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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To ask wtf is cis privilege and why does it need to be tackled

310 replies

KateWinceyette · 02/05/2021 22:28

Seriously, what is cis privilege? My phone doesn't know because it corrected it to customer privilege!

Please explain to me in simple terms for I am simply a woman who doesn't get it.

To ask wtf is cis privilege and why does it need to be tackled
OP posts:
Victoriabythesea · 03/05/2021 03:27

*Speedymarie

I think you might be brain dead @Victoriabythesea*

Always great to see the really terrible people reveal themselves straight away so I know not to waste any of my time reading any of your other replies.

Speedymarie · 03/05/2021 03:39

Ah well il be a terrible person, flap your lips away into the void. You can't change reality with sophistry.

unwuthering · 03/05/2021 04:01

To remove cis privilege is not to punish cis people but to take away the discrimination against trans people.

"Brain dead" was certainly short and to the point. Alternatively, one might say you are sadly a silly person, who has swallowed whole a silly but fashionable ideology that is eroding the hardwon rights of women and girls, and causing untold harm on a generation of young and vulnerable people affected by social contagion - which is criminal in my view.

DdraigGoch · 03/05/2021 06:05

It's not an attack on anyone saying they have it easy.
Oh but that's exactly how it is used in this Oppression Olympics. We keep being told how trans people are apparently the most oppressed in the world and that it's disgraceful that women should "want" lifesaving cancer operations when trans people "need" surgery.

BlackAlys · 03/05/2021 07:46

[quote Waitwhat23]Some experiences of academics working and studying in Universities - www.gcacademianetwork.org/[/quote]
Everyone should click on this link. Shocking.

WhoNeedsaManOfTheWorld · 03/05/2021 07:52

It's the same old male dominance dressed up as progressive

GlassBoxSpectacular · 03/05/2021 07:55

@StillWeRise

its a made up thing, it doesn't exist
This.

It’s utter bullshit.

And it’s never directed at men.

‘Cis privilege’ + ‘Be kind’ = ‘Shut the fuck up, person with a vagina. Stay in the box we’ve put you in’

Angry
Hotcuppatea · 03/05/2021 07:58

It's just bullshit. Like all TRA pronouncements, it collapses like a house of cards under any real scrutiny..

RedToothBrush · 03/05/2021 08:03

Its a way of pretending economic discrimination doesn't exist and that poverty is far more likely to hinder your life opportunities.

Its word salad made up by people with money.

Its fascinating to see how its mainly left wing women who objected to it in the uk initially, many with long track records fighting discrimination. They believe in women's rights, gay rights and workers rights. And have fought hard to gain them. Only to be smeared as right wing Christian fundamentalists which bares no resemblance to the truth.

Why? Ask why the need and desire to do this?

At the same time as being asked to suspend believe in sex and ignore its existence by being taught its a social construct. We all including trans activists, indeed trans activists in particular, know this isn't true. Trans is a reference to sex. You can't be trans without knowing your sex. You can't have a trans identity without acknowledging your sex.

The privilege here is being allowed to say this. Its not women who are allowed to do this. They are labelled as bigoted for mentioning that sex in sport is important because of hormones, muscle structure, muscle strength, height and lung capacity. We are allowed to point out that only women can give birth because of their sex and the can dress up however they bloody like they still run the risk of pregnancy unless they take contraception, harmful drugs with massive side effects and have invasive surgery. And even if infertile are seen as sexual objects and property first before humans. Or if they are past the age of fertility are thought of as bitter, over opinionated and undesirable. Or simply rape or sexual assault targets. All things primarily framed by the gaze of men wanting to get their leg over.

Thats supposed to be a privilege.

Again something framed by the gaze of men who see women's sexuality as their primary asset and get pissed off, if they want that for themselves.

If we dont reject this and decide to all become transman then we are accepting of all this as privilege. We endorse gender stereotypes which suggest our brains fall out at puberty and are happy at being leered at, groped or otherwise targeted physically or verbally for our bodies. Our sexed bodies.

Pointing out that there is are abnormally high correlations between young girls on social media in the west, autism, homophobia, sexual abuse, poor mental health and this manifesting in clusters which are not random in nature but socially connected is bigotted. Pointing out that there is a very definite difference between ages and onset of trans identity in males and females which in other medical settings would ring alarm bells about being completely different cohorts and causation is bigotted. This is because one group benefits from the existence of the other. In other situations you could point out the exploitation of women and girls by older males but not this one. Its not lost on me that the side effects of hormones and surgery are disproportionately worse for females who transition than men, but we can't talk about that. And that drugs used on children (mostly girls) are still experimental and we cant see the research into whether they provide benefits because thats bigotted.

Shouting about cis is supporting mens right activism and preventing proper discussion about where discrimination really happens. If we want to talk snd tackle discrimination we need to observe reality and tackle problems. Not bury heads in sand under the cover of cis nonsense.

Thats not to say trans people aren't discriminated against. Thats say that we can't talk about abuse, harm, economics, exploitation and violence because there is a social hierarchy we must observe which is completely blind to reality and to point this out is bigotted.

Cis privilege is a shield to stop discussion of this to protect males and to sustain ownership and control over women. The end.

And thats why the term is highly offensive.

Fnib · 03/05/2021 08:03

I've not read the full thread, but I've been trying to get my head around all this stuff for the best part of a year.
I do notice that trans women get very worked up when they get treated the same as actual women. They've mainly grown up with male privilege and don't seem to like it when they are overlooked and ignored, or have to deal with sexual harassment.

Neonprint · 03/05/2021 08:03

Seriously, what is cis privilege? My phone doesn't know because it corrected it to customer privilege

You know you can over ride auto correct?

