My daughter does not want to go to grammar

[Scarletbutnotohara]

This is my first post and this group was recommended to me by a friend as an anonymous place to post rather than ask on Facebook!
She also told me to post in this section, not sure why but hope I’m doing it right!!
My daughter is in year 6 and will be going to secondary school in September.
She has got a place at a top grammar school. This was something she had wanted since year 4 after we started looking at schools to think ahead. We looked at schools as suggested by her school as to what would suit our daughter.
She loved the grammar and worked even harder to work towards the 11+, which she passed and consequently was offered a place at her first choice school.
In the last month she has made it very clear that she has changed her mind and doesn’t want to go there now.
I know she’s being influenced by her other friends at school who are mostly carrying on in indie schools and have told her many a story about this grammar.
My daughters happiness comes first of course, but I’m at a loss at what to do. Our financial situation has changed dramatically due to covid, and to continue in another indie school would mean some serious cutbacks. It’s possible, but it will be very hard. I feel guilty that I really want her to just be happy with the grammar school, but also guilty that I’m not offering her other options- I don’t know what the options are if I’m honest. Places have been offered. We could make the cutbacks and try and find a school for her that still has places.
We could send her to the local comprehensive school. That school does have places, but it also has a terrible reputation, the ofsted is ‘requires improvement’ and it’s well known in our area for being ‘bad.’ The children there stand outside smoking and a few times I’ve walked past, I’ve seen spitting, swearing and general bad behaviour. On top of that, the school has a high turnover of staff.
I’ve asked my daughter what she actually wants to do and where does she want to go. She says ‘anywhere but the grammar.’
Any advice please?
Am I being unfair to insist she tries out the grammar school and say if it doesn’t work out after a term, we can reconsider?
Is another 7 years of school fees Worth having to sell our second property that we currently rent out? (I Would feel awful for our amazing tenants- a lovely family)
Other good state schools are full with long waiting lists and they are nowhere near us. If she is worried about bullying at the grammar, I can’t consider out local comp as I’m sure it would be worse there!!
All advice welcome and Thankyou

My dd is in a grammar school in y7 so I have some experience here.
If it were me, I would continue with the grammar choice and talk to my daughter about why the friends might be filing her head with this nonsense. I would find all the good bits about the school from website to you tube videos on extra curricular things (past performances for example)
I might even contact the school and get the head of y7 to have a chat with her.
Show her pictures and talk about all the things she loved about the school before.
You are the parent here and she is too young and inexperienced in life to know what’s best for her long term. You know her best and ultimately are best placed to make this decision on her behalf.
She has no basis for changing her mind except hearsay from friends and personally I wouldn’t want the life lesson to be ‘it’s fine to flake out and give up on something because of what others think’ Pulling out now after this is what she wanted and worked for without real basis is actually a very bad life lesson

I think this is down to two main issues. Firstly is the cost of continuing at the current school. The second is finding out exactly why she has changed her mind.

If the cost makes it non negotiable (even if you can afford it but prefer not to pay) then that is the deciding factor.

And also...guilt is a wasted emotion as a parent. You do what is best at the time.

Go with your gut op. I agree guilt is a wasted emotion, you have much more of an overview. You will choose the best outcome for your family... you dd will make friends wherever she is

She’s your child. You dictate what she does

What specifically is she doesn’t want to do about the grammar? What stories has she been told? Is she feeling the odd one out at moving school and are they being snobby about the grammar? Reassure her about the grammars good reputation etc and they’re just making trouble. Maybe she’s just feeling nervous at the end of school approaches.

I think you should continue with the grammar. Tell her that she is going until Christmas, and then you can re-consider. If she doesn’t like it, then she can go to local comp. it’s a lot easier doing it that way around, then from comp to grammar.

Continue with the grammar, and don't make any decisions until Easter. First terms somewhere new can be difficult no matter what. You know best.

