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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To ask wtf is cis privilege and why does it need to be tackled

310 replies

KateWinceyette · 02/05/2021 22:28

Seriously, what is cis privilege? My phone doesn't know because it corrected it to customer privilege!

Please explain to me in simple terms for I am simply a woman who doesn't get it.

To ask wtf is cis privilege and why does it need to be tackled
OP posts:
TinselAngel · 06/05/2021 12:15

@R0wantrees

I think sometimes this is as result of manipulation/coersion.
I think it's a also a way for some young women to show they're "not like the other girls."
DrSbaitso · 06/05/2021 12:49

I think it's a also a way for some young women to show they're "not like the other girls."

Good point. "Not like other girls" is a great way to control women. Maintain the stereotypes and make women terrified of being labelled with them, and also get them to help perpetuate them ("it's true, just not true of me") because they'll be hit with them if they argue against them.

I've always thought it was very telling that the insult of choice is "terf", always aimed at women of course. One might disagree that sex is immutable, definable, observable and sometimes important, but what part of that view is radical? And why does it call upon outdated negative portrayals of feminism, thus slurring the entire women's rights movement in the process? Gay and bi activists managed to make the case for equal rights without trying to invalidate the very concept of feminism, indeed they often saw them as important allies. Why is the very belief that sex exists and sometimes matters enough to throw you in with the imaginary radical, bra burning man haters?

Ereshkigalangcleg · 06/05/2021 13:16

I think she did it as a sort of attention seeking gotcha.

I can imagine.

R0wantrees · 06/05/2021 13:27

I think it's a also a way for some young women to show they're "not like the other girls."

Or as is more often the case, not like the older women.

toffeebutterpopcorn · 06/05/2021 13:58

That’s the metro! 🧛‍♀️ 🧄 ⛪️

doubleshotespresso · 06/05/2021 14:05

As far as I have gathered, it's nonsensical twaddle designed to fluster and intimidate any "menstruating person" from wanting to voice an opinion in order to protect the hard-fought rights of women, their privacy, rights to space and future well-being of our daughters.....

I have not found any explanation that goes beyond this...

Dragongirl10 · 06/05/2021 14:07

It doesn’t. It’s bollocks.

THIS ^^

StormTreader · 06/05/2021 14:14

Lol at the combination of "cis privilege isnt a thing" and "rofl bloke in a dress", it couldn't be any clearer. Everyone is revelling in woman being second-class citizens (which we are) while somehow also having a lovely time shoving trans people into a third-class citizen bracket as hard as you can.

Cis privilege is simply knowing that there may be many reasons you didnt get that job, but "lol they were a bloke in a dress, that application goes straight in the bin while we all have a big laugh" isn't one of them.

notanothertakeaway · 06/05/2021 14:26

How many transpeople are there? Seriously! How have they and their allies gained so much power?

@KateWinceyette I suspect the reason transwomen have so much power / influence is that because, underneath the dress, the insecurities and troubles......... is a male

DdraigGoch · 06/05/2021 15:07

@StormTreader

Lol at the combination of "cis privilege isnt a thing" and "rofl bloke in a dress", it couldn't be any clearer. Everyone is revelling in woman being second-class citizens (which we are) while somehow also having a lovely time shoving trans people into a third-class citizen bracket as hard as you can.

Cis privilege is simply knowing that there may be many reasons you didnt get that job, but "lol they were a bloke in a dress, that application goes straight in the bin while we all have a big laugh" isn't one of them.

Except that a "bloke in a dress" recently got appointed to a role running a rape crisis centre. A role which was advertised as being only open to women. That application certainly didn't go in the bin, despite the individual (never mind their sex) not really showing much in the way of qualifications or experience. It is women who are the third-class citizens here.

Transwomen have male privilege. The most effective privilege around.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 06/05/2021 15:33

Cis privilege is simply knowing that there may be many reasons you didnt get that job, but "lol they were a bloke in a dress, that application goes straight in the bin while we all have a big laugh" isn't one of them.

There may be many reasons why this male person didn't get the job, but misogyny, sexism and expectations around perceived child care needs aren't going to be one of them.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 06/05/2021 15:35

having a lovely time shoving trans people into a third-class citizen bracket as hard as you can

And this is ridiculous hyperbole. No one thinks they shouldn't have rights. We are only concerned about what they do because our rights are concerned with it. They just don't get to have every last little thing they demand, and to push women into third class, which is more true.

IloveJKRowling · 06/05/2021 16:03

Is it privilege to do most of the housework and childcare?

www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52808930

As Tinsel pointed out. In the experience of transwidows the desire to 'transition' doesn't extend to doing any of the unpaid work women do.

You'll note also how all the TRA arguments centre around transwomen (i.e. biological males), transmen don't get much of a look in. I wonder why? (hint: sex matters)

toffeebutterpopcorn · 06/05/2021 16:31

Some people have the privilege of being able to turn up to work dressed like a Crazy Horse dancer and know that no one will be able to say one word.

They can influence change in the workplace (not legal ones mind) to change recruitment policy and even facilities. Hey - want to get everyone’s email footers changed? Persuade your company to fundraise for a very specific charity?

