 · 08/05/2021 15:42

so from your northern scottish view is for children born in London you are indifferent between hard working and lazy because being in london / surrey means privilege and whether it is hard work or inherited connections who cares (would you be happy to vote for starmer if he hadn’t been successful or would he still be wrong)

Dg390 I am struggling to make sense of this sentence.

Moonstone1234 · 08/05/2021 15:43

NHS run by great people - don’t be silly. They are a bloated team of people and a lot of people think it is long overdue for an overhaul.

The army were very much in the background in the vaccine roll out and people from industry.

Having supplied them for over 30 years they often cannot see the wood for the trees

Dg390 · 08/05/2021 15:46

And reflecting for circleswithincircles the good news is I guess you would be open to voting for a Labour leader from north Tyneside or Liverpool without the curse of evil London and surrey 😊.

Dg390 · 08/05/2021 15:49

Moonstone1234 can’t comment on which bit of nhs you work with and you might be right. On vaccine rollout you are factually wrong. Army platted very minor part and to be fair wouldn’t claim otherwise; Pharma companies were good but nhs delivery was key. When you get the jab do make sure you tell the people who give it to you that everyone around them who have been working flat out for months including their managers is useless and you will wait for your jab from the army

Dg390 · 08/05/2021 15:49

Played not platted !!!

MarinPrime · 08/05/2021 15:50

OldScrappyAndHungry
I weep at the idea that anyone admires Johnson. He is so far beyond odious. As as a PP said, the kind of man who’d be annihilated on here if his wife posted about his behaviour.

I agree, but the voting population doesn't only consist of disapproving mumsnetters.

Many people have different priorities and aren't interested in a politicians private life.
Also there are chauvinistic men who are proud to be serial shaggers and women who aren't bothered as long as they're financially provided for.

And some people may want him to stay as pm just because they like laughing at him on telly.

They all have a vote.

Dg390 · 08/05/2021 15:54

Hi what I was saying was that Johnson and starmer were both described as priviledged men from london. One very hard working from poor background ; one lazy and life based on inherited connections and class. The other poster said they were the same from her perspective. So the message to kids in london is that people don’t care how hard you have worked because if you do succeed from nowhere you are just the equivalent of a privileged old Etonian who got everything on a plate.

Dg390 · 08/05/2021 15:56

But for everyone who loves Boris he has been successful and there are many areas with a Tory council and a Tory government. Let’s see whether those areas are transformed for everyone in the next few years . For some reason the last 11 years of Tory government have achieved nothing / made things worse but I am sure there was a very good reason for that and it will be wonderful. Though hopefully not wonderful in the same way as the fishermen were promised for brexit which doesn’t quite seek the amazing result Boris promised...

Puttingouthefirewithgasoline · 08/05/2021 16:01

Dg, what was ks home life like because apparently Johnsons was rather traumatic at times?

Dg390 · 08/05/2021 16:05

His mother was seriously ill for most of his childhood and his father working hard because they had no money.

CirclesWithinCircles · 08/05/2021 16:06

@Dg390

Hi circleswithincircles - you describe yourself as hardworking but choose to describe two men as privileged - one with a career history of extreme laziness and one who has worked hard for everything he has done.so from your northern scottish view is for children born in London you are indifferent between hard working and lazy because being in london / surrey means privilege and whether it is hard work or inherited connections who cares (would you be happy to vote for starmer if he hadn’t been successful or would he still be wrong). And Johnson is useless about getting other people to look at detail and we are very lucky that the NHs is run by great people or else we would be in much bigger trouble. What the nhs has achieved is in spite of Johnson rather than because of him - he was all over the detail of the pre Christmas lockdown and failed to act in time which is why we have one of the highest death rates in the developed world ...
Oh gawd, why do people do this on the internet? It tells me more about the questioner so why give that much evidence about your true motives (like Keir, I'm a lawyer).

Some of us just dont fall neatly into your much beloved stereotypical assumptions - I might currently live in the North but not in Northern England, am partly Dutch educated, read not English newspapers but Algemeen Dagblad, and don't vote for individuals but for parties. I can guarantee that when you say you live in the North of Scotland on here, some posters will assume youre a bit thick and then try to patronise you (then deny it). (not all of course).

God knows how Starmer has convinced so many Labour supporters to believe he is not privileged - i'll give you that he is hard working, but everyone else knows that his family are wealthy and that he inherited land in Surrey, so to me, inheriting valuable land cancels out an Eton education as its more quantifiable/tangible.

But what you're really telling me is that you're trying to catch me out. I'm not sure why that is, except there are certain people who like an audience and particularly to deride people to that audience. You're not quite sure of your audience here, so you're caging it a bit.

But so caught up are you in your cause, that you just can't help yourself with so much detail, when a neutral or less biased person would argue in general points.

So much false attribution - I didnt actually describe myself as hardworking (nor did I say I'm not - like many people, I probably have times of laziness).

But what you're telliing me is that Labour supporters trawl through the posts online of anyone who marginally challenges them. You've tried to make it sound friendly, but have been overly personal and accusative.

You see it on here all the time. It's very predictable and I must admit I sometimes set up Snp supporters on Scotsnet, and use their responses to study their tactics.

Yes, any barrister/many lawyers who do court work get instruction in this sort of thing. Yes, other people do see through it too, not just lawyers. We even got a short session on spotting the signs of the dark triad in the diploma to help us identify lies. Fascinating stuff.

