To find it unacceptable that society in general expects women to do most domestic tasks

[nonaomi]

I still think most men and women think that women are responsible for 'housework'. It's often joked about how men are 'messy' and 'useless'..and lots of women I know, don't seem to mind this role.

Is this just in my circle, or is that other's experience too ?

The idea of a ' new man' was created in the 80s , but it sadly has died a death over the years and it's gone back to the days of old when women do everything :( not sure why or how it's become this way.
It is sad.

Not the case in my circle.

But I’ve never met a man who claimed to love cleaning the way some women do. Not sure what that’s all about.

I like living in a clean, tidy home. DH does too. So we both do it. I wouldn’t have moved in with him never mind marrying him or having a child with him if he didn’t care about his surroundings or got on with doing what was needed to maintain them to a decent standard.

All the men I know do their fair share of house work, child care etc

Again not in my circle. People I know just wouldn’t put up with it.
I had a long term ex fiancé and we totally shared the house chores, he did slightly more than me if anything as he WFH.

Current DP is the tidiest person I’ve ever met.
I wouldn’t continue a relationship with anyone that expected a maid.

I saw this topic and I knew, knew, knew the first umpteenth messages would be claiming that their Dh/DP and that of all their friends does their "fair share" or "even more" of the housework.

Without fail, every bloody time this comes up, online or irl, people will jump in to point out how their amazing husbands and partners and those of their friends do their "fair share".

I simply don't understand where all the scientific evidence-based surveys and studies showing time, and time, and time again that women are doing FAR MORE than men in domestic labour are coming from. Maybe they are studying Martian women ?

Not in my circle either. Lots of shared parental leave and ongoing arrangements with both parents working different patterns to accommodate childcare, equal amounts of cooking and cleaning etc and taking on the mental load as far as I see.

Women do it all in ' my circle' of friends and always have done.
I am older than many mumsnetters so maybe this is why?

Oh yes, and I'm waiting for the comment that "well, women choose to do it! They could just refuse! Nobody is forcing them!"

Sorry for the outburst, but as a lone parent who absolutely didn't choose my current situation of caregiving and it was absolutely thrust upon me, this discussion enrages me every time it comes up, and it comes up A LOT.

My father is the most old fashioned, sexist dinosaur I’ve ever known and he does all the cooking and most of the cleaning in my parents house. Actually he used to do the cleaning, now he pays for a cleaner.

Y would not BU if that were the case, but YABU to think that is the case.
Not my experience at all.

I am older than many mumsnetters so maybe this is why?
My parents are 68 and 72. PIL are 68 and 75. In both cases it is my mum and MIL who do nearly all the cooking by dad and FIL do all the clearing and cleaning of the kitchen. My dad does all the laundry and FIL does all the hoovering.

My mum didn't work after she had me but my dad was always around and a fully involved parent. FIL retired early and MIL went to university then as a mature student so a lot of childcare was on FIL then.

@Evelight

I saw this topic and I knew, knew, knew the first umpteenth messages would be claiming that their Dh/DP and that of all their friends does their "fair share" or "even more" of the housework.

Without fail, every bloody time this comes up, online or irl, people will jump in to point out how their amazing husbands and partners and those of their friends do their "fair share".

I simply don't understand where all the scientific evidence-based surveys and studies showing time, and time, and time again that women are doing FAR MORE than men in domestic labour are coming from. Maybe they are studying Martian women ?

People are influenced by the people they hang out with. So it does make sense that people in fairly equal relationships will be friends with others who are similar as they've probably developed those values and relationships alongside each other.

I consider men who don't cook or clean not to be housetrained 😂 How embarrassing not to be able to cook yourself some food or know how to wash your own clothes!

Some of my circle would say the same but I know a few couples where the women seem to do maybe a 70% of cleaning and 50/50 with cooking. I'm 30 so not super young x

Evelight

I simply don't understand where all the scientific evidence-based surveys and studies showing time, and time, and time again that women are doing FAR MORE than men in domestic labour are coming from.

I love that you think the surveys are "evidence based", mostly it is annocdotal.

Not the case in my circle, in fact my DH is much better at the domestics than I am

I agree @DappledThings

However, Evelight, the point you are making isn't the same as the OP asked.
OP siad "I still think most men and women think that women are responsible for 'housework'."

You are talking about women doing more than half. That isn't the same question. Over the years, I've done more than half, because I have been lucky enough to work fewer hours than dh. That is replicated in a lot of families. It doesn't mean either he, or I think it is all my responsibility though.

Women do it all in ' my circle' of friends and always have done.
I am older than many mumsnetters so maybe this is why?

From your user name I'm going to take a stab at the fact you aren't that far from my age (mid 50s), and that isn't my experience.
Indeed, it wasn't my Mum and Dad's experience and they would be in their 90s if still with us.

I grew up with a dad that did more than his fair share so I thought the 'domestic slave woman, provider man' stereotype was from the olden days until I got married! Sadly my ex-husband didn't grow up with a role model like my dad and expected my to do EVERYTHING domestic/child related once the first born arrived.

It has since opened my eyes to the fact that this is still very common.

@the80sweregreat

The idea of a ' new man' was created in the 80s , but it sadly has died a death over the years and it's gone back to the days of old when women do everything :( not sure why or how it's become this way. It is sad.

Totally agree, I remember reading Parenting and Mother and baby with dh. M&B named because it was more to do with women post birth etc. Men were expected to be equal ito domestic and parenting. What's more they wanted to, and looked down at useless men. I have a theory that because we can outsource more that women don't expect the same from their partners, I could be wrong.

I think it does vary between different social circles. I’m not sure what my friends partners actually do, but it would be seen as hugely problematic if they didn’t share the housework 50/50. So, it may not actually happen but it’s definitely seen as what should be happening iyswim.

Here is an article based on research, not anecdotal:
www.theguardian.com/inequality/2018/feb/17/dirty-secret-why-housework-gender-gap

There's tons more, for anybody who cares to look.

@BackfoGood I appreciate the distinction, but the two questions bleed into each other. Regardless of individual numerous anecdotes about all these amazing Dads and Husbands here, as a society, we have decided that the responsibility for housework and domestic labour is for women. Hence, we see women "choosing" to assume responsibility for housework, much to their own financial detriment.

And the pandemic has made this much, much worse.

I think Mrs Hinch has set feminism back a good 50+ years personally. Women fawning over her books about cleaning and cleaning products she promotes. We fought so hard to not be domestic goddesses for so many years and now women are practically falling over themselves at the sight of a bottle of fucking cherry scented disinfectant.

everyone i know including me has a cleaner

DH does do 80% of the cooking, I hate it.

@Thatisnotwhatisaid I have to say that phenomenon confused me, what the fuck is desirable or aspirational about cleaning?

This isn't normal in my circle either, most of us work compressed hours on opposing weeks to pick up childcare, earn relatively similar and outsource what we can't do.

I'll be incendiary here and expect to get fully flamed but if you want a certain lifestyle you need the education to pay for it and that means staying in education as a GIRL and getting a decent career at the end of it, and not giving it up because you had a kid and fell in love with someone.