Stomp over EA law because... they feel like it. Ignore the whole concept of ‘fair play’... because they feel like it.

Meanwhile us privileged folk are trying to juggle work and childcare (as well as taking care of elder relatives), doing the bulk of housework and family chores...

saoirse31 · 06/05/2021 16:38

It's a clever but hugely sexist campaign to assign victimhood and advantage to a very small group at the expense of a larger group. Interestingly the sex at birth of the two groups is different. Also interestingly there does not seem to be any similar campaign about the privilege of cis men.

Minezatea · 06/05/2021 17:51

"Cis privilege is simply knowing that there may be many reasons you didnt get that job, but "lol they were a bloke in a dress, that application goes straight in the bin while we all have a big laugh" isn't one of them."

Is this a bit like saying that if you're Asian, the reason you did not get the job is not because you are African? At the heart of the issue is racism.

At the heart of the issue re: getting jobs is assumptions that people make about your gender identity and what that means about you as a person and your skills etc. Women are significantly disadvantaged when applying or jobs, negotiating pay, getting promotions etc. So cis privilege is something only men can experience? And therefore something trans women had before transition?

ihateavacodos · 06/05/2021 19:01

A previous poster mentioned the lack of discussion around privilege and trans men. This isn't entirely true given the issues of chest/breast feeding and parent/mother. Rather they are just another group who like to piss walk all over the rights of cis women.

DdraigGoch · 06/05/2021 19:37

@ihateavacodos

A previous poster mentioned the lack of discussion around privilege and trans men. This isn't entirely true given the issues of chest/breast feeding and parent/mother. Rather they are just another group who like to piss walk all over the rights of cis women.
Who's driving the "chest-feeding" nonsense though? Is it actual trans-men or just activists (who could be TW or not trans)?
R0wantrees · 06/05/2021 19:46

A previous poster mentioned the lack of discussion around privilege and trans men.

Some TW will claim that TM acquire male privilege so within some trans communities young teenage females are seen as oppressors to older males.

mustlovegin · 06/05/2021 20:36

Scholars were handed the list of 'microinsults' as part of a nationwide drive to raise awareness for 'cisgender privilege' in universities

From the article, it's not clear who exactly is heading this 'drive' or who exactly is handing out this 'guidance'

The words 'privilege' anything and 'micro' anything should be banned.

Why are parents who pay $$$ for education putting up with this bullying? And I'm not singling out this particular issue, everyone everywhere is being censored about everything. This madness has gone too far now

DrSbaitso · 06/05/2021 22:16

@R0wantrees

A previous poster mentioned the lack of discussion around privilege and trans men.

Some TW will claim that TM acquire male privilege so within some trans communities young teenage females are seen as oppressors to older males.

It's life, Jim, but not as we know it.
NiceGerbil · 07/05/2021 00:11

Maybe this is because

Being recognised as a gender conforming male in society certainly confers privilege. For the white / no obvious disability etc ones anyway.

Between men then they do seem generally very hierarchical and also an awful lot of them are really uncomfortable with men who do not adhere to masculine norms/ do not show that they wish to if they don't quite make it. Men who are homosexual, men who are known to be bisexual, men who dress or act in any kind of 'feminine' way... A lot of men are deeply uncomfortable with that and will subtly or overtly show that, sometimes to the point of physical violence.

Certainly GNC men are privileged over non GNC men. Privileged meaning safer and not treated with suspicion etc.

Turning to women and girls. To be recognised as a girl or a woman in society comes with a host of stuff. GNC and homosexual/ known to be bisexual women are treated with suspicion - from what I have seen- mainly by men. I know that girls can be awful around this but I've not really seen it from adult women while I've seen lots from men and it goes up to physical violence/ sexual assault.

NiceGerbil · 07/05/2021 00:11

Oops pressed go to soon! Continuing...

NiceGerbil · 07/05/2021 00:23

To be recognised as a woman or girl means too often to be expected to defer to men and there can be difficulties if you don't.
To have to decide whether to let the persistent men down gently and they may not get the message or be more direct and risk aggression.
To be expected to limit your life in various ways to minimise risk. Whether you do or not is another question, you know if you don't and something happens it's your fault.
To be systemically economically disadvantaged due to a big mix of things- personal, social, government actions.
To be an outsider still in lots of workplaces.
To have it assumed that your looks are of extreme importance to you, also babies, getting a man, etc etc
And on and on.

The arguments around the cis topic seem to come mainly from trans women. Trans men seem pretty quiet.

And I wonder if it's just another male pov thing.

To go from conforming to non conforming male or trans woman must be very scary. You will lose privilege and be more exposed to male violence.

This is labelled cis privilege and simply applied to women as well. When it really isn't the same for us

All the posts about being scared to walk at night, worried about or experiencing sexual assault. Can cis people even imagine that?
Well women, yes of course. That's our lives. Men, not so much. Bit of a shock.

Yet in the end it is women who are being told we are privileged etc. I don't see men on Twitter etc getting the same responses.

So the age old dynamic is in place. Leave men alone to do their thing. Women are always in the wrong.

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