So, you sure considering selling a property and sacrificing your retirement money because your daughter's friends are giving her last minute wobbles? No way! I would say that she has to try the grammar for at least 6-12 months. Friendships tend to change a lot in early to middle secondary - she probably wouldn't be friends with them in a few years, even if she did stay at school with those friends.

The children there stand outside smoking and a few times I’ve walked past, I’ve seen spitting, swearing and general bad behaviour

Somehow I doubt that.

If she doesn't want to go then fgs don't send her, she needs to be at a school where she is happy and wants to be there. I had one with a scholarship place but they pleaded not to go so went to the local comp. instead where they did well academically and socially because it was where they wanted to be.

Thank you all. This is keeping me awake at night worrying what to do for the best.
She is our only child and we’ve tried to give her what we didn’t have ourselves. But in that respect, we feel a bit out of our depth. We’ve had a meeting with the school (her current school) and they were actually amazing with her, reminding her of all the reasons she chose it and we all thought it was a good fit for her. She’s very outgoing and sociable, but her prep school is fairly small. So many of her hobbies are outside of school - sporty but not one sport in particular that she excels at. She plays tennis, football and goes to an athletics club and gymnastics.
She thrives surrounded by lots of children. In hindsight, the local primary school would have probably suited her well. It’s bigger and has more clubs than the school we thought would be ‘giving her what we didn’t have.’
She loves to try new things- completely random sometimes.
Basically, the grammar school has great facilities, a huge selection of clubs to join and obviously the chance to make lots of friends and not get bored!
She also thrives under pressure. She likes to be pushed and challenged. Enjoys tests and exams (I honestly cannot relate there) She is a bit of an all rounder. Doesn’t excel in one particular area. She just thoroughly enjoys her many hobbies, gives everything her very best and more, and academically she is very much the same. Very independent and self motivated and has been from around year 4. So we were all in agreement, that was the route to go down. The other schools her friends are going to attend when they leave are great schools. But they’re also quite small, and being a part of larger classes and making lots of new friends was something she was very much looking forward to.
We think she’s not completely telling us all the things her friends have said. She said in the meeting she’s heard some awful bullying happens there- one incident she says a girl had her hair cut off by someone sat behind her. She’s heard that the teachers publicly shame you if you are at the ‘bottom’ of the class, that punishments are dished out unfairly and the exclusion room or isolation room is used a lot by harsh teachers. Drugs are apparently ‘rife’ and if you don’t smoke weed, you will be seen as weak. And other such things that sound absolutely ridiculous but to her they are very real issues. It’s all ‘my friends friend went there and....’

It's either the grammar or the crappy state school.
I'd not be entering into a debate with her about an independent school.
That's not financially going to work. Like hell would I be selling property to send a kid who hasn't even tried the school out, to a fee relative strangers paying school.

She'll be surrounded by other children in the same boat. She'll make friends. It'll be character building and a useful life skill to realise that the world doesn't revolve around her.
She hasn't even tried the school.
I'd not be saying 'just give it a little try... we can look into changing if you don't fancy it later'.
What incentive is that to work hard and settle in, she might just arse around for a year and say she tried and now can she move, wasting a year of education.
I'd be really firm.
Say you are attending the grammar, you've worked hard to get in and we expect you to continue to work as expected. You don't get to mess about and if you do then you'll lose priveledges such as screen time etc until you are back to full effort.

My eldest tried something very similar to this, decided they didn't really like school, thought if they behaved poorly they might get to leave and stay home with mummy and be home schooled. [I soon let them have some home truths about what that would look like and they decided it sounded pretty awful and started to sort themselves out.
Kids are just very closed in their thinking, they don't see much past their own tiny bubble.
She'll be ok.

Stick with the grammar

Stick with the grammar.

She liked it enough on visits and worked hard to get in. What has changed in the meantime? Her friends are most likely filling her head with stories. Or maybe she is afraid of the change, but change is inevitable when the time comes to transition from one stage of schooling to the next.

