Page 3 | To find it unacceptable that society in general expects women to do most domestic tasks

nonaomi · 2021-05-01T20:45:44+00:00

I still think most men and women think that women are responsible for 'housework'. It's often joked about how men are 'messy' and 'useless'..and lots of women I know, don't seem to mind this role. Is this just in my circle, or is that other's experience too ?

BadEyeBri · 02/05/2021 10:16

DH and myself are both equally slovenly. The cleaner comes once a week and takes the bad look off things. DH cooks and shops. I do the laundry. We take turns putting the robot hoover on.
We are equally crap

KateWinceyette · 02/05/2021 10:32

DH and myself are both equally slovenly

How bad do you let it get for the cleaner? How long do they come for?

Mummy1608 · 02/05/2021 10:35

@BadEyeBri

DH and myself are both equally slovenly. The cleaner comes once a week and takes the bad look off things. DH cooks and shops. I do the laundry. We take turns putting the robot hoover on. We are equally crap

This is us too... My DH makes breakfast, does the food dishes and the bins, does general tidying (rarely), shops for groceries. I do the laundry, wash the baby bottles, clean the dining room and kitchen sometimes, manage the cleaner, shop for all baby needs and non-groceries. I also We share: making lunch and dinner, nappy changes, baby bathtime. The cleaner comes once a week and does all other cleaning.

We live in a clean but very untidy house. I think my DH does more than me tbh but I'm breastfeeding all night long

Pyewackect · 02/05/2021 10:37

@tecatea

DH does do 80% of the cooking, I hate it.

Same here.

notanothertakeaway · 02/05/2021 10:39

@Evelight

I saw this topic and I knew, knew, knew the first umpteenth messages would be claiming that their Dh/DP and that of all their friends does their "fair share" or "even more" of the housework.

Without fail, every bloody time this comes up, online or irl, people will jump in to point out how their amazing husbands and partners and those of their friends do their "fair share".

I simply don't understand where all the scientific evidence-based surveys and studies showing time, and time, and time again that women are doing FAR MORE than men in domestic labour are coming from. Maybe they are studying Martian women ?

I agree with @Evelight

Looking around my friends, family and neighbours, women do most of the daily household tasks. And many, many people post on here complaining about their useless partners

Natty13 · 02/05/2021 10:40

@Evelight

I saw this topic and I knew, knew, knew the first umpteenth messages would be claiming that their Dh/DP and that of all their friends does their "fair share" or "even more" of the housework.

Without fail, every bloody time this comes up, online or irl, people will jump in to point out how their amazing husbands and partners and those of their friends do their "fair share".

I simply don't understand where all the scientific evidence-based surveys and studies showing time, and time, and time again that women are doing FAR MORE than men in domestic labour are coming from. Maybe they are studying Martian women ?

See I have done that on this thread but not because I'm disagreeing that it's a massive problem in society and for the majority of women it seems. I just wanted to make my point that "men just don't bother to have clean houses" "men just don't see what needs done" etc are bullshit. I firmly believe lazy men do what they can get away with. I would rather be single for the rest of my life than live like a maid or mum figure to a grown man who expects me to mother him and also have sex with him. I think it's not a councidence I seem to have only ever attracted men who are mature, clean, tidy and hard working outside of their actual jobs. My brother once broke up with a girl because she was really lovely but wanted to almost wait on him hand and foot.

It's a massive problem but we don't help ourselves. We didn't get the vote by men giving it to us did we? We got it by fighting for it. This is not going to change u til we stop putting up with it from our husbands and raise our sons to not be men who don't know how to start a washing machine without being told to.

AnneLovesGilbert · 02/05/2021 10:42

If OP only wanted replies from women married to misogynist losers who think cleaning and cooking are below them I’m afraid I missed that. Are we not allowed to comment saying that while many people undoubtedly have an unfair split of shit work in their relationships that’s not the case for all of us?

Some of the replies read like we must be lying because that makes people living miserable unfair lives feel better.

RosesAndHellebores · 02/05/2021 10:52

Hmm
When the DC were younger and I was working full-time but before my career took off:

I dropped the DC to school and started work at 9.15; usually home by 6.15. At that time DH left the house at 6.30ish and was home at 9.30ish.

The au-pair did the laundry, collected DC and took them to clubs, unloaded the shopping delivery weekly and the dishy daily, cooked their supper and kept their rooms tidy. The cleaner did the cleaning.

