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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Losing friends due to who I'm marrying

551 replies

coppafeel · 02/05/2021 15:09

I'm due to marry someone, I hate to use the word 'famous' so I will say someone 'well known' - a D list celeb if you may. We are due to get married in December. Been with him for 2 years and throughout those 2 years I have been lost really good or so I thought, friends.

He is very controversial figure and so many of my friends have opinions about his views and can't even tolerate him for me. I'm at a loss of what to do, my friends were my life and were there for me through all the bad times but they have turned on me since meeting my partner. I can't just not be with the man I love because of their views but I don't understand why they cannot separate his views from me.

What can I do here?

OP posts:
Jocasta2018 · 03/05/2021 18:43

I read it & also thought Lawrence Fox....!

Tealightsandd · 03/05/2021 18:43

In addition, racism against Jewish people had its own name - antisemitism.

Whatever it's referred to, it racism. And I was responding to your post that claimed white people never experienced racism. I pointed out that many (but not all) Jewish people are white and definitely do experience racism.

Tealightsandd · 03/05/2021 18:43

*it's

Anon778833 · 03/05/2021 18:47

You know full well that I meant white people who are not also Jewish complaining that black people are racist against them

So just stop being so disingenuous and stop trying to score points.

whyayepetal · 03/05/2021 19:14

Another surrendered wife.

PanamaPattie has it in three words

Tealightsandd · 03/05/2021 19:16

Actually no I didn't sugar (sour might be more appropriate?). Why would I? I simply saw what you'd written - and remembered the unpleasant racism from the David Baddiel zoom chat thread last week, the racist yellow star wearing at a recent anti lockdown march, and listening to what my Jewish friends tell me of their own experiences - frequently having their encounters with racism dismissed (including sometimes being told it doesn't count because they are white).

I don't know why your replies are so aggressive. I assumed you hadn't thought of Jewish people when you posted. I never assumed it was anything deliberate or nasty. Why the defensive hostility?

BackforGood · 03/05/2021 19:16

People are right to challenge you SugarbabyMilly

It is a ridiculously naive thing that you said.

IsThePopeCatholic · 03/05/2021 19:19

@jb7445

Is it Boris? Piers Morgan? Jeremy Clarkson? Farage??
Yay!
poppycat10 · 03/05/2021 20:13

@SugarbabyMilly

of course white people experience racism. It's not the structural racism that non-white people face but there is race-related violence and white people who stray into the "Asian" areas of certain Northern towns will be intimidated into leaving them again. How is that not racism?

Oh ffs. I have to explain this, really? We live in a white supremacist world. No white person ever gets stared at in the street for being white or is passed over for promotion because they’re white, etc etc etc. White is seen as the default.

White people who go around whining that they’re victims of racism are pathetic.

Not pathetic. You didn't read my post properly. I said that white people do not encounter structural racism.

That does not mean that they can't experience racism on an individual basis.

Wrenna · 03/05/2021 20:20

Well if you were already married and Meliana Trump I’m afraid you’d lose me too. I assume a spouse agrees with Most of what their husband or wife does, not all obviously and if they were that controversial, yes it would affect how I’d feel.

clpsmum · 03/05/2021 20:24

@coppafeel he's not racist but he doesn't agree that black lives matter HmmConfused

Roboticcarrot · 03/05/2021 20:30

[quote clpsmum]@coppafeel he's not racist but he doesn't agree that black lives matter HmmConfused[/quote]
To be fair someone can feel that black lives matter, but not agree with the group spearheading the black lives matter movement, as they have plenty of beliefs beyond believing in equality.

apalledandshocked · 03/05/2021 20:46

@HalfCakeHalfBiscuit

Apparently Eva Braun's friends weren't too keen i her fiancé but he was kind to her dogs and a vegetarian so not all bad
He wasn't actually a vegitarian. That was propaganda. Also he did shoot his dogs at the end so..... not great...
apalledandshocked · 03/05/2021 20:46

vegetarian. FFS

DHdweller · 03/05/2021 21:52

Is that you Diane?

Thepennyhasdroppedq · 03/05/2021 22:20

Ditch the friends. I wouldn't care who my friends dated unless they were a pedophile or a murderer etc. Just because they may not agree with his views, it shouldn't stop them from speaking to you.

froggygoneacourting · 03/05/2021 22:23

I'm an orthodox Jew.

Please stop exploiting Jewish people and exploiting antisemitism in an attempt to downplay systemic racism.

(And please don't try to speak on behalf of Jewish people if you are not Jewish.)

Jewish people are victims of racism because white supremacy does not consider Jews to be white.

There is a huge and complex debate going back a very long time, over whether Ashkenazim are white or not. Plenty of people both within the Jewish community and outside of it, make the argument that Jewish people are not white. Obviously there's a lot of dissent and some people (again both Jewish people and non) find that opinion/belief wrong and offensive.

