To ask wtf is cis privilege and why does it need to be tackled

[KateWinceyette]

Seriously, what is cis privilege? My phone doesn't know because it corrected it to customer privilege!

Please explain to me in simple terms for I am simply a woman who doesn't get it.

This is the same university that had a page of things that were transphobic that included things like believing there was any negative impact on women’s sex based rights from trans rights.

It’s a bit like the Chinese cultural revolution when those who had been upper-middle class/ wealthy /
landowners/ business owners / anyone they ruling class didn’t like would have to grovel and apologise and basically eat shit as the red guards beat/bullied and harassed them.

I’m sure if there was badges back then ‘as me about my imperial running dog privilege’.

Do I have privilege, I wanna know
How can I tell if I have privilege?
(Is it my periods)
Oh, no, you'll be deceived
(Or endometriosis)
Oh, no that's make believe
If you wanna know
(Shoop, shoop, shoop, shoop)
If you have privilege
(Shoop, shoop, shoop, shoop)
It's in your cis
(That's where it is, oh yeah)
(Or is it childbirth)
Oh no, it's just for fun
(No autonomy)
That's not for you and me
If you wanna know
(Shoop, shoop, shoop, shoop)
If you have privilege
(Shoop, shoop, shoop, shoop)
It's in your cis
(That's where it is)
Oh, it's in your cis
(That's where it is)
Whoa, rape threats, abuse and assault
That's what all the terfs know
If it's priv, if it really is
It's there in your cis
(How 'bout the no platforming)
Oh no, that's not the way
You're not listenin' to all I said
If you wanna know
(Shoop, shoop, shoop, shoop)
If you have privilege
(Shoop, shoop, shoop, shoop)
It's in your cis
(That's where it is)
Oh, It's in your cis
(That's where it is)
Ooh, oh it's in the cis
Oh, oh, it's in the cis
That's where it is
That's where it is

The ban on saying 'all women hate their periods' ; I think this is a way to stop the staff presenting another point of view to a young woman who wants to transition. or even being sympathetic! Young female student says 'I hate periods, I want to be a man'. Uni staff member wants to respond by sharing their experience... but now can't.

Similar to banning 'when I was a child I wanted to be a boy but I grew out of it'

These are the ones I find the most chilling, that women can't share their experiences. It will lead to, younger women saying 'why did nobody ever tell me?'

It means you have a privilege to never be discriminated against because of your cis status. It doesn't mean you're privileged in general and have it easy, it means if you come face to face with transphobia it won't affect you because you're not trans.

Most people don't have a gender identity so are not cis. It seems odd to separate out the very few cis people to say that they have privilege. Are they really more privileged than people who don't identify as cis (i.e. most of the population)? I don't get that. Yes, there is some trans hate around and that is, in part, due to perhaps a small minority of trans people who are aggressive and unable to listen to the impact of male privilege. But this term does not give us a way to discuss that.

Here is an article on their previous page.

www.scotsman.com/education/edinburgh-university-article-transphobia-sparks-protest-womens-rights-group-3102213

This article finishes with this:

A university spokesman said: “The University of Edinburgh is a safe place for difficult conversations. We are committed to defending freedom of speech and expression, as long as it is carried out within the law and in a respectful manner.

“The web-page in question was designed as a resource to support students, inform discussion, and help promote a respectful, diverse and inclusive community.

“Given the size of our community, it is inevitable that the ideas of different members will often and, quite naturally, conflict. We encourage members of our community to use their judgement and openly contest ideas that they oppose, and feel protected in doing so.”

So, if a feminist group put up their campaigning objectives which included provisions for single sex facilities where needed. And freedom of speech, that would be ok then wouldn’t it?

Of course, not to all those ‘educated and informed’ that those things were transphobic.... hmmm?

When this all calms down as it did decades ago over some other issues (it comes in phases) we should all just follow basic human and religious values - be kind to others.

if some huge 6 footer comes into your lecture hall and has put on his make up badly and has a dress on don't giggle and just carry on regardless. Be nice to people. We are taking all this far too far and damaging women but if we just remember that core issue - try to be kind to everyone we cannot go too far wrong.

It's women not being the right kind of women. Nice,inclusive ,welcoming and willing to have their rights trampled all over.

That's what it really comes down to.

It’s a bit like the Chinese cultural revolution when those who had been upper-middle class/ wealthy/landowners/ business owners / anyone they ruling class didn’t like would have to grovel and apologise and basically eat shit as the red guards beat/bullied and harassed them

Struggle session.

I can be kind

But I want to feel safe

When in women only spaces I don’t want a man in that space who feels like a women (even if he does present himself as female i can tell)

Women are always expected to be kind and put others first now we are expected to deal with feeling unsafe or uncomfortable why the fuck should we

@Xenia

When this all calms down as it did decades ago over some other issues (it comes in phases) we should all just follow basic human and religious values - be kind to others.

if some huge 6 footer comes into your lecture hall and has put on his make up badly and has a dress on don't giggle and just carry on regardless. Be nice to people. We are taking all this far too far and damaging women but if we just remember that core issue - try to be kind to everyone we cannot go too far wrong.

