Year 1 child had accident at school and they had no spare clothes - AIBU?

[ArtemisFlop]

I'd appreciate views about this as I'm turning it over in my mind and feel really uncomfortable (cross!)
DD in year 1 had an accident at school on Thursday, apparently not long before pick up time. This hasn't happened in year 1 before, pretty unusual for DD. In reception we took spare clothes to school but hadn't thought of it when we went back to school after the last lockdown ending in March. After-school nanny called me at work sounding quite worried and said she didn't know what to do as she has been due to take the kids to older child's activity but the TA had handed DD over to her in the playground at pick up time and DD was absolutely soaked. Nanny asked TA if they'd got some spare clothes so she could change her before coming home and TA said they don't have spare clothes and would usually just call a parent and ask them to come in with some but as it had happened so close to pick up they didn't think there'd be time. Nanny ended up bringing both kids straight home so DD could change but we live 30 minutes walk or a 15 minute bus ride from school so DD was wet through all that time plus however long it was before end of the school day that she wet herself. Nanny also told me the conversation about this took place in front of a bunch of DD's classmates and other parents. She said she felt like they just couldn't wait to hand over DD so it was someone else's problem.
I saw the TA in the playground the next day whilst handing over spare clothes for DD which I'll ask them to keep on her leg in case of any further incidents. I told her I was very surprised and disappointed they hadn't been able to offer a change of clothes. T A was apologetic but kept saying 'but I expected to see you shortly' as if the problem had been that nanny picked up and not me. I told her whether it was me or the nanny DD would have the same journey home. But the TA just said they don't have clothes for children and mumbled something about COViD. Have since received an email from the class teacher basically saying the same thing (ie sorry, not sorry).
For info this is a very large primary with a wide catchment and so there'll be many other families who don't live on the doorstep.
AIBU or should primary schools have a change of clothes for the occasional accidents and not leave children in wet clothes until parents arrive?

I think covid means schools can’t provide spares now.

But don’t most kids have a PE kit or a spare set of clothes? Lots of yr 1 kids have accidents, spill drinks, fall into puddles etc.

I’d also expect the nanny to carry spare clothes as they have a long journey home.

They should have called so you or the nanny could bring some to pick up. It would have taken 2 minutes.

Do you work in a school?
Because in most schools it isn't a 2 minute job to call a parent.

First you need someone to cover your class so you can go to the office, or you need to send a responsible child with a note, that you need to quickly write, to the office. At present this is trickier as it needs to be someone from the correct bubble, though we do sometimes have to break this for emergencies despite it not being in the lea risk assessment.
Then when at office you need to look through the files or log into,sims to find the contact number.
Then call the first contact.
In this case it wouldn't have been the first contact who was collecting, so then either that person or school have to contact the correct contact to speak to them.
As it's pick up time the chances of not being answered is very high in my experience, so another delay.

The office may be next door or it may be upstairs, across the schools or via the playground depending on school office and class layout/locations.

I'm the meantime said parent could have already arrived.

The op did say it happened just before pick up. This is a very busy time in primary schools, especially under the covid guidelines we are being told to work under.

I'm a TA in year 2 and we keep some spares. We put the wet clothes into a plastic bag and send a note home saying your child had an accident and we supplied pants/trousers/whatever with a request to wash and return. They always do in my experience.

They should of called you. Recently my DC hurt themselves close to the end of the day and I was called and given the heads up with the option of collecting slightly early. It being close to the end of the day isn't an excuse not to make contact and give a heads up.

Also I'v never seen a child handed over wet, always in spare clothes. That's really horrible and degrading to the child.

@AccidentallyOnPurpose and @year5teacher totally agree with you both. This is a problem which is bound to come up and it is well within the wit of a school to have a policy to deal with it.

The PTA or the school newsletter could easily ask parents to donate uniform they no longer need/return things borrowed.

I have always donated spare pants (those in very decent state!) and uniform and there's always been a good stock at school. They sell it for 50p/£1 to raise money and have lots spare for accidents.

I always send 2 sets of spares daily with DS anyway as he has wee incontinence so I suppose I have always had spare clothes on my radar more than most.

There are many seemingly insurmountable problems in the world but surely this isn't one of them....