The bit I said about smoking and swearing etc, is at the local school. They obviously do not all stand there smoking and being awful. And I know they won’t be doing any of those things inside the school itself. I went to a comprehensive myself. I’m not well educated and my parents couldn’t afford any clubs or trips etc. We only had one child so we could give her everything we didn’t have ourselves. But I do feel out of my depth with it all. I personally feel - and I could be wrong - that the possible schools she could go to- independent schools, actually offer less than the grammar school would. Even if money was not the issue, I’m not convinced they would offer her a better education or extra curricular activities. She’s very sociable as I said, and her clubs are mostly outside of school and she’s easily made friends with others. She isn’t an anxious child. It seems to be in her head now that bullying is completely inevitable if she goes to the grammar school, but there seems to be no truth to these tales.

My husband thinks it’s just a normal wobble over moving up. That a couple of years ago, it was somewhere she wanted to go when she was older. Now she is older, and the transition is scaring her. Although she is very confident and has never been anxious or timid, he thinks this might be something that many children experience leaving the only place they’ve known and the big change that’s imminent.

Hello, no experience of independents but my daughter is in year 8 of grammar. We moved house in year 6 also,so she went knowing no-one as all primary friends went local to where we used to live. She has however settled really well and is not a child who particularly makes new friends easily. There was a summer school option for a week in the summer holidays before she started which I think really helped. All schools are quite hot on clamping down on bullying, some obviously better than others, but I'm sure you could raise this before she starts. Personally I think a grammar will offer her a good social mix with motivated bright kids-she's earned her place so please don't drop it for the "local comp" because she's got these worries from listening to other kids.

There will be bullying, smoking and swearing at all secondary schools.

Could her friends be envious that she has been offered a place at a grammar and that is why they are being negative about it?

I’d stick with the grammar.

She’s 11. This isn’t a decision she needs to make.

@MarthaGinyard

The children there stand outside smoking and a few times I’ve walked past, I’ve seen spitting, swearing and general bad behaviour

Somehow I doubt that.

Seriously?? Come round my way, I’ll show you more than one school like this.

@Scarletbutnotohara

My husband thinks it’s just a normal wobble over moving up. That a couple of years ago, it was somewhere she wanted to go when she was older. Now she is older, and the transition is scaring her. Although she is very confident and has never been anxious or timid, he thinks this might be something that many children experience leaving the only place they’ve known and the big change that’s imminent.

I'd agree with him. Social dynamics at year 6 could be making her feel left out and insecure about taking a different path. Just keep emphasising positives about moving and she will make new friends. Hopefully the grammar will send more details of induction etc soon.

If you can’t afford the independent you can’t afford the independent. Their fees tend to hike a ridiculous amount year on year too, what will happen in 2/3 years if this has happened and you REALLY can’t afford it despite lots of cut backs?
Just stick with the grammar
She’ll claim to hate it for a few weeks I’m sure but will quickly settle

Normal wobble and made worse by these frenemies. Any decent friend would encourage others about the process of moving schools not intentionally try and scare them.
I had nightmares before joining my grammar and they were gone literally the first day I started. My sister tried the exact same tactics as your daughter and my parents didn't back down and she was fine and thankful for them guiding her appropriately. You're the parent here.

My DC are in independent schools. I doubt the grammar has any different problems with bullying and drugs than the independent sector. So there will be stories about all schools including the ones her friends are going to.
Do not commit to school fees you can’t really afford when you have a good alternative. Fees only ever go up!
Some independent schools will allow 12 & 13+ entry so you could always consider moving her if she really doesn’t settle.

It’s more than likely a wobble and I think you should tell her that it’s too late to apply to different schools now so she is going to go to the grammar.

Tell her indie is out of the question - you can't afford it.

Tell her her 'friends' don't know what they are talking about. In y6 it is quite common for pupils to put down the other schools and to big their one up.

Contact the grammar and ask if they are planning any transition days this year. If you know anyone with a child currently at the grammar then ask them / their child to talk to yours. (Or ask the school if they can put you in touch with another local family).

Tell her that if it turns out to be as awful as she thinks after a year you would consider moving her, but it still wouldn't be to an indie.