That only works if it's applied evenhandedly though. It always seems to be women who are expected to be kind to everyone else. Certainly be courteous, but at the moment 'kindness' to some people is directly resulting in unkindness to others.

I'm not at all sure that banning women from freely discussing periods etc is of any true kindness to anyone. As parents we know that you sometimes have to say "no" or be honest.

@StillWeRise

its a made up thing, it doesn't exist

Everything is ‘made up’ apart from the elements tho. Time, borders, marriage, all the Gods, all made up.

thats because being catcalled doesnt validify your femininity. I think it was Paris Lees who said they loved being catcalled, it turned them on

It was:

https://www.vice.com/en/article/zn7b79/enjoying-catcalls-paris-lees-column

This is kind of my problem with the debate around street attention. It’s part of a culture that infantilises women and teaches them to be constantly afraid. I wasn’t brought up that way and I don’t feel frightened when some spunky dude comes and talks to me. I hate this idea that all men are rapists-in-waiting and that all women are victims-in-waiting. It’s patronising and doesn’t help anyone. Many women are sexual and like to look and feel and be seen as sexual. I’m one of those women. But if I smile next time a man wolf-whistles at me, does that make me a bad person? What if the next person he wolf-whistles at is a woman who’s been raped? What if he ruins her day?

Nichi Hodgson, author of Bound to You, Men's Health sex columnist and director of the Ethical Porn Partnershipip_, says there’s a certain kind of middle-class woman that finds catcalls particularly galling: “There’s a sense of being sullied if an uncouth or lower-class kind of man – a white van man, for example – heckles. But if it's a Roger Sterling type who can just about pull it off with a certain retro-sexist panache, the offence isn't experienced the same.”^

No we know you weren't brought up that way Paris, having been brought up male.

And of course the problem is actually with the women, says "ethical porn" woman.

@Xenia

When this all calms down as it did decades ago over some other issues (it comes in phases) we should all just follow basic human and religious values - be kind to others.

if some huge 6 footer comes into your lecture hall and has put on his make up badly and has a dress on don't giggle and just carry on regardless. Be nice to people. We are taking all this far too far and damaging women but if we just remember that core issue - try to be kind to everyone we cannot go too far wrong.

But why is it always women told to be kind and compassionate? What about the others, are they being told to be kind? What about when they are sending rape and death threats on twitter, is that being kind?

Women have been kind, up until the point they realised that only complete capitulation to an ideology that seeks to erase us as a sex class is now being presented as reality. Then we stopped being kind and started being realistic.

People deserve respect, but ideas do not always deserve respect. And respect goes both ways - if someone is shouting me down as a t*rf and a bigot when I'm trying to engage in a normal discussion or debate, they are not respecting me or my views. So why should I automatically respect theirs.

You say 'we are taking this too far'...but it's not women doing this...it is a group of activists on a grab for power. This is not women's doing.

I've not read the full thread but one thing that strikes me;

A male person identifies as female and starts to present in a feminised way. Wether that male person is 15 or 50 they have had a lifetime of being treated as male, they "feel like a woman" but they don't actually know what being a woman is until the world starts to see them as a woman. I can imagine that this is a huge shock to the system when fantasy and reality collide.

They have privilege. Before - because of their upbringing and socialisation benefits, and now because society has deemed that they cannot be questioned, refused or debated.

To the PP who asked how did it come to this....because it hasn't been resisted properly. Because people are too afraid to speak up and say they are uncomfortable or don't agree. Because they get labelled hatful and bigoted and evil.

The only way to stop this overreach is to speak up, talk to your MP, talk to others and voice your concerns. The vast majority of people see this for what it is - a power grab.
If I can compel you to say something that I know you don't agree with - either through guilt, or bullying or harassment or shame, I have power over you. This is complete power play by a small group of activists, who need to be reigned in.

We need to be more vocal about resisting this or it will just keep going.

Pressed send too soon

So I imagine without a sensible woman saying to them, r even just a bit of introspection saying to them "welcome to the world of women" that can feel like privilege.

Wallace - love that song

The issue with "kindness" is not as simple as some people would like to make it.

1.There's this assumption that women will automatically be unkind /abusive/mean to a transwoman regardless of circumstances.

1. This kindness only works one way.

3.The definition of it has expanded so much that women standing up for their rights ,dignity and safety or even being worried/concerned about it is automatically abusive.

It's pure bullshit and a stick to beat down any woman who dares raise her head over the parapet.

For example, you are not questioned about what restroom you should be using, denied access to healthcare, misgendered when addressed or spoken about, asked what your "real" name is, or fearful of violence because of your gender presentation

But isn't this just normal life? If I'm a woman I go to the women's loo. If I nipped into the gents then I'd expect to be questioned.

or fearful of violence because of your gender presentation

The audacity to say this to women.

The answer to Lee's dilemma is simple - the man ought to consider the potential effect of his whistling or 'banter' on someone who might be a rape victim (or anyone else tbh) and desist. He can find alternative ways to interact sexually with those he has got to know well enough to know it would be appreciated. He doesn't need to be 'kind', just have a bit of basic respect and courtesy.