Just a quick derail...
My dd (8) lives in shorts.
She has plenty of dresses, skirts and trousers, but her default style is shorts.
She was wearing shorts to school during lockdown (I am key worker).
Head saw her in shorts and thought she would be cold. He found a pair of joggers in the lost property and gave them to dd.
Said she could wear them if she was cold.
Dd said thank you.
She wore them after lunch as her shorts were muddy.
She had folded the legs up past her knees, in to shorts.
She also had "an accident" in year 1.
School gave her a food that she has an allergy to. About half an hour after lunch; there was poop everywhere.
They gave her clean pants, but they didnt do much of a job cleaning her up.
As soon as they opened the door for me to collect her, I got the overpowering smell of "allergy poo"
I think she was in a dress that day, so she only needed undies

I think you missed the ENTIRE point of my post which had nothing to do with why they need changing and entirely to do with the fact a school cannot be expected to have spare clothes that fit every child.

My DS school has 240 pupils all wildly different shapes/sizes (even within the same age group) weather piss or rain or periods or anything else its not unusual the school dont have a hundred of pairs of trouses in different sizes to fit all the children and its wildly insane to expect it.

@mam0918

I think you missed the ENTIRE point of my post which had nothing to do with why they need changing and entirely to do with the fact a school cannot be expected to have spare clothes that fit every child.

My DS school has 240 pupils all wildly different shapes/sizes (even within the same age group) weather piss or rain or periods or anything else its not unusual the school dont have a hundred of pairs of trouses in different sizes to fit all the children and its wildly insane to expect it.

Which is why elastic waisted, loose fabric joggers are a blessing!

[quote Jellybabiesforbreakfast]@Sbk28. Seriously, it is not ok to let a urine-soaked child sit on seats that are going to be used by other people without being deep-cleaned. So at the very least, you'd need to alert the taxi driver or the bus driver so they could arrange for their vehicle to be cleaned after you've been in it.[/quote]
In a taxi, you would probably be charged for the cleaning. Piss is piss, regardless of who it came from.

Do you work in a school?Because in most schools it isn't a 2 minute job to call a parent.
Abraxan Schools are doing an epic job at the moment, superb even but it's still not okay for a child to be in clothes where they wet themselves for any amount of time. Sure it would have been really difficult but it had to be done- change the child or phone immediately

YABU We don't have spare clothes for year 1 children.

I would have rang no matter how close to home time it was to see if you could have brought a change of clothes with you though.

Which is why elastic waisted, loose fabric joggers are a blessing!

Well exactly! In those circumstances the clothes don’t have to be a perfect fit; a saggy waistband, loose or tight undies or too short trousers is far preferable to being soaked in urine.

I’m so grateful for the staff at my children’s school, who from what I know of them, would have sufficient compassion and initiative to try and find a solution instead of handing the child over with a shrug “because Covid”.

Surely that's a lack of basic 'duty of care'. If they don't have / aren't allowed spare clothes anymore than surely every parent should be advised to have a spare set in school? Accidents happen, even none toileting related, that require a change of clothes.

Parents shouldn't need " advising" to send in a spare set of clothes, it should be common sense.

I work in a primary school. What happened to your daughter is very unfortunate, but sadly we can't magic spare clothes out of thin air.

Parents generally are advised, however out of our 80 primary 1's only one actually brings them and that was after being asked on several occasions and several sets of school provided clothing. We can't go to their houses and pack their bags for them.

I think covid means schools can’t provide spares now.

There is nothing about Covid that means schools cannot keep a stock of donated clothes in case of accidents. Any policy that precludes it needs reviewing.

sadly we can't magic spare clothes out of thin air.

Schools can keep stocks of donated clothes for emergencies.

School staff can call parents and suggest they bring something for children to change into that's fit to wear home and wrap/clothe the child in something else until they arrive.

School staff can make sure that they preserve children's dignity by having conversations aware from their peers and other parents.

School staff can offer to space and time to facilitate a parent or nanny aquiring suitable dry clothing for the child to wear to go home.

There is no excuse for what happened.

School staff can call parents and suggest they bring something for children to change into that's fit to wear home and wrap/clothe the child in something else until they arrive.

And this is normally what happens but on this occasion it was directly before the end of the day so parent/carer would already have left and be arriving at the school.

There is nothing about Covid that means schools cannot keep a stock of donated clothes in case of accidents. Any policy that precludes it needs reviewing.

This isn't an issue for us, our issue is that we currently have none left, how wet those that have that policy it's likely to be set at LA level. Sadly though parents aren't allowed in the school building at all, that's pretty universal, so the setting aside time and space for the nanny to change the dc wouldn't be possible. Of course the staff could have assisted but if there were no clothes there were no clothes. It was just extremely unfortunate timing. If the child had had the accident 10 minutes later after she'd been collected she'd have still had to take the dc home wet to change her.