Admittedly I did the lion's share of domestic admin, parents' evenings, etc, (DH paid the fees). I don't think DH attended more than a handful of parents' evenings - did if there was an issue and I wanted him to. DH ferried DS to fixtures at weekends and watched as much as poss; I did dd's drops for music and concerts.

Ultimately we had equal time for relaxation and that's what made things fair. Very early on we agreed and DH made it clear that he would not be doing housework or cooking because he disliked them equally. That was fine because he was happy to pay for and could pay for help.

It helps that he is very tidy and pernickety and will getnout the windolene if there is a smear on a mirror.

HelplessProcrastinator · 02/05/2021 10:58

Maybe if women had higher expectations men would step up. My MIL didn't pander to her only son so I got a DH who was already house trained. Most couples live together before marriage/DC so you do have an opportunity to see what they are like before getting hitched. My dad was ex military and a neat freak so was quite capable round the house. My brother and SIL both work the same hours and have the same responsibility for childcare and housework. It is possible. I just wouldn't of had DC with a lazy arse. On the other hand by DH didn't want a SAHM and didn't want to be the sole earner so you make your choices.

Phineyj · 02/05/2021 11:02

Every time there's a thread about this on Mumsnet this happens. I've been told by so many people on here that they have a totally equal relationship in this regard. I look around me and I don't see it. My own DH is pretty decent in this regard but he doesn't do 50%. He does do way more than any of my friends' DHs, because I ensure he does.

Look into this in the so-called equal relationships and 9/10 you will find the woman doing the planning ahead. Except for second marriages.

StripeyDeckchair · 02/05/2021 11:11

I like my home to be clean & tidy, so does DP. Neither of us are big fans of cleaning.
We have 4 children & both work FT so pay someone to come in to clean & do some of the washing (bed changes, towels). We are fortunate to be able to afford this and recognise that it frees up a lot of time for us at the weekends.

lazylinguist · 02/05/2021 11:23

It's not reasonable to expect every reply to be "Yes, men are all shit!". Apart from anything else, I think it's really important to recognise that men being lazy, sexist and/or useless is far from being the only cause of women doing the lion's share of domestic work. It is all too easy to slide into these roles due to circumstances surrounding parenthood, maternity leave, flexible working etc. And once you're set on that path it's sometimes difficult to change it.

Evelight · 02/05/2021 14:13

I wanna clarify, I'm not saying that ppl should not post their experiences, or disagree with OP's post. I have an "Amazing Dad" (tm) myself, who is chopping onions as we speak. My brothers do their "Fair Share" (tm, again) of their housework, one of them does far more as his wife is the main/high earner. So I am familiar and have been raised with the idea that your genitals shouldn't determine the amount of housework you do.,

However, my point is, this discussion is a bit like "Not All Men"- whenever, not just here on this forum, it comes up, it gets drowned out by (presumably) women insisting that THEIR husbands and dads are Amazing and do their Fair Share, and isn't it women's fault anyway for sheepishly "agreeing" to do all that crummy housework for free?

Rather than a proper acknowledgement and discussion of what we all know is true, and has been confirmed again, and again, and AGAIN, that women are burdened by housework fair greater than men- and they pay a financial price in terms of their financial stability and future prospects because of this. And this is getting worse because of the pandemic. How can we stop this? How can we elevate women out of this financial instability and unfair division labour?

OK, tell us some some more about your amazing husbands doing all the dishes and how you hate cooking.

BackforGood · 02/05/2021 14:17

And the pandemic has made this much, much worse.

??
Where is your evidence for this ?
My dh has been around a lot more, and therefore more able to do stuff at home due to wfh for 14months

Evelight · 02/05/2021 14:26

Google "women work pandemic"- this is the first result that comes up and there is much more:

www.bbc.com/news/world-55016842

Policy-makers in Canada have openly acknowledged the negative effect of the pandemic on women- the newly proposed budget reflects this. It's not jus Canada though of course.

Original poster

nonaomi · 02/05/2021 15:43

@Evelight

I wanna clarify, I'm not saying that ppl should not post their experiences, or disagree with OP's post. I have an "Amazing Dad" (tm) myself, who is chopping onions as we speak. My brothers do their "Fair Share" (tm, again) of their housework, one of them does far more as his wife is the main/high earner. So I am familiar and have been raised with the idea that your genitals shouldn't determine the amount of housework you do.,

However, my point is, this discussion is a bit like "Not All Men"- whenever, not just here on this forum, it comes up, it gets drowned out by (presumably) women insisting that THEIR husbands and dads are Amazing and do their Fair Share, and isn't it women's fault anyway for sheepishly "agreeing" to do all that crummy housework for free?

