To find it unacceptable that society in general expects women to do most domestic tasks

[nonaomi]

I still think most men and women think that women are responsible for 'housework'. It's often joked about how men are 'messy' and 'useless'..and lots of women I know, don't seem to mind this role.

Is this just in my circle, or is that other's experience too ?

I don't think society in general does. Of most of my close friends whilst the woman may undertake a higher proportion of home related duties, this is often where their husband is out of the house 12+ hours per day and they are not.
Equally we have friends where the woman is the higher powered career wise and the husband takes on the lion's share of the household stuff.
Providing both parties have equal relaxation time there is no issue.

My grandparents shared the cooking. The cleaner cleaned. The laundry girl laundered. My grandmother worked and had oversight of a family business.
My parents shared the cooking, the cleaner cleaned and ironed. My mother worked.
DH doesn't cook and I don't mind because I love cooking - I find it soothing and enjoyable. DH can put on a load, empty the dishwasher, he does the bins. He is very very tidy. The cleaner cleans and irons.

For context My grandmother would now be 110, my mother is 84 and I am 61.

IME it's a class issue.

@RosesAndHellebores ooh interesting. How is it a class issue ?

Why do you think @nonaomi?

@RosesAndHellebores I'm not sure. You said it. So I just wondered what you meant.

@RosesAndHellebores are you saying higher class people don't worry about it because they have cleaners, so it's a non issue?

@AnneLovesGilbert

Not the case in my circle.

But I’ve never met a man who claimed to love cleaning the way some women do. Not sure what that’s all about.

I like living in a clean, tidy home. DH does too. So we both do it. I wouldn’t have moved in with him never mind marrying him or having a child with him if he didn’t care about his surroundings or got on with doing what was needed to maintain them to a decent standard.

My DH loves cleaning, we usually do a deep clean together every Saturday and actually have to take turns over certain jobs since we both want to do them.

I also have 3 brothers and a dad who like tidy houses and therefore pull their weight in their families. Reading about 95% of DH/DPs on MN is like learning another species!

[quote nonaomi]@RosesAndHellebores ooh interesting. How is it a class issue ? [/quote]
It's having a money to pay for it issue which is by default a class issue.

However when we were skint the husband did all the cleaning i did all the shopping / cooking / kid stuff. I would never tolerate a man who didn't do half in some way.

@idontlikealdi yeah fair enough. But one party manages the cleaner and in my circle, that's the women too. The men don't have much to do with the chores ( even managing the cleaner falls down to the women ).

Not in my experience at all as an under 30 female. I do all the child related stuff in the daytime when he is at work but he would not expect the housework to also be done. Of course if I have time I will do some but the children take priority. When he comes home from work (or out of the 'home office these days) he cooks and does the kids bedtime as he enjoys doing that and I get some time to myself at that stage although I usually end up sorting things for DC for the following day at that state. The general cleaning, doing washing is probably a 50/50 split as is the weekend childcare although I would say he possibly does more share of that than me at the weekends by doing the early mornings with the children etc.
Just because people feel like society dictates something doesn't mean that we all have to follow what we think society expects of us.
In my friendship group of all similar age to myself up to late 30s with young DC there seems to be a fairly even balance between husband and wife in household chores.

Sorry but I would never allow this to happen to myself. I am ridiculously clean but never will I clean up for a man like this. Fuck that

Luckily everyone I’ve dated inc DP, and even guys that I lived with back at uni, have always done their fair share. I have never felt like a maid.

I do most domestic stuff plus organising dcs clothes and homework (I do 100percent lunches and cooking)

Dh empties bins and DIY (but he does a lot of work as we are basicakly rebuilding a house)

If he were to cook the kitchen would be in a mess. He would use 8 chicken fillets for 4 of us. So I just do it.

@Evelight

I saw this topic and I knew, knew, knew the first umpteenth messages would be claiming that their Dh/DP and that of all their friends does their "fair share" or "even more" of the housework.

Without fail, every bloody time this comes up, online or irl, people will jump in to point out how their amazing husbands and partners and those of their friends do their "fair share".

I simply don't understand where all the scientific evidence-based surveys and studies showing time, and time, and time again that women are doing FAR MORE than men in domestic labour are coming from. Maybe they are studying Martian women ?

This.

I often find some women think fair share is their DH does DIY and grass cutting (aka jobs that rarely need doing) and they do cooking, laundry and dishes (everyday jobs)

Not here either. None of my friends are sahps though which I think makes the difference and makes for more equal sharing of parenting and household tasks.

I can see why some feel that way as it’s only fair of one opts out of working they do the house stuff as they have all day every day free.

Just as there will always be men who do their fair share, there will also be men trying to take advantage of women who pick up the iron sighing how societies' expectations are unfair.
You ARE society, so if you want things to change start with yourself.
It's up to every person to learn to set boundaries and leave relationships where there are constantly trampled.

@Evelight

I saw this topic and I knew, knew, knew the first umpteenth messages would be claiming that their Dh/DP and that of all their friends does their "fair share" or "even more" of the housework.