What you will want to do now is accuse me of being elitist/a snob/obtuse, because you will try to set me apart in some way. Or another poster might come on and try it. Or maybe just downright abuse.

I dont think you realise how badly it comes across to be so rude about people ("a career of extreme laziness") to me it makes me suspect that you might have a problem with auhority/following rules and many people aren't really comfortable with such a blatant lack of respect for someone who has likely worked a lot harder than you).

I see both of you so far have started your post with "Hi Circles..." Grin

Dg390 · 08/05/2021 16:09

And in general I get why people do vote on policies and choose to ignore politicians characters and private actions. But I do find it rather hard to take the idea that we criticise starmer for being hard working and successful and then say he is just like Boris. Tho I guess I am naive because I guess the point is that for some people either a Labour politician is successful and therefore no different to a Tory or he unsuccessful and then is a failure and not good enough. The uk has a weakness for posh politicians who are seen as better (same way US liked trump because they like self made businessman).

Puttingouthefirewithgasoline · 08/05/2021 16:10

Dg, actually many people don't get into Oxford for normal backgrounds and this is why they try and tackle the inequality in admissions

Onetoomuch · 08/05/2021 16:12

@Moonstone1234 what does overhaul mean in real speak ? We've had loads of 'overhauls', few of which have been successful. The term 'bloated' isn't really how I'd describe NHS staffing, far from it. If so, why were the government clamouring for retired health professionals to help during the pandemic and then with the vaccine rollout ? Or do you mean 'NHS managers', most of whom are clinicians.
Why are tory supporters so critical of the NHS ? It's like it's hardwired in them to despise anything that's for everyone, regardless of class or ability to pay. It's not perfect and yes, questions do need to be asked about how it will cope with the huge demand on its services by increasing numbers of older people etc but 'overhaul' is one of those nebulous terms that mean nothing.

CirclesWithinCircles · 08/05/2021 16:14

@Dg390

And reflecting for circleswithincircles the good news is I guess you would be open to voting for a Labour leader from north Tyneside or Liverpool without the curse of evil London and surrey 😊.
Wtaf? Where? Why?

I'd quite like to see a woman labour leader, that's for sure. Wouldn't that be a novel thing.

God, you're really pushing Keir Starmer, aren't you? Admirable, but I really don't think you realise quite how privileged his background is. Labour supporters fully on message with it now.

Apparently now, we are to be accused of "loving Boris". Now, clearly for you, as in someone who throws around exaggerated adjectives carelessly, love is something you refer to lightly, but for me, it's something I reserve for my nearest and dearest, not politicians.

Abd to further confound you, I don't even vote Conservative. I just find the not too well hidden mind games left wingers like to play fascinating.

And a little remark about "the fishermen" thrown in to make it seem as though you care about whatever area yiu imagine fishing is important to!

Just so much infornation!

CirclesWithinCircles · 08/05/2021 16:16

I see you've progressed onto the use of "we" now, as if you speak for us all! (nearly misspelt that "ve"). Beautifully grandiose.

Dg390 · 08/05/2021 16:21

So in polite response to Circles

  • if in your heart you believe starmer and Johnson are the same I and no other stranger on the internet will convince you otherwise (tho good to know that a minute plot of donkey sanctuary land inherited at 55 equals a half million pound education at 13...
  • there are numerous public reports of how lazy Boris is-think he is quite Proud of it from former colleagues , other politicians and from
Eton! But if I am upsetting you it reminds me why I try to avoid politics on line and keep to real life where it is easy to work out if there is a debate to be had where both sides can learn or whether best to move on. If we met in real life we would have changed the subject to the weather after a minute which would be better all round and a better use of time! Hope weather in Scotland better tHan it is in london today
CirclesWithinCircles · 08/05/2021 16:22

Anyway, while the litte off post consulatation/trawl through past posts/making dinner goes on, I'd just like to say that what Keir doesn't say tells me a lot more than what he does.

It's the Labour party that is holding him back. He could do well if Labour could get a grip on their various warring factions and be a bit more positive. It's really not doing this country any good in lacking a serious opposition.

There are just far too many reasons not to vote for Labour. Their attitude towards women would be enough for me alone, veven if weren't for evlerything else.

OldScrappyAndHungry · 08/05/2021 16:27

@MarinPrime oh absolutely I get that. But it’s not just his chauvinism and appalling behaviour as a husband and “father”.

He’s also shown himself to be a liar in his work life and his politics. He switches political positions to further his own career, has been sacked from high profile jobs for lying, has lied repeatedly on record as a politician.

It’s truly incredible what he has been able to get away with. I wish I was a politics undergrad again - the dissertation on psephology I could write would be fascinating.

Dg390 · 08/05/2021 16:27

Well we have 4 years of this to see what happens! Back to chores for me..

Onetoomuch · 08/05/2021 16:28

@CirclesWithinCircles god you sound condescending. Keir Starmers parents were a tool maker and nurse, he went to a state school. He was a human rights lawyer for years.
Keir Starmer bought the land for his mother years back when he was a lawyer so she could carry on running a donkey sanctuary with her husband. She was unable to walk due to a life limiting illness and the land was bought so she could still be involved. The land is now worth reportedly 10 million. I remember the daily mail using it as ammunition trying to trash him but they ended up looking foolish..
To think that an eton education doesn't bestow advantage is clearly naive, the guy was in the Bullingdon club fgs with other well connected men that he knew from Eton. Maybe read the tatler rather than Agameen Dagblag, you'll get a better handle on class in the UK Wink