Rather than a proper acknowledgement and discussion of what we all know is true, and has been confirmed again, and again, and AGAIN, that women are burdened by housework fair greater than men- and they pay a financial price in terms of their financial stability and future prospects because of this. And this is getting worse because of the pandemic. How can we stop this? How can we elevate women out of this financial instability and unfair division labour?

OK, tell us some some more about your amazing husbands doing all the dishes and how you hate cooking.

Yeah of course, it's all the fault of the silly women who married these lazy men, rather than a larger societal problem. All the women with amazing husbands who clean toilets etc, wouldn't stand for husbands who don't pull their weight in the home...

Blame the women as usual !

OP posts:

Egghead81 · 02/05/2021 15:46

It’s self imposed

Many more women are bothered by the state of their home than men.

It seems unfair to me that men are hauled over the coals for not being more involved in something that is really not a big deal to many of them.

When I was married, I did most of the housework. Why? I adored a clean and tidy home. So I went above and beyond. My husband at the time was ok with bare minimum, in fact he preferred it messy. So who was I to change him and who was he to change me?

AnneLovesGilbert · 02/05/2021 15:55

Right, so part of the problem is that you seem to think it’s amazing of a man to clean a toilet rather than something all adults do.

Watermelonsugar21 · 02/05/2021 15:55

I think it depends on your lifestyle as to what is acceptable. Myself and DP both work similar hours so share the housework. If however, I was to go part time or become a SAHM, it would make more sense for me to do the majority of the housework as I would have more time to do so.

lazylinguist · 02/05/2021 16:06

If however, I was to go part time or become a SAHM, it would make more sense for me to do the majority of the housework as I would have more time to do so.

Yes, but the trouble with this seemingly perfectly logical approach is that it fails to take into account that it still so very rarely happens the other way around. How often do fathers step back from their (perhaps very promising or valuable) careers to become SAHDs, take on virtually all the domestic load, only to find they are still doing it all years later, possibly alongside an undervalued and low-paid job for which they are overqualified?

Egghead81 · 02/05/2021 16:08

@AnneLovesGilbert

Right, so part of the problem is that you seem to think it’s amazing of a man to clean a toilet rather than something all adults do.

I’d want daily He wasn’t bothered so I did it

I was happy to drive in a rubbish heap of a car. He wasn’t. So he’d clean weekly whereas now I’m on my own.... if a twice yearly event!

Original poster

nonaomi · 02/05/2021 16:15

@AnneLovesGilbert no I don't. It was just an analogy. I think it's an adult responsibility, which a lot of men get away with not having been taught is THEIR responsibility. The same way women used to be taught that going out to work was not their responsibility ( but the man's responsibility ). I feel like now a lot of women are left with both responsibilities of going to work and housework / children. As this is how a lot of men are raised. A lot of the ones I seem to know anyway. The bulk of the burden of the home is on the woman's shoulders. And I think that's societal. It's not just the women's fault for ' putting up ' with it. I think it's deeper than that personally. But of course, if your DH is a lazy bastard, you should just leave and I get that. But it's a deeper thing in my opinion / experience. It might be just from my family ( some friends ) too. But it's always a joke that the husband is useless and doesn't do enough.

OP posts:

m0therofdragons · 02/05/2021 16:16

Not the case in my circle. We have one friend who is sahm and a martyr with her husband not knowing how the dyson works but the rest of us have a dh each who is equal. Dh and I hate cleaning so we have a cleaner. All my other mum friends other than the one sahm work ft so maybe that’s why.

Original poster

nonaomi · 02/05/2021 16:20

I have a cleaner twice a week. It still doesn't solve it in my house. It sounds like it solves it for a lot of posters here. But there's still a lot to do day to day, even if you have a cleaner.

OP posts:

m0therofdragons · 02/05/2021 16:20

I should add, dh’s mum has 2 sons and did everything for them until they left home. Week one of living together I did the clothes wash and folded dh’s stuff in a pile for him to put away and he saw the pile and asked if I wanted him to tell me where everything goes... my face clearly said fuck off without me uttering the words as he quickly back pedalled. We joke about it now (nearly 20 years later) so I guess I set my boundaries and expectations early.

I potty trained dd1 and Dh started dtds as everyone was laughing and commenting that he wouldn’t be able to. He was so pissed off and guess what? A dad is able to potty train twins with minimal accidents.