EmpressWitchDoesntBurn · 03/05/2021 08:03

The only women I’ve seen identifying as cis are the ones who buy into gender ideology. Most feminists I know refuse on principle to identify with any gender, and are just women because our sex is female.

I do refer to my period as my ‘cis privilege’ nowadays though. Especially when it gets me up to change my bed at 2am.

ClarkeGriffin · 03/05/2021 08:05

I feel sorry for anyone teaching these wokewits today - what horrible entitled people they must be in order to enforce such batsh"t rules

Im just going to point out that its the main demographic of mumsnet (middle aged woman) who raised these people. There's probably even some posters on here who have raised their children to be this entitled. Grin

toconclude · 03/05/2021 08:07

@KateWinceyette

Seriously, what is cis privilege? My phone doesn't know because it corrected it to customer privilege!

Please explain to me in simple terms for I am simply a woman who doesn't get it.

Since you will no doubt have a lot of posts taking vicious swings at trans people, consider this - the privilege of being able to say those things about another human being and not only get away with it, but be actively praised for it. Try empathy, I hear it works if you take the blinkers off.
MarshaBradyo · 03/05/2021 08:10

I agree with pp it’s a way to silence women

It’s offensive and we shouldn’t have to have it applied to us

Sophoclesthefox · 03/05/2021 08:11

I have no idea how I can have cis privilege, when I don’t have a gender identity and am therefore not cis.

There are many ways we could reduce actual transphobia without forcing women to subscribe to an ideology that’s harmful to us.

And yes, it’s harmful. To describe myself as “cis” would mean that I accept that I have a gender identity that aligns with my sex, meaning that I accept that sex role stereotypes that are typically assigned to women- being nurturing, crying easily, enjoying romantic movies, not being able to read maps, not having a logical mind, wearing make up, having manicures, being driven by emotion- apply to me.

I don’t accept that. I’m a feminist, and I think sex role stereotypes/gender are the means by which women are controlled and demeaned. It’s a hierarchy- male over female, masculine over feminine, man over woman, and given that I never accepted that, I’m not likely to accept this new attempt to force people into gendered boxes.

The end result is that “woman” stops being a physical reality for women, and starts being an identity that can be held by males or females, and this erases the reality of what it’s like to go through the world in female body. If we can’t talk about sex, we can’t talk about sexism.

So no, cis privilege as a systemic thing is...not a thing.

Wrongsideofhistorymyarse · 03/05/2021 08:14

It's a way for men to claim they're oppressed by women. It's utter bollocks.

Sophoclesthefox · 03/05/2021 08:14

@ClarkeGriffin

I feel sorry for anyone teaching these wokewits today - what horrible entitled people they must be in order to enforce such batsh"t rules

Im just going to point out that its the main demographic of mumsnet (middle aged woman) who raised these people. There's probably even some posters on here who have raised their children to be this entitled. Grin

Did none of them have fathers? I can’t tell if you’re being sarcastic, but if not, that’s an amazing bit of woman blaming.
GlassBoxSpectacular · 03/05/2021 08:23

Did none of them have fathers? I can’t tell if you’re being sarcastic, but if not, that’s an amazing bit of woman blaming.

No. Because part of a woman’s ‘cis privilege’ is taking the blame for absolutely every fucking thing ever.

Eyewhisker · 03/05/2021 08:24

It’s the privilege a female athlete feels after training for 5 years then watching a transwoman take gold.

CirclesWithinCircles · 03/05/2021 08:35

A related serious issue is whether its worth risking damage to your career and 0rifessional reputation by teaching at a British University now.

I'm a professsional in a very well paid field, and its always been considered a positive for universities to get practitioners to teach, often part time for a few hours. They enable the universities to run high quality courses and lend a professional sheen to an otherwise entirely theoretical university exierience. It's often not very remunerative in real terms.

Now I'm questioning whether it's worth the risk/bother. I taught online in this way during covid. I was paid £25 per hour, while my 9rufessional rate is 10 times that and in reality I had to do 2 hours unpaid prep in addition to every hour paid to produce high quality work.

Nonetheless, there was a nasty little anonymous complaint from a student about me. Apparently, the quality of my sound wasn't great and my background was too bright. And i had to be informed of the complaint against me and discuss it with the head of department, who agreed it was silly but had to go through it. Another unpaid couple of hours on emails and discussions in total. And the WiFi and computer I used supplied free of charge by me to the university.

Students complain about everything and anything now, especially when they don't know you. Already, you have to be so careful about what you say.

A large proportion of university teaching staff in the UK are on similar contracts, reviewed periodically. I know that Edinburgh University prevailed upon its ad hoc staff to take a 10% pay cut a couple of years ago and has been plagued by strikes as a result.

So the staff get younger and less experienced, as more and more people are unwilling to do the job for low pay and risk of complaints.

ClarkeGriffin · 03/05/2021 08:52

Did none of them have fathers? I can’t tell if you’re being sarcastic, but if not, that’s an amazing bit of woman blaming.

Oh dear lord, its a joke. See the smiley grin at the end? Not meant to be taken seriously. Hmm

But someone did raise them that way obviously. They aren't born like that.

ErrolTheDragon · 03/05/2021 08:55

Cis privilege means never having bought cheap margarine or biscuits made with artificially hydrogenated fats.

YetAnotherSpartacus · 03/05/2021 09:02

Cis privilege means never having bought cheap margarine or biscuits made with artificially hydrogenated fats

So I do have it after all :)

NettleTea · 03/05/2021 09:02

@bellropes

Well, as a born female I can definitely say that all the sexual assault and harassment I've endured in my lifetime don't feel like privilege.
thats because being catcalled doesnt validify your femininity. I think it was Paris Lees who said they loved being catcalled, it turned them on