Without fail, every bloody time this comes up, online or irl, people will jump in to point out how their amazing husbands and partners and those of their friends do their "fair share".

I simply don't understand where all the scientific evidence-based surveys and studies showing time, and time, and time again that women are doing FAR MORE than men in domestic labour are coming from. Maybe they are studying Martian women ?

I totally agree. The trouble is, people only sing when they're winning. Who wants to shout about the fact that their OH is taking the piss?

Based on our circle of family and friends, I feel rather blessed with my DP.

He's always done his fair share of the childcare, he's fab at DIY and more than happy to get stuck in and, with housework, he's far more "on it" than I am! He's a little OCD about things being clean and tidy!

However, in our circle, this is rare. Most men don't do the housework or childcare. I know of several couples where the man has never got up for a night feed or changed a nappy! The running of the house is left to the women and their DPs act like hero's if they do the washing up once a week.

Each tk their own, but, it wouldn't be for me!!

@AnneLovesGilbert

Not the case in my circle.

But I’ve never met a man who claimed to love cleaning the way some women do. Not sure what that’s all about.

I like living in a clean, tidy home. DH does too. So we both do it. I wouldn’t have moved in with him never mind marrying him or having a child with him if he didn’t care about his surroundings or got on with doing what was needed to maintain them to a decent standard.

I’ve only ever encountered women who are obsessively houseproud and claim they can’t sit down at night until all is tidy on here. Likewise, I’ve only ever encountered accounts of men who don’t do any housework or cooking on here. It’s a shared job for everyone I know in RL. Both people work.

DH does all the cooking, grocery shopping and most of the laundry here. I do the cleaning, bed making, baking, and more of the school runs.

I recall at ds1s christening 25 years and more ago now. MIL asked/said "now you are at home/going to work part time, I assume you will be cancelling that cleaner?". It was one of the few times my mother had my back "goodness Joan, did you bring your girls up to clean despite those super universities?".

MIL was a deputy head. She waited on FIL like a handmaid, down to sugaring his tea. Never let anyone help and always complained about how much time the jobs took and how tedious they were. Paradoxically her house was never spotless, no-one was well pressed and she is a poor cook. My gran was spotless and well turned outside her jodhpurs (though they were clean on) my mother is immaculate in every way and I am similar. SILs are grubby and bang on about cleaning being menial and appearance being irrelevant. The one with children does share the domestic load equally with her DH, ie, neither of them do much - the house is a shambles and the dc are unboundaried. Neither SIL has ever done a full-time, full on professional job despite their Russell Group Universities about which MIL still bangs on.

My DH loves cleaning, we usually do a deep clean together every Saturday

Natty13 - What does a deep clean involve? Genuine question as I only ever hear of it on MN and wonder what it is.

I'm a HOD and my fiancé works. I do all the cleaning.

His parents are very dirty. He doesn't see why you should clean until things are actually dirty. But then he doesn't seem to register when things are dirty. I'm a very clean person and I do 30 mins a day straight after work while he is finishing up at work.

It's not fair and sometimes I feel grumpy about it but if I'm honest cleaning helps me unwind from work weirdly and going on a strike would just make me feel terrible - I couldn't cope with the place being dirty while I waited for him to pick up the slack. He would be oblivious. He is the perfect partner in every other way and while this irritates me, it isn't a deal breaker for me. If we shared the housework, I would need to compromise on the level of cleanliness as he thinks I'm a bit over the top with cleaning and I'm not really willing to do that.

Absolutely agree. Gender stereotyped roles are damaging and wrong. Same goes for men that don't sew, women who don't do DIY projects or don't do maths (which seems an issue with a lot of my friends why is it acceptable to say that). All gender stereotyping of roles cause problems from unpaid work right the way through the workplace and up into the corridors of power.

@ceejly I broke off with a boyfriend in my very early 20s because he was untidy and happy to live in a hovel. He would never have helped. I wasn't prepared to settle.

@nonaomi

I still think most men and women think that women are responsible for 'housework'. It's often joked about how men are 'messy' and 'useless'..and lots of women I know, don't seem to mind this role.

Is this just in my circle, or is that other's experience too ?

Not in my circle but something you often see on mumsnet I guess.

In the nicest way possible, a lot of it comes down to women putting up with useless men and then moaning that their partners are useless.

Live with someone first. If they're lazy, don't contribute and think it's all women's work do not marry them or worse, have kids with them!! It's honestly not rocket science.

@RosesAndHellebores Fair enough. It's not a deal-breaker for me. I don't feel that I'm settling. No one is perfect and this is the way in which my fiancé is imperfect.

My husband isn't remotely lazy, useless or misogynist, and he's less messy by nature than I am. He does do a lot less housework than me though.

Although there is a perfectly good reason for this, in that he works long hours in a stressful job and I work very part time, and I very much have the easier life, things only turned out this way because I fairly unthinkingly allowed myself to end up in the 'support' role as a consequence of stepping off the career ladder and going part time when we had dc. If I had my time again, I'm not sure whether or how I'd do things differently, but at least I'd know what I was letting myself in for.