If the child had had the accident 10 minutes later after she'd been collected she'd have still had to take the dc home wet to change her.

That doesn't preclude the staff from taking responsibility for something that happened when the child was in their care. They were responsible for her when it happened and they did not act appropriately.

There is no excuse for the way this child was treated.

@Loopylobes

All of that is great in theory. And if I had spare staff hanging around to do these things it would be great.

How do you suggest I have a private chat with a parent when I'm dismissing 30 children who are standing with me and then I have to take anyone who hasn't been collected the the office?

I agree that it's unacceptable but schools are doing their best, particularly at the moment.

I

There is nothing about Covid that means schools cannot keep a stock of donated clothes in case of accidents. Any policy that precludes it needs reviewing.

Again the stock issue. And if there aren't any? Or they were in use /not returned. How exactly does this stock replenish itself?

Before Covid we had loads of spare PE kits. Sometimes We'd have to hand out 4 or 5. We could also go to other classes and borrow from them. Some kids, particularly girls had extra in their bag and more than willing to share.

They're all gone. I have no idea where. For more than half a year the spare clothes cupboards have been turned around and pushed against the wall so there would be no access to them.

I'm not saying the school is right or that their policies shouldn't be reviewed and whatever the issues that caused this shouldn't be looked at. I just don't think it's necessarily the TA's or teachers responsibility and fault, particularly if it goes against school policy.

I think it is exceptionally odd that schools have no spare clothes, but understand I don't know the ins and outs of all schools etc. I work in year one and there is no way I would send a child home in that state. Luckily we do have spare clothes in our medical room. I think it is good practice to have some really even in covid times. Poor child.

Again the stock issue. And if there aren't any?

That's a different issue. People are claiming that Covid risk assessments are the issue. They shouldn't be.

@stayathomer

Do you work in a school?Because in most schools it isn't a 2 minute job to call a parent. Abraxan Schools are doing an epic job at the moment, superb even but it's still not okay for a child to be in clothes where they wet themselves for any amount of time. Sure it would have been really difficult but it had to be done- change the child or phone immediately

It really isn't always that simple and sometimes it does have to wait.

At the end of the day we can't leave the class on their own so need to have cover. At pick up time, when this incident happened, we don't usually have spare staff on hand. So phoning isn't likely in the last few minutes of the day, just before pick up. It's also, in my experience of working in primary for a long time, almost always pointless calling at this time as parents have already left home and often don't answer as they are driving, on the bus or almost at school anyway.

Equally we can't just leave the rest of the class during pick up to change said child.

It really may be a logistics issue due to it happen just before pick up time.

Personally I'd have left the child in the classroom, dismissed the other children, spoken to the child's carer and then dealt with the child as soon as I was able to safely (safely referring to the whole class of children I was in charge of.) I could then have taken the child to our spare clothes area for them to change before leaving. The clothes may not be the right size of gender but they'd be what we have left.

If the child had clothes on their peg or in their bag I'd simply send them to the toilets to change themselves there and then, if they were able. Otherwise I'd try to facilitate them in the class whilst understanding they may prefer to wait until the rest of the class weren't present.

I'd hope the carer or parent was understanding enough to understand the logistical issues at this very just end of day time. I'd still offer to get then changed and believe that's what this TA should have done. However it may have to wait. Fortunately waiting to change for 15 minutes or so won't damage the child, especially if just wet rather than soiled.

@AccidentallyOnPurpose

There is nothing about Covid that means schools cannot keep a stock of donated clothes in case of accidents. Any policy that precludes it needs reviewing.

Again the stock issue. And if there aren't any? Or they were in use /not returned. How exactly does this stock replenish itself?

Before Covid we had loads of spare PE kits. Sometimes We'd have to hand out 4 or 5. We could also go to other classes and borrow from them. Some kids, particularly girls had extra in their bag and more than willing to share.

They're all gone. I have no idea where. For more than half a year the spare clothes cupboards have been turned around and pushed against the wall so there would be no access to them.

I'm not saying the school is right or that their policies shouldn't be reviewed and whatever the issues that caused this shouldn't be looked at. I just don't think it's necessarily the TA's or teachers responsibility and fault, particularly if it goes against school policy.

I think the stock should be replaced in whatever way your school can manage. If worried about covid on stuff coming in from outside our school have a washer drier to solve that issue. It is something I would expect to be sorted out one way or another.