To say that your if daughter tells you she feels the same as Elliot Page

[Notagain20]

... To please explore all the reasons why she might feel intensely uncomfortable with her growing female body, and not just assume she's transgender?

There's such an epidemic of sexual assault, harassment and sexualised bullying towards girls of all ages. Kids are exposed to violent porn from the moment they can use a phone. Eating disorders are exploding, further evidence that hatred of bodies is rife among young people. Adolescence has always been a storm of hormones and emotions, girls have always discovered that their bodies are treated as public property but that is so much worse now.

If your daughter hates her female body please don't assume she's transgender. She might be, but it's far more likely that she is having a normal response to a really sexist society. She needs your help to discover how women throughout time have helped each other navigate this experience, looked after each other, and organised together to change things.

I agree with Moonsick. Radical feminism is the only way to overcome body dysmorphia. I strongly believe that our society is becoming more sexist and gendered, probably due to pervasive pornography.

@bonbonours

Yes the problem is, anyone who has teens knows that teenagers believe they know everything and parents know nothing. Any attempt to look at underlying reasons by me results in accusations of not being supportive, being transphobic, or not understanding. All of which results in the teen keeping as much as possible secret from their parent. So it's a very fine line to tread to keep a good parent-teen relationship while not jumping aboard the trans wagon.

Exhausting! But so worth all the balancing and tightrope walking. Lucky teens of parents who can manage it

It's worth repeating that nobody hates trans people. Nobody hates children who believe they're "in the wrong body". We are (mainly) women, mothers, parents and some of us work with children.
We are rightly challenging a narrative that encourages children to see their internal distress as being fixed by transitioning. And (as some posters have mentioned schools) those of us who work in education are challenging the way that adult led groups have been allowed to target schools and persuade the children in them that transitioning is the solution to their distress.

We don't allow other political groups to 'persuade' children of their ideologies. We insist on proportion and balance. Schools have been incredibly naive in enabling the narratives 'your parents are transphobic if they don't immediately affirm you', 'we can transition children in secret from their parents', let alone telling teachers they can keep disclosures from children confidential with no recourse to safeguarding guidelines. (All of these approaches can be found in various trans guidelines for schools)

Schools in the grip of this ideology need to start centring the child's needs, not the adult ideology and working with parents, not positioning them as the enemy.

@terfinginthevoid

The increasingly widespread belief that there is such a thing as ‘being genuinely trans’ is a major part of the problem. No one is ‘genuinely trans’, in the sense that no one is born in the wrong body.

Psychiatric illness is cultural. People who experience mental distress express it in culturally available ways. Once it was ‘believing you are made of glass’.

Young people in psychological distress can currently adopt ‘being trans’ as a culturally approved explanation and expression of their pain. And rather than receive appropriate psychological therapy to explore what is really going on, misguided psychologists and doctors are giving them hormones and surgery.

This

When I came out as bisexual when I was in my early 20s, I met a few trans people, and questioned whether I might be trans myself. The conclusion I came to, and I stick by it, is that if I could take a pill and wake up male tomorrow I might consider it, but not if it meant taking hormones and doing surgery to end up with a body that wasn't actually male anyway. I looked at it this way: if I am/was literally a bloke in a woman's body, like I just woke up in a woman's body, would my next thought be "I need surgery to sort this out?" Probably in that situation I would think, well, this is weird, but not so weird that I would necessarily prefer surgery to just... getting used to it?

I have never really learned to love my female body. I'm more resigned to it than anything else. But I'm 45 and I doubt that I am the only 45 year old that looks at their body in the mirror and thinks "oh well, you're healthy, that's the main thing." I am glad I didn't have to have any medical treatment. I look back and can now join the dots from my shitty childhood - my mother is horrible, emotionally and physically abusive to both me and my dad - and it doesn't take a genius to see that maybe I had very good reasons for not wanting to grow into a woman.

What worries me though, is how easy it seems to be to get treatment these days. I have a friend who is trans and back in the 90s when they were thinking about getting treatment, you had to live for 2 years "as the opposite gender" without hormones or anything, which means you would need to have a pretty thick skin, as in every encounter it would be clear you were not the sex you were presenting as. And attitudes weren't as tolerant to trans people in those days either. But it served a purpose. Appearance is the tip of the iceberg, but at least it forced people to confront some of the really drastic changes that transitioning would put them through. Now, it sounds as if it's got a lot easier, at least to get on puberty blockers, that "pause button" that actually usually is just the first step in going on to cross sex hormones. When you think how difficult it is as an adult woman just to get your GP to prescribe long term contraception, never mind sterilisation, it seems so messed up that taking a step like that, that can cause infertility, is open for young girls.

"She might be, but it's far more likely that she is having a normal response to a really sexist society. "

Pretty big claim. Any research to back that up?

My DD hates her boobs, but we all have big ones in my family, I’m teaching her body confidence... something my mother did to me

A reminder that 'The evidence for using puberty blocking drugs to treat young people struggling with their gender identity is "very low", an official review has found.'

www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-56601386

Elliott Page is old enough that the decision is theirs to make. However, like the entirety of the human race, they not of an age that means their judgement is infallible.
The prevailing view seems to be that each individual knows themselves entirely and fuck the opinion of everyone else. Any psychologist, social worker, counselor, teacher, probation officer and God knows how many others will be able to tell you that people do not necessarily make the best decisions for themselves. Not just split second, spur of the moment mistakes, but prolonged self destructive behaviour.

I sincerely hope that Elliott Page is happy with their transition and I sincerely hope they avoid peddling the lie that every teenage whim left unpandered will lead to dead children.

@LegoPoliceman

Elliott Page is old enough that the decision is theirs to make. However, like the entirety of the human race, they not of an age that means their judgement is infallible. The prevailing view seems to be that each individual knows themselves entirely and fuck the opinion of everyone else. Any psychologist, social worker, counselor, teacher, probation officer and God knows how many others will be able to tell you that people do not necessarily make the best decisions for themselves. Not just split second, spur of the moment mistakes, but prolonged self destructive behaviour.

I sincerely hope that Elliott Page is happy with their transition and I sincerely hope they avoid peddling the lie that every teenage whim left unpandered will lead to dead children.

I think the interview they released with Oprah seems to do just that

This journal article is probably relevant here.

journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/26344041211010777

Published April 22, 2021
Kasia Kozlowska, Georgia McClure et al

Australian children and adolescents with gender dysphoria: Clinical presentations and challenges experienced by a multidisciplinary team and gender service

From the conclusion:

Our findings indicate that engagement with families, a trauma-informed model of mental health care, and ongoing discourse pertaining to the effects of unresolved trauma and loss need to be part of all gender dysphoria clinics and the services with which they collaborate. Because of their impact on subjective well-being and the development of the self, specific loss and trauma events present crucial opportunities for both long-term psychotherapy and more immediate, targeted treatments. The move to a more comprehensive, holistic model of care—one that takes into account the individual’s developmental history and the experiences that make up that history—has also been echoed in the work of other clinician-researchers (D’Angelo, 2020a; Entwistle, 2019; Giovanardi et al., 2018; Kozlowska et al., 2021; Williamson, 2019).

Eliot Page is an adult, but having watched part of the Oprah interview, I have some doubts as to whether they are currently in the best place emotionally to make irreversible decisions.
I don't 'hate' them, or any other trans people, but I am not convinced that medical/surgical transition is the answer they are looking for.

@BanginChoons

Have you ever cared for a teenager? Do you know how being a teenager in this toxic, sexist, lesbophobic society affects girls?

Yes, I have a teen who identifies as trans.

I was that kid who took a male name as a small child, I was that kid who developed an ED during puberty (which delayed it) and who has had a lifetime of questioning gender and sex.

I have more experience than you, because I've lived it, and so I repeat that it's trite, useless sloganeering, and of absolutely no help to your child at all.

Listen to them, not just to their loud declarations, but also to what is going on all around them, to the pressures they are put under, to the sort of lives that women are forced to live, and that they may wish (understandably) to escape.

It's worth repeating that nobody hates trans people. Nobody hates children who believe they're "in the wrong body". We are (mainly) women, mothers, parents and some of us work with children.

And many of us on these boards have been that child, though the language has changed. I feel lucky to be old, and to have had neglectful parents, because if I'd been born decades later and in a less chaotic household, I'd have been marched down the Tavistock pronto. I know many, many other gender critical women who have experienced similar.

Me too. I'm male (ie xy chromosomes) and I felt a lot of angst when growing up about how I didn't seem like a proper boy.

It sucked at the time, but I'm so glad I had the freedom to figure out that I was male anyway without needing anyone's permission. Now I'm a happy enough, married father and how 'manly' I am isn't something I give any thought to.

If I was growing up now I imagine some well-meaning fool would be recommending me to the Tavistock and setting me up for a lifetime of confusion just because I didn't comform to some arbitrary gender norms.

Listen to them, not just to their loud declarations, but also to what is going on all around them, to the pressures they are put under, to the sort of lives that women are forced to live, and that they may wish (understandably) to escape.

That's a very insightful point, ArcheryAnnie.

Worth considering that sometimes it's hard for children and young people to analyse their feelings, the cause, impact and context of them. Sometimes they skew them onto something that is more visible and easier to solidify in the mind - see the child fighting over the wrong spoon at breakfast, when in reality they may be dealing with - well, any amount of things - hunger, rejection, fear of abandonment, etc.

In fact, it's not just children, is it? We all do this to an extent. It's like the psychological McGuffin.

I think it would need a lot more exploration with the teen because quite simply, they don't get to choose whether they are a girl or not. Biology is biology. They can dress and act a certain way if that makes them feel better.

It’s easier for someone to attempt to shut down discussion by crying the word “hate!!!!” than to have a sensible discussion about the fact that more and more young people are presenting with sudden onset gender dysphoria - especially when many of us can see it happening with our own eyes amongst our children’s friend groups as a trend. My daughter was told at her school by a group of twelve year old girls ALL identifying as gay men - that being “cis het” was “evil” - we moved house and when she got to the new school, three of the girls in her new class are now claiming to be male as is a friend’s gang of girls from the year above. These girls are encouraging each other to buy breast binders.
To question this is hate? Nonsense. To not question it is neglect. This generation of young people are going to be looking at us as parents and asking why we didn’t see what was going on and protect them.
Hate isn’t safeguarding.

Let’s not forget the high number of autistic children who are now identifying as trans - this is a wide scale scandal that is being celebrated and encouraged by the Guardian and the BBC - both hard selling the idea that children are born in the wrong body and misrepresenting suicide statistics and the safety of puberty blockers.

@Wandawomble completely agree 💯

What a master stroke the patriarchy has set up for us - using our own liberalism and desire not to be 'hateful' to make women abandon their own identities and allow men to redefine what womanhood is.

@Notagain20

... To please explore all the reasons why she might feel intensely uncomfortable with her growing female body, and not just assume she's transgender?

There's such an epidemic of sexual assault, harassment and sexualised bullying towards girls of all ages. Kids are exposed to violent porn from the moment they can use a phone. Eating disorders are exploding, further evidence that hatred of bodies is rife among young people. Adolescence has always been a storm of hormones and emotions, girls have always discovered that their bodies are treated as public property but that is so much worse now.

If your daughter hates her female body please don't assume she's transgender. She might be, but it's far more likely that she is having a normal response to a really sexist society. She needs your help to discover how women throughout time have helped each other navigate this experience, looked after each other, and organised together to change things.

'Yyour daughter hates her female body please don't assume she's transgender. She might be, but it's far more likely that she is having a normal response to a really sexist society. She needs your help to discover how women throughout time have helped each other navigate this experience, looked after each other, and organised together to change things.:

Please don't take on board this self indulgent, ignorant advice.

Wait, it’s self indulgent to encourage girls to understand their own history and power as females but it’s NOT self indulgent to agree with and affirm negative self image statements where a child thinks they are born in the wrong body?

Right....

@Wandawomble

Wait, it’s self indulgent to encourage girls to understand their own history and power as females but it’s NOT self indulgent to agree with and affirm negative self image statements where a child thinks they are born in the wrong body?

Right....

It's self indulgent to try and tell children we have all been through it.

I think it's self indulgent to tell teenagers that this new era of us redefining girlhood and medicalising discomfort and dysphoria is the 'right' way of thinking about it. This is a very new experiment and a very new trend.

@Yorkshirelass04

I think it's self indulgent to tell teenagers that this new era of us redefining girlhood and medicalising discomfort and dysphoria is the 'right' way of thinking about it. This is a very new experiment and a very new trend.

But it isn't self indulgent.

It's being respectful of their views without telling them that it's the exact same as your struggles in a sexist society.