But the fundamental fact is: white supremacists do not consider Jews to be white. Period. Regardless of the colour of our skin. Even the lightest skinned Jewish person is only at best conditionally white.
Jewish people are never fully accepted as white, which is why we're one of the main groups targeted by white supremacists.

At very best, we're victims of racism despite the colour of our skin, which is a totally different thing from being victims of racism because of the colour of your skin.

Besides the entire argument ignores and further marginalises Jews of colour, and ignores the huge and complex racial hierarchy that exists within the Jewish diaspora and within Israel, where Beta Jews are actively oppressed by the government, division and exclusion of Mizrahi and Sephardic communities directly facilitates and empowers groups like Lehava, and the insidiousness of Ashkenormativity creates harmful divisions.

And if anyone read the above paragraph and didn't know what half those words mean, that's absolutely fine because we don't expect you to and it's a dialogue. But if you don't know what half those words mean and you're debating antisemitism online despite not being Jewish, please take a seat and open a book.

And for the love of G*d please stop exploiting us to further racism.

Bigbluebuttons · 03/05/2021 23:13

@froggygoneacourting that was so eloquently put. I didn’t understand/hadn’t heard of some of it, and a section of my family is Jewish. Am now googling.

CorianderBee · 03/05/2021 23:23

If my mate married a racist then I'd think she must be secretly racist/biased or at least didn't take great issue with racism. I'd cut you off without hesitation. I don't condone racists and so wouldn't associate with a person who is racist or accepting of racism.

CorianderBee · 03/05/2021 23:24

And disagreeing that black peoples lives matter is distinctly very racist. No matter how he phrased it that means he thinks black peoples lives have less worth than other peoples. Disgusting.

NotAnotherAlias · 03/05/2021 23:31

@poppycat10 Minceiri (Irish Travellers) are white and experience structural racism.

Mydogmylife · 03/05/2021 23:46

@froggygoneacourting

I'm an orthodox Jew.

Please stop exploiting Jewish people and exploiting antisemitism in an attempt to downplay systemic racism.

(And please don't try to speak on behalf of Jewish people if you are not Jewish.)

Jewish people are victims of racism because white supremacy does not consider Jews to be white.

There is a huge and complex debate going back a very long time, over whether Ashkenazim are white or not. Plenty of people both within the Jewish community and outside of it, make the argument that Jewish people are not white. Obviously there's a lot of dissent and some people (again both Jewish people and non) find that opinion/belief wrong and offensive.

But the fundamental fact is: white supremacists do not consider Jews to be white. Period. Regardless of the colour of our skin. Even the lightest skinned Jewish person is only at best conditionally white.
Jewish people are never fully accepted as white, which is why we're one of the main groups targeted by white supremacists.

At very best, we're victims of racism despite the colour of our skin, which is a totally different thing from being victims of racism because of the colour of your skin.

Besides the entire argument ignores and further marginalises Jews of colour, and ignores the huge and complex racial hierarchy that exists within the Jewish diaspora and within Israel, where Beta Jews are actively oppressed by the government, division and exclusion of Mizrahi and Sephardic communities directly facilitates and empowers groups like Lehava, and the insidiousness of Ashkenormativity creates harmful divisions.

And if anyone read the above paragraph and didn't know what half those words mean, that's absolutely fine because we don't expect you to and it's a dialogue. But if you don't know what half those words mean and you're debating antisemitism online despite not being Jewish, please take a seat and open a book.

And for the love of G*d please stop exploiting us to further racism.

👏👏👏
Gilead · 04/05/2021 07:00

Well said, @froggygoneacourting!

DurhamDurham · 04/05/2021 07:05

Are you Lawrence Fox's fiancée? He had some weird views as far as I can tell and keeps piping up to try to stay relevant and in the public eye.

RickiTarr · 04/05/2021 07:18

[quote VladmirsPoutine]@ZoeCM Social workers trained in karate? Grin There are valid arguments r.e. police abolition. In my experience the police make situations exponentially worse and no amount of reform is going to change it - reforming the police is a bit like asking for a make-over but as well as dyeing your hair, asking the hair dresser to also give you new DNA.[/quote]
It depends so much on the context though doesn’t, it?

If the situation is a demonstration being kettled, or stop and search, or driving whilst black, then yes absolutely police as we know them are generally going to make stuff worse.

OTOH, if your partner is beating or strangling you, if your child is missing, if your car has been stolen, you need someone to save you quickly, mount a serious and expensive search or just issue a crime number.

I tend to think that people who think the police are fine as they are, are white, over 45, upper middle and live in the shires. Like all the bizarre people in lockdown getting not under the collar about the prospect of the police requesting their name and address.

I also tend to think that to support defunding the police, you have to have been lucky not to have ever experienced violent crime or similar. We’ve got very miserly police budgets already, which might be part of the problem.

Maybe we should split our police into two organisations, the way so many continental countries do? Have a peace-keeping & street patrol force which we start from scratch but that reflects local demographics? Then have